Geko 201

"Flat Earth Society" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Strongly favouring the Geko 201, any good arguments why I
should/shouldn't purchase one as my first GPS?

I looked at the Geko (301) and decided not to get it for the following
reasons;

AAA batteries (all my portable power is based on AA batteries)
Didn't like the screen (size was acceptable, but quality a bit poor for bad
conditions)

Just my two penneth

Clive

In article <[email hidden]>, Flat Earth
Society <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Strongly favouring the Geko 201, any good arguments why I
should/shouldn't purchase one as my first GPS?

I recently bought a 201. I already have several Garmins (GPS38, GPS12,
eTrex, eMap) but the small size of the 201 impressed me and it is now
the tool of choice for most outings. The fact that is takes the same
batteries as my headtorch (Petzl Tikka) is a plus and carrying spare
AAAs is trivial.

Some folk might suggest you need a unit with mapping capabilities but
having used the maps in my eMap (including the topo maps in the USA) I
don't agree. Sure the maps are nice (and very hand for road nav) but
they are not very useful in the hills. I found with the topo maps that
they would help relate to the paper map more quickly but the small
screen size means you either have a very small area displayed or you
have to zoom out and loose detail.

Modern units have twice the resolution of the eMap screen (though a
similar size) and 256 colours instead of 4 level grey scale but I still
do not feel they are that much better in this respect.

When I look as a paper map I can quickly and easily scan an area of
several km around my point of interest. That is simply not achievable
without a large, high resolution display which would be too large for a
portable device like a hand held GPS. So although they are nice and can
be useful I don't think that the current offerings in mapping units are
worth the extra cash for use off the roads.

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

I've got a 301 myself and it's working well for me. Good rechargeable AAA
Nimhs are becoming increasingly available at reasonable prices. The AAA's
may not last as long as AAs in other GPS units but they are so light that
carrying spare ones is no hardship. The Geko 301 has a better weight/battery
lifespan ratio than the Etrex range and the Geko 201 will be even better.
That ratio only improves when you add in spare batteries to the calculation.

Cheers, Jiffy

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Flat Earth Society <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Strongly favouring the Geko 201, any good arguments why I
should/shouldn't purchase one as my first GPS?

The screen is a bit smaller than the Etrex, iirc. And the patch antenna
is probably every bit as useless under trees as the Etrex one is. Apart
from that, nope - and it certainly is light. 8>.

I assume you also considered the Etrex, and the Magellan Sportrak models
(the Magellan has a better antenna by all accounts, if you walk in
forests a lot .. but a really rather tacky computer connection design).

One hopes you were not influenced by the tacky computer games
(personally they put me off the Geko .. looks like a fisher-price toy!).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

I have not regretted buying a Geko 201 for UK walking. I use 750mA NiMh
rechargables which give about 7hrs, so I carry a spare set as well. Set the
battery type to Alkaline to get the longest use.

For carrying I use a Berghaus "Multi-tool" case which fits it perfectly. It
comes with a plastic clip for 1" webbing which can be rotated through 90 deg
so you can position it on your rucksack shoulder strap. I have mine facing
up/forward at 45 deg for easy access (with one hand) whilst still giving a
good view of the sky. I have not had any problems with false button presses
which can be a problem if you put it in a pocket.

To get the most out of it you will want some PC software. I use Tracklogs
which works well for me. They are a UK company and seem quite responsive to
suggestions, and upgrade the software frequently.

John

"Flat Earth Society" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Strongly favouring the Geko 201, any good arguments why I
should/shouldn't purchase one as my first GPS?

"Flat Earth Society" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Strongly favouring the Geko 201, any good arguments why I
should/shouldn't purchase one as my first GPS?

I bought one last year. I think it is very good. Its small size makes it very
easy to carry with you. I use rechargeable NiMH batteries, and I take a spare
set with me if I intend to keep the unit on all the time.

It also works quite well on the dashboard of my car. It gets enough signal
without an external aerial, and does not slide around to much.

What it will not do is work under trees.

Michael Chare

Michael Chare said:

What it will not do is work under trees.

Have you tried turning battery save off?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

I assume you also considered the Etrex, and the Magellan Sportrak models
(the Magellan has a better antenna by all accounts, if you walk in
forests a lot .. but a really rather tacky computer connection design).

The Magellans have their faults, but I think the computer connection is
one of the better aspects. This is because I found the equivalent
connector on an eMap a complete disaster when used for power (and
sometimes data) connection in a car - it constantly fell off and
the wire is always in the way. The eTrex and possibly Geko use the
same connector, though perhaps not mounted in such a stupid place.
This is one of the most important reasons why I rejected a Garmin ..
fortunately, it appears that the recent models (60c etc) have ditched
it.

The Magellan connector isn't very quick to attach for PC use, but
for car use it's great : the wire comes out in a sensible direction
and the connector never falls off. If you use a car mount it's
even better - the connector is clipped to the mount and automatically
connects to the GPS when it's placed into the mount. If you find
desktop use too awkward, you can always buy another car mount
(they're about 12 quid) and have the same quick-connect advantage.

If you're stuck with a small Garmin, the best bet is a Pfranc
low-profile connector. These are both cheaper and smaller than
the Garmin cable.

-adrian

In article <[email hidden]>, Adrian Godwin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

I assume you also considered the Etrex, and the Magellan Sportrak models
(the Magellan has a better antenna by all accounts, if you walk in
forests a lot .. but a really rather tacky computer connection design).

The Magellans have their faults, but I think the computer connection is
one of the better aspects. This is because I found the equivalent
connector on an eMap a complete disaster when used for power (and
sometimes data) connection in a car - it constantly fell off and
the wire is always in the way.

Strange. I have been using my eMap in the car with a Garmin power lead
for 3 or 4 years and don't recall the connector ever coming off
accidentally. I wonder if your eMap had suffered some damage in the area
of the connector - tab(s) at the side bent, broken or worn?

Quoted message said:

The eTrex and possibly Geko use the
same connector,

They both do.

Quoted message said:

though perhaps not mounted in such a stupid place.

They are connected at the other end - behind the antenna. Again I have
had no problems with my Garmin serial or power cables on my eTrex or
more recently my Geko 201.

Quoted message said:

This is one of the most important reasons why I rejected a Garmin ..

Sounds more like a problem unit / cable to me.

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Chare said:

What it will not do is work under trees.

Have you tried turning battery save off?

Yes, I usually use WAAS mode in the hope that EGNOS will start working.

Even without WAAS I have realised that especially without a romer/roamer the
main limitation in determining my position on a map (1:25000) was my inability
to judge where in a 1km square a particular grid reference is located.

Michael Chare

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:46:08 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Chare"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| news:[email hidden]...
| > Michael Chare wrote:
| >
| > > What it will not do is work under trees.
| >
| > Have you tried turning battery save off?
| >
|
| Yes, I usually use WAAS mode in the hope that EGNOS will start working.
|
| Even without WAAS I have realised that especially without a romer/roamer the
| main limitation in determining my position on a map (1:25000) was my inability
| to judge where in a 1km square a particular grid reference is located.

Those nice people as the Ordnance Survey have provided a child's guide.
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/freefun/nationalgrid/nghelp1.html

Dave F

Flat Earth Society said:

Strongly favouring the Geko 201, any good arguments why I
should/shouldn't purchase one as my first GPS?

The Gekos come with many different datums, but I don't think they come
with one for a flat earth. I think that a GPS will only work with a
spherical earth.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

Michael Chare said:

Yes, I usually use WAAS mode in the hope that EGNOS will start
working.

One of these days it will. In about three months apparently.

By the way, I read on one site (can't remember where offhand) that to
make full use of WAAS/EGNOS you first have to download the almanac from
the satellites since apparently it isn't programmed into the GPS. I
read a detailed description of how to go about doing this. You need to
be in a stationary position with a good unobstructed south view.
Without going into the details, it apparently takes about 45 minutes to
download the almanac for each satellite. Apparently this is necessary
before WAAS/EGNOS will work properly.

Not sure if this is accurate or not. Can anyone confirm or otherwise?

Also, Garmin units are apparently set to ignore EGNOS whilst test
signals are being transmitted, thus they can't use EGNOS yet even though
Magellans can. Apparently?

Quoted message said:

Even without WAAS I have realised that especially without a
romer/roamer the main limitation in determining my position on a map
(1:25000) was my inability to judge where in a 1km square a
particular grid reference is located.

You do have a problem. Try software and pre-plotting your waypoints.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

The screen is a bit smaller than the Etrex, iirc. And the patch
antenna is probably every bit as useless under trees as the Etrex one
is.

And apparently, so I've read, the 60CS is excellent under trees. Some
people are claiming that the signal strength is so strong that they are
locking on to 5 satellites *indoors* !!!

Quoted message said:

One hopes you were not influenced by the tacky computer games
(personally they put me off the Geko .. looks like a fisher-price
toy!).

The Geko is a toy! ;-)

What saddens me is that they've included these damn games in the latest
top of the range £500 units! How many kids are going to spend that much
on a games machine? Surely an X-Box is cheaper?

And how many adults who are prepared to spend that much on a GPS want to
play stupid kid's games on it?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

"Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:46:08 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Chare"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| news:[email hidden]...
| > Michael Chare wrote:
| >
| > > What it will not do is work under trees.
| >
| > Have you tried turning battery save off?
| >
|
| Yes, I usually use WAAS mode in the hope that EGNOS will start working.
|
| Even without WAAS I have realised that especially without a romer/roamer the
| main limitation in determining my position on a map (1:25000) was my

inability

Quoted message said:

| to judge where in a 1km square a particular grid reference is located.

Those nice people as the Ordnance Survey have provided a child's guide.
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/freefun/nationalgrid/nghelp1.html

This discusses the traditional grid reference for a 100m square. OK for those
old 1" = 1 mile maps.

My Geko claims to be accurate to 5m (95%? of the time). Being able to read a map
to that level of accuracy might enable me to use a GPS to distinguish between
the correct fork in a path, and a false trail that starts 10m away.

Michael Chare

Michael Chare said:

This discusses the traditional grid reference for a 100m square. OK
for those old 1" = 1 mile maps.

My Geko claims to be accurate to 5m (95%? of the time). Being able to
read a map to that level of accuracy might enable me to use a GPS to
distinguish between the correct fork in a path, and a false trail
that starts 10m away.

Unfortunately that fine plan will usually be spoilt by the fact that the
maps usually aren't that accurate anyway. Roads and tracks are often
shown 50m wide. Maps just aren't designed to be used to the kind of
accuracy that GPS is capable of.

Doesn't really matter anyway. Walk for a minute and you'll soon see if
you've taken the correct path or not. It'll take less than a minute to
correct your mistake if you're wrong.

Now that we've got this degree of accuracy it's easy to fall into the
trap of thinking that we actually need it. We don't. We managed quite
satisfactorily in the old days using (shudder) 6 figure grid refs!

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:24:11 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| The Geko is a toy! ;-)
|
| What saddens me is that they've included these damn games in the latest
| top of the range £500 units! How many kids are going to spend that much
| on a games machine? Surely an X-Box is cheaper?

Most things now suffer from "Have computer, must think of something to do
with it". The cost of adding a game or two *to the manufacturer* is
minisiscule.

Dave F

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:26:03 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Chare"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| My Geko claims to be accurate to 5m (95%? of the time). Being able to read a map
| to that level of accuracy might enable me to use a GPS to distinguish between
| the correct fork in a path, and a false trail that starts 10m away.

True! A GPS with an accuracy of 5m is an overkill for use on a 1:25,000
Explorer map which one can only read to 10 metres if you are lucky.

I have a roamer with 10m divisions http://www.maptools.com/UTMTools.html
"The Military Style Coordinate Scale and Protractor is marked for 4 scales"
Very nice but from the US.

The width of a path *line* on the Explorer is almost exactly 10m whereas a
real path is usually between 300mm and 1m wide, and one has to take into
account printing errors on the map. This is an inevitable result of drawing
a map on paper, so
| to distinguish between
| the correct fork in a path, and a false trail that starts 10m away.
one needs a larger scale map about 1:2,500. Also paths do not stay in the
same line. I have watched the route people walk, and thus the beaten
path, moving by a few metres. I have also listened to the Footpaths
Committee of our Local Authority decide to change the line of a path,
because the route people walk has moved. Fallen trees regularly cause
paths to move. Indeed I have deliberately (as an experiment) moved a path
to a better line by beating a few brambles back, and myself walking the
better line.

The OS could produce such a map because it's surveying accuracy is greater
than that, but the paper of an Explorer map is ATM unwieldy, and IMO about
as big as I can handle. The alternative is a GPS with mapping software
accurate to 1:2,500 and a display which will show detail at 1:2,500. The
mapping GPSs are ATM nothing like as good as that. Maybe in 10 years time
technology will have improved to do it.

IMO this will never happen because when walking one only needs to know
position within 100m, or so, plus a compass reading to a few degrees, and
can read the ground for the rest of the detail.

Dave F

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Michael Chare said:

Yes, I usually use WAAS mode in the hope that EGNOS will start
working.

I wouldn't / don't bother. Until the system is fully functional any
"corrections" you may get from it could make the receiver less accurate.
The current test signals (last few months) are being broadcast from just
one satellite which is located over the equator in the Indian Ocean.
Hence the signal from the satellite is rather difficult to receive and
easily blocked in the UK.

Quoted message said:

One of these days it will. In about three months apparently.

It was supposed to be April this year but that date came and went. I
have not seen a new date from the Euro Space Agency (the folk putting
EGNOS together) so I would

Quoted message said:

By the way, I read on one site (can't remember where offhand) that to
make full use of WAAS/EGNOS you first have to download the almanac from
the satellites since apparently it isn't programmed into the GPS. I
read a detailed description of how to go about doing this. You need to
be in a stationary position with a good unobstructed south view.
Without going into the details, it apparently takes about 45 minutes to
download the almanac for each satellite. Apparently this is necessary
before WAAS/EGNOS will work properly.

I could be wrong but any almanac would just be used in the case of using
the satellite for ranging (part of the position solution like a normal
GPS satellite). Currently ESTB (EGNOS System Test Bed) does not provide
ranging anyway.

I think it is the grid of ionospheric corrections that takes time to
download to the receiver. That is then used by the receiver to determine
the ionospheric corrections for each satellite at its location.

Quoted message said:

Not sure if this is accurate or not. Can anyone confirm or otherwise?

Also, Garmin units are apparently set to ignore EGNOS whilst test
signals are being transmitted, thus they can't use EGNOS yet even though
Magellans can. Apparently?

Magellans were certainly using ESTB signals when the "Do not use" flag
was set. However people monitoring the position solution using the ESTB
"correction" have shown that as yet there is no benefit and indeed much
of the time they make the position less accurate. End users are lulled
into thinking that their accuracy has improved because their receiver
blindly reduces the EPE or accuracy reported by the unit when it
receives corrections (no matter how invalid those corrections are).

Any user with a serious interest in accuracy should not use ESTB / EGNOS
until it has been demonstrated to actually improve matters.

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/