Forerunner Software

Quoted message said:

I really don't understand how you can't think of any possible reason
that someone might be interested in analysing their runs.

Well, I admit that I'm proceeding on the (possibly erroneous) assumption
that amusing oneself with statistics doesn't count. Given that, I don't
see how "analysing their runs" will make them run any better than they
would if they did not do any analysis.

Quoted message said:

I think
that you think that your choices in running are "the one true way"

Not at all. I'm saying precisely the opposite -- that it doesn't make
the slightest difference whether or not you analyze your runs. I'm not
trying to argue that the said analysis will lead you to run less
effectively. At worst, you'll waste some time.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, if you need a reason here's mine: I do all my easy runs
at 140bpm. My pace varies from about 8.5 minute miles to nearly
10 minute miles depending on my state of fitness, overtraining,
recent speed work. I do identical out and back runs and the return
half varies from being identical to the outgoing half time, to a
couple of minutes slower. I find this information more useful than
just knowing I'm running at a conversational speed.

You don't need a GPS to know that you're slowing down. At most you
need a stopwatch. After a while, you won't even need the watch to
know that you're slowing down.

Even then -- why is the information "useful" ? In particular, how
can you use the information ?

Quoted message said:

If I run a 5k time trial at an average heart rate of 170bpm, and
another one a week later, 30s slower at 168bpm, with a personal
best time when I had 175bpm average, then that just might tell me
I'm not trying hard enough rather than am unfit. Maybe.

You're not going to expect an interpretable trend in fitness over a
period as short as one week. Over a longer period than that, it's harder to
interpret that data.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-09-26, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

You don't need a GPS to know that you're slowing down. At most you
need a stopwatch. After a while, you won't even need the watch to
know that you're slowing down.

True, but I like the cute little runner guys on the Forerunner. 😉

Jenn

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:29:36 -0500, "JMA" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-09-26, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

You don't need a GPS to know that you're slowing down. At most you
need a stopwatch. After a while, you won't even need the watch to
know that you're slowing down.

True, but I like the cute little runner guys on the Forerunner. 😉

are they male or female?

de groeten,

martin

http://home.planet.nl/~usa

Traveller ® said:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:29:36 -0500, "JMA" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-09-26, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

You don't need a GPS to know that you're slowing down. At most you
need a stopwatch. After a while, you won't even need the watch to
know that you're slowing down.

True, but I like the cute little runner guys on the Forerunner. 😉

are they male or female?

The "virtual partner" is a small child, except on the Scottish firmware
version where they use a sheep instead.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Traveller ® said:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:29:36 -0500, "JMA" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On 2004-09-26, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:

> You don't need a GPS to know that you're slowing down. At most you
> need a stopwatch. After a while, you won't even need the watch to
> know that you're slowing down.

True, but I like the cute little runner guys on the Forerunner. 😉

are they male or female?

The "virtual partner" is a small child, except on the Scottish firmware
version where they use a sheep instead.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

LOL.

It's a boy child that jumps up and down for joy when you win.

Jenn

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan Rebbechi

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan Rebbechi

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On 2004-09-25, Traveller ® <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> What I'm looking is mainly software to analyze my run(s). Anyone out
>> who has come accross this kind of software?

> Analyze your runs ??? To what end ? Or is the said analysis the end

and the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> running the means ? Don't you have something better to do ?

If you don't want to run with a GPS or race with a HRM, then don't.

Just

Quoted message said:

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because someone else does, doesn't make them any less of a runner.

I've run with both a GPS and a heart rate monitor at various times. But

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

don't devote a great deal of time and effort to "analyzing" my run(s),

and I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really don't understand what purpose it would serve.

I really don't understand how you can't think of any possible reason
that someone might be interested in analysing their runs. I think
that you think that your choices in running are "the one true way"
much like someone decides that the missionary position is the only
way to have sex.

Anyway, if you need a reason here's mine: I do all my easy runs
at 140bpm. My pace varies from about 8.5 minute miles to nearly
10 minute miles depending on my state of fitness, overtraining,
recent speed work. I do identical out and back runs and the return
half varies from being identical to the outgoing half time, to a
couple of minutes slower. I find this information more useful than
just knowing I'm running at a conversational speed.

If I run a 5k time trial at an average heart rate of 170bpm, and
another one a week later, 30s slower at 168bpm, with a personal
best time when I had 175bpm average, then that just might tell me
I'm not trying hard enough rather than am unfit. Maybe.

Paul

I firmly believe that one can better succeed as an athlete by keeping a
detailed journal. This allows an athlete and/or coach to review what
training was done that led to improvement. It can also enable one to look
for trends that might contribute to an injury. I know one runner who got
this nagging pain about the same time every year. He was pretty good about
keeping a training log; we looked at it and say that he tended to start fast
paced training with little base; he would back off and run easy before
starting hard again. The following year he pushed back starting the fast
stuff a few weeks and did not get that knee pain that year. This is an
analysis that is useful albeit over the course of time.

When I was training for a 100 mile mountain bike race, a buddy had developed
a way to predict his time for some standard workouts. He had done this for
7 or 8 years and was found a pretty good prediction. This analysis can be
useful in developing a realistic goal and strategy.

Does this mean that every run should undergo some sort of statistical
analysis? No I do not fall into that camp, but some sort of analysis of
training is critical for improvement, IMHO. Joe Vigil uses several ways of
analyzing his runners that look at "standard" runs and lab tests.

However, I would rather have an athlete with lots of data than one with
little.

Too bad running does not have the ability to measure power as cycling
does...

"JMA" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Traveller ® said:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:29:36 -0500, "JMA" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>
>"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>> On 2004-09-26, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> You don't need a GPS to know that you're slowing down. At most you
>> need a stopwatch. After a while, you won't even need the watch to
>> know that you're slowing down.
>
>True, but I like the cute little runner guys on the Forerunner. 😉
>
are they male or female?

The "virtual partner" is a small child, except on the Scottish firmware
version where they use a sheep instead.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

LOL.

It's a boy child that jumps up and down for joy when you win.

Jenn

Quoted message said:

except on the Scottish firmware
version where they use a sheep instead.

Where do I buy this version?

Sam said:

I firmly believe that one can better succeed as an athlete by keeping a
detailed journal.

I personally keep a training diary. I keep track of milage and a summary of
speed workouts. I also write down splits for speed work and total times for
my easy runs when I do bring the stopwatch (not always).

I can't say that reviewing the stopwatch readings from my day to day
training runs have told me anything that's non-obvious -- I usually know when
I'm sluggish.

Stopwatch readings from speed workouts or race times are moderately useful.

Quoted message said:

This allows an athlete and/or coach to review what
training was done that led to improvement.

I think it could be useful for a coach, just to know the athletes background.

But I doubt that a coach would bother reviewing things like mile splits from
GPS logs (-;

I think it's of less use to someone who is self-coached.

I keep a reasonably detailed log anyway, but I'm on the fence about its
utility.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Too bad running does not have the ability to measure power as cycling
does...

What do you think the advantages of that would be ? I suppose it would
make life easier for exercise scientists.

I suppose ground contact forces averaged over time would be one analog.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam said:

I firmly believe that one can better succeed as an athlete by keeping a
detailed journal.

I personally keep a training diary. I keep track of milage and a summary

of

Quoted message said:

speed workouts. I also write down splits for speed work and total times

for

Quoted message said:

my easy runs when I do bring the stopwatch (not always).

I can't say that reviewing the stopwatch readings from my day to day
training runs have told me anything that's non-obvious -- I usually know

when

Quoted message said:

I'm sluggish.

Stopwatch readings from speed workouts or race times are moderately

useful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This allows an athlete and/or coach to review what
training was done that led to improvement.

I think it could be useful for a coach, just to know the athletes

background.

Quoted message said:

But I doubt that a coach would bother reviewing things like mile splits

from

Quoted message said:

GPS logs (-;

I think it's of less use to someone who is self-coached.

I keep a reasonably detailed log anyway, but I'm on the fence about its
utility.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Too bad running does not have the ability to measure power as cycling
does...

What do you think the advantages of that would be ? I suppose it would
make life easier for exercise scientists.

I suppose ground contact forces averaged over time would be one analog.

Being able to measure power takes out the variables of wind, changes
in grade, etc. Also, it would make assessing training stress easier, IMO.
See www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com for an example of how cyclists can use
power.

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

And of course YOU don't over analyze anything. What business is it of
yours you moron?

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Traveller ® said:

Since a couple of month I'm using the Forerunner. It's a nice piece of
electronics, but the software that Garmin supplies isn't exactly top.
I've been searching on the net but I mainly came across mapping
software.

What I'm looking is mainly software to analyze my run(s). Anyone out
who has come accross this kind of software?

Analyze your runs ??? To what end ? Or is the said analysis the end and the
running the means ? Don't you have something better to do ?

Cheers,

bigsky said:

And of course YOU don't over analyze anything. What business is it of
yours you moron?

First, as long as he's posting here and I'm reading here, it is my business.

Second, it's a fair point that I'm as guilty as anyone in overanalyzing. I'll
cheerfully admit that most of it amounts to pointless masturbation over
statistics. It was for the most part motivated more by scientific curiousity
than by a conviction that it would result in better performances. Even though
I have done more than my share of analysis, I don't believe it has been an
important factor in my progress this year.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

<< Even though
I have done more than my share of analysis, I don't believe it has been an
important factor in my progress this year.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi >>

.....so you've gone backwards?

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

Etherized said:

<< Even though
I have done more than my share of analysis, I don't believe it has been an
important factor in my progress this year.

Quoted message said:

....so you've gone backwards?

Gone from under 70% to over 75%. Analysis appears to be more or less orthogonal
to running performance.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

And of course YOU don't over analyze anything.

He over analyzes everything, a trait of a true ignoramus.

Quoted message said:

you moron?

Oh, you two have met.

Quoted message said:

I'll
cheerfully admit that most of it amounts to pointless masturbation

Something he IS an expert on, and has overanylyzed to death.

Barf Bag said:

Quoted message said:

I'll
cheerfully admit that most of it amounts to pointless masturbation

Something he IS an expert on, and has overanylyzed to death.

Whereas you have potential to become an expert, but keep getting sidelined by
overuse injuries.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Whereas you have potential to become an expert, but keep getting sidelined by

overuse injuries.

So you're proud of being an expert on masturbation then? Well, I guess
everyone's gotta be good at something, and it's a sure thing running isn't your
thing.

Barf Bag said:

Quoted message said:

Whereas you have potential to become an expert, but keep getting sidelined by

overuse injuries.

So you're proud of being an expert on masturbation then? Well, I guess
everyone's gotta be good at something, and it's a sure thing running isn't
your thing.

70 miles this week, troll. That's almost as much time running as you spend
jerking off.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

70 miles this week, troll.

At that BLAZING speed of 12mpm LOLOL

Quoted message said:

That's almost as much time running as you spend
jerking off.

But not as much time as you spend watching me on my webcam, while you are
jerking off, so you ARE the expert.