Geko 201

RJ Webb <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:52:27 +0100, Gordon <[email hidden]>

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AndyP <[email hidden]> wrote

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"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

> True, and whether you choose to believe it or not I did seriously
> consider getting a Geko as the ultimate GPS for ultralightweight
> camping.

Still not as light as a compass though, eh?

That isn't the way to look at it.

I would work out how many lb/hrs my Silva has cost me in carrying it
around for about 30 years, and using it perhaps half a dozen times in
anger.

The GPS is useful every time I carry it, whether for track creating,
navigating, telling me the sunset time, etc. It's an almanac, not
just a magnetic needle. ;-)

But you will still be carrying the compas around too...

Richard Webb

Ye.
--
Gordon

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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True, and whether you choose to believe it or not I did seriously
consider getting a Geko as the ultimate GPS for ultralightweight
camping.

Quoted message said:

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Still not as light as a compass though, eh?

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Why would I need a compass?

That's good lightweight thinking. No GPS or compass.

Jiffy said:

<snip>
My comment specifically mentioned the Etrex range so yeah, I'm sure!
I'm not talking about newer, GPS models, just the Etrex range. But,
since you asked, let's see how the 301 compares to the 60CS in terms
of weight v battery life.

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One pair of 2300 AAs have as much
power as 6 750 AAAs. Are AAs more than three times heavier?

A quick look at Google shows AAA's usually weigh 12 grams and AA's
weigh about 27 grams. That means AAA's weigh 16g per amp and AA's
weigh 11.7g per amp.

Except that there are 900mAh AAA batteries on sale now, so the weight per
amp is nearer to 13.2g. The largest I've seen advertised in AA are 2400.

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Even if
they are, if the latest battery consumption figures are to be
believed I should be able to last a weekend on one set of AAs (but
of course I'll bring spares)

Pretty amazing. 20 hours on one set of AA's!!!

The most recent Garmin designs appear (from the specs) to use substantially
less power than previous models. The new colour eTrex are claimed to be
twice as efficient as their predecessor monochrome models. One could assume
that the efficiency is proportional to design age.

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<snip>

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Normally I use 4 AAs per day with my GPS12, so I'll bring 16-20
batteries for a long weekend. That sort of weight adds up, so
carrying only 4 for a whole trip will feel like nothing.

You'll be saving upto 16x27g=432g, almost a full pound in weight!
Your total GPS weight for a long weekend is now just 266g. For the
Geko 301 the equivalent figure would be 179g which is a poor saving
really when you consider all the extra features of the 60CS.

Slightly different results with the revised AAA power curve, but bottom
line, there isn't a huge amount in it. Its down to convinence, budget,
preference, etc.

--
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Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

NC <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Jiffy said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

One pair of 2300 AAs have as much
power as 6 750 AAAs. Are AAs more than three times heavier?

A quick look at Google shows AAA's usually weigh 12 grams and AA's
weigh about 27 grams. That means AAA's weigh 16g per amp and AA's
weigh 11.7g per amp.

Except that there are 900mAh AAA batteries on sale now, so the weight per
amp is nearer to 13.2g. The largest I've seen advertised in AA are 2400.

Just how anal-retentive can a thread get in this group?
No offence intended, but.......

;-)
--
Gordon

Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Gordon said:

Oh dear! Just when I was beginning to think I ought to invest in a
fourth, colour/stereophonic GPS. :-)

Yes, you should!

Actually the colour is very useful, especially on the map screen. Also
on the satellite screen where you can use multi-colour mode to relate
the signal strengh bars to the satellites. On the other screens it just
looks pretty.

Did you know that there is a satellite up there now which can emit rays
which can paralyse the male population and render them motionless?

It's called Sky Sports 3.
--
Gordon

Paul Saunders wrote on Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:04:26 +0100....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would work out how many lb/hrs my Silva has cost me in carrying it
around for about 30 years, and using it perhaps half a dozen times in
anger.

Yeah, almost completely useless. I've always navigated with a map.

Was very glad of my compass a few weeks ago, navigating the Coniston
fells in mist, rain and strong winds.

Er... I did use it with a map too...

--
Tim Jackson
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(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
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Paul Saunders wrote on Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:59:17 +0100....

Quoted message said:

if my speed drops below 0kph

Did you ever think of joining the Italian army?

--
Tim Jackson
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Tim Jackson said:

Quoted message said:

if my speed drops below 0kph

Did you ever think of joining the Italian army?

Good idea! That's the army that builds tanks with one forward gear and
four reverse gears, isn't it?

Paul
--
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"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

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But to be serious for a minute, whenever the subject of GPS comes up
a lot of people I've spoke to don't want any of the features they put
in them. All they want is a simple cheap wristwatch with something
that just gives them a grid ref of where they are at the time.

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That's what people who *don't* have a GPS want.

Exactly. And when someone comes out with such a thing they might well
become universally recognised as standard safety items to take on the hill
the same way compasses, whistles and survival bags are. I think there's a
market that all the GPS manufacturers are missing but maybe adding all the
features isn't a large proportion of the cost anyway, I don't know?

I'm not saying it's what I want though, I reckon the eerieness of mist and
snow merging into uniformity on the Cairngorm plateau gives an experience
with a subtle underlying hint of danger that would be spoiled somewhat by
having a GPS at your disposal.

Incidentally, in looking up what exactly you can get in the way of GPS units
these days I noted a Lowrance model that seemed to be identical in
appearance (and presumably weight) to the Eagle Explorer model my girlfriend
bought 10 years ago. Not much progress there.

Chris Malcolm said:

Yup. That's the battery consumption for people who can't be bothered
finding out how to economise on the use of the compass. It's an
extremely difficult procedure which starts off with a formidable
highly technical hurdle well beyond the average consumer's ability:
you have to RTFM.

I read the entire manual before I even bought it. I read a few other
manuals for units that I didn't buy too.

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I've set my compass to switch on if my speed drops below 0kph, so it
will never turn on

If it's like my Summit it then "below" means "less than or equal to",
i.e., it will come on when you have been stationary for whatever delay
you have preset. Or if you ever step backwards :-)

Actually it doesn't. I've set the delay to 5 seconds and it doesn't
switch on (why don't they just include an "off" option?). Only comes on
if I hold the Page button.

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IMHO there have been bugs in the s/w, but it's meant to switch on
every 15mins or whatever, take a reading, and switch off again.

So how can I tell if it's doing this? Does it "switch on" without
actually turning the display on?

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Which makes me wonder about the alarm clock feature. Surely it would
need to be switched on to use this feature too?

Not if they've designed it properly.

Okay, I'll test that.

Yep, it works!

So when it's off then, it's not "really" off?

Paul
--
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Paul Saunders said:

Quoted message said:

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Which makes me wonder about the alarm clock feature. Surely it would
need to be switched on to use this feature too?

Not if they've designed it properly.

Okay, I'll test that.

Yep, it works!

So when it's off then, it's not "really" off?

Mobile phones have the same facility. Obviously useful if you don't wish to
run the battery down, needlessly acquiring GPS satellites or mobile phone
masts, as appropriate (or driving the display). Battery drain will be very
low in such "off" modes.

--
Assume the worst, you'll never be disappointed.

Mail john rather than nospam...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

can I expect my battery life to be closer to the 60C?

Sorry, but I wouldn't think so. I don't know how Garmin compute their
typical use battery lifespans but it's interesting to note a bigger
difference between the battery life of the equivalent Geko units and the 60C
and 60CS units. The Geko 201 is quoted as lasting 12 hours to the 301's 9
hours. The 60C last's 30 hours to the 60CS' 20 hours. So the addition of a
compass and barometer in the 301 reduce battery life by a quarter but the
addition of the same in the 60CS reduces it's battery life by a third.
Calculated power consumption figures reflect similar variation. Has the 60CS
got a bigger more accurate barometer which uses more power?

Cheers, Jiffy

Jiffy wrote on Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:17:26 +0100....

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but I wouldn't think so. I don't know how Garmin compute their
typical use battery lifespans but it's interesting to note a bigger
difference between the battery life of the equivalent Geko units and the 60C
and 60CS units. The Geko 201 is quoted as lasting 12 hours to the 301's 9
hours. The 60C last's 30 hours to the 60CS' 20 hours. So the addition of a
compass and barometer in the 301 reduce battery life by a quarter but the
addition of the same in the 60CS reduces it's battery life by a third.
Calculated power consumption figures reflect similar variation. Has the 60CS
got a bigger more accurate barometer which uses more power?

Possibly the GPS side of the 60C/60CS is more power efficient than the
Geko, because of newer technology? But that the barometers haven't
improved by the same ratio, so they now use proportionately more of
the total power available?

--
Tim Jackson
[email hidden]
(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

Tim Jackson said:

Quoted message said:

Has the 60CS got a bigger more accurate
barometer which uses more power?

I thought the barometer was negligible.

Quoted message said:

Possibly the GPS side of the 60C/60CS is more power efficient than the
Geko, because of newer technology? But that the barometers haven't
improved by the same ratio, so they now use proportionately more of
the total power available?

Seems strange to point the finger at the barometer. It's the compass
that's the big compass drain, so it seems more likely that the 60CS
compass drains more power, relatively speaking.

Paul
--
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http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
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AndyP said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All they want is a simple cheap wristwatch with
something that just gives them a grid ref of where they are at the
time.

Quoted message said:

That's what people who *don't* have a GPS want.

Exactly. And when someone comes out with such a thing they might well
become universally recognised as standard safety items to take on the
hill the same way compasses, whistles and survival bags are.

Could be.

Quoted message said:

I think
there's a market that all the GPS manufacturers are missing but maybe
adding all the features isn't a large proportion of the cost anyway,

All the added features make them a lot more desirable, besides, they've
added all these features because they can. If all they did was give you
a grid ref people would probably complain that they have the potential
to do so much more.

It's like heart rate monitors. You can get cheap ones which tell you
your heart rate and very little else, and you can get expensive ones
that record your heart rate over time which you can upload to your PC to
show graphs and stuff. Not everyone needs or wants to study their
results. Same with GPS.

Quoted message said:

I'm not saying it's what I want though, I reckon the eerieness of
mist and snow merging into uniformity on the Cairngorm plateau gives
an experience with a subtle underlying hint of danger that would be
spoiled somewhat by having a GPS at your disposal.

I've never experienced a feeling of danger when disoriented in mist,
I've just found it inconvenient (although I accept that it can be
dangerous in certain situations). To me, walking in mist with a GPS
doesn't remove the feeling of danger, it just removes the hassle of
faffing about with map, compass and pacing. It allows me to enjoy the
wonderful eerie atmosphere of mist walking without any hassle.

Quoted message said:

Incidentally, in looking up what exactly you can get in the way of
GPS units these days I noted a Lowrance model that seemed to be
identical in appearance (and presumably weight) to the Eagle Explorer
model my girlfriend bought 10 years ago. Not much progress there.

Don't know which one you were looking at. They are still selling some
old models. The latest and best are the various iFinder variants. Much
smaller (perhaps you misjudged the size), very light with an absolutely
phenomenal trackpoint capacity - 100 uncompressed tracks of 10,000
points each, a total of 1 million track points. Also 1000 waypoints,
1000 event markers and 99 routes. Far more than any other GPS offers.
Sounds like progress to me.

Paul
--
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http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

Paul Saunders wrote on Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:02:01 +0100....

Quoted message said:

Seems strange to point the finger at the barometer. It's the compass
that's the big compass drain, so it seems more likely that the 60CS
compass drains more power,

Yes, when I talked about the barometer I was starting where the post I
was replying to left off. But no doubt you're right.

Quoted message said:

relatively speaking.

Yes, the point being that the compass might drain the same or less
power than in the Geko, in absolute terms. But if the GPS power
consumption has reduced by a greater amount on the 60CS model,
compared to the Geko, then the proportion of the total power taken by
the compass is more, in relative terms.

--
Tim Jackson
[email hidden]
(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

Chris Malcolm said:

If it's like my Summit the compass control parameters are only active
if the compass is also set to "ON".

Do you have a menu item for that? Can't do that on mine, there's no
menu item to switch it on or off, only the Page button.

Quoted message said:

Holding down the PAGE button
switches it from OFF to ON, after which, if you've set it to be active
at 0kph, then it will switch off when you move and switch on when you
stop.

Ah, so it does! It never occurred to me to switch it off by moving.
I've been switching it off by pressing Page.

Quoted message said:

To stop it doing this and go permanently off you need to set the
whole thing to off again (which you may be able to do with the PAGE
button if it's a toggle).

Yes, it is. Fortunately the 60CS shows icons along the "window" bar
along the top to indicate various things, one of which is a compass icon
to show when it's active. Quite handy that, so there's no confusion
about whether it's on or off.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IMHO there have been bugs in the s/w, but it's meant to switch on
every 15mins or whatever, take a reading, and switch off again.

Quoted message said:

So how can I tell if it's doing this? Does it "switch on" without
actually turning the display on?

No idea, you'll have to try it.

It didn't work. But I know why now. Not implemented in my version of
the software. I've just downloaded the latest patch so I'll add that
soon. Apparently they've added 24 user waypoint icons and software for
designing your own. I've downloaded that too. Not tried it yet, but
that is so cool. Even though there are loads of icons in the unit, most
have little use for me.

Paul
--
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http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
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