Light dawns...

Badger_South wrote:
|| ...on Marblehead
||
|| OK, about three of my friends are telling me to go clipless recently.
|| Unfortunately, I still have these remnants of thinking of myself as
|| I was a year ago, out-of-shape, and not worthy (lol), and somewhat
|| st00pidly worried about falling over...as if... <g>
||
|| Yesterday, I'm looking down and realize once again, I've got the
|| straps on my left toe clip strap twisted and rubbing against the
|| crank, it's almost worn through the side of the strap.
||
|| In addition, last ride I'm inwardly griping b/c my left shoe has been
|| mis-positioned on the pedal (twisted to the side), and on the right
|| shoe, I'm rubbing the area of the shoe near the big toe on the side
|| against that crank, and mentally [censored]' about this rubbing and how
|| it's probably slowing me down.
||
|| This morning, I'm like, 'dude, time to go clipless, much?'. <shaking
|| head>
||
|| So I'm going to cinch down the toe clips to keep the foot on the
|| right part of the pedal for a couple days - I'm still riding them
|| loose.
||
|| This wknd I'm gonna drag myself to the LBS to get a pair of clipless
|| pedals and shoes and at least be able to try it out. I'll bring the
|| bike and ask the nice guys at Performance if they'll install them
|| for me. Would it be normal to ask they look at the 'float' and stuff
|| and help me get them adjusted, or is that too much to ask?

No....if you bought your bike there, certainly not.

I figure
|| if my knees start to complain, or I have some other problem with fit
|| I can always swap out back to the toeclips. I am a little worried
|| that the piriformis syndrome, which pulls my left knee out to the
|| side about 10 degrees out of the aero position (knees in), if I
|| don't concentrate, will torque on my foot/ankle if clipped in.
||

Hmmmm....I see. Maybe someone will be able to offer meaningful comments on
that, Badge.

As you know, I went clipless some time ago this year. As far as my road
bike is concerned, I'll never go back, though I am thinking of getting a
second bike that I can just hop on an ride in street clothes (like the
students on campus do).

Oh, expect to fall buddy! Just remember, you'll very likely fall when
you're barely moving, so it will hurt mainly your pride. As others here
told me, falling is a good motiviation to learn to clip out 🙂

|| -B
|| I have a feeling I'll probably be kicking myself up and down the
|| side of Monticello mountain for not doing it sooner.

Badger_South says...

Quoted message said:

This wknd I'm gonna drag myself to the LBS to get a pair of clipless pedals
and shoes and at least be able to try it out. I'll bring the bike and ask
the nice guys at Performance if they'll install them for me. Would it be
normal to ask they look at the 'float' and stuff and help me get them
adjusted, or is that too much to ask? I figure if my knees start to
complain, or I have some other problem with fit I can always swap out back
to the toeclips. I am a little worried that the piriformis syndrome, which
pulls my left knee out to the side about 10 degrees out of the aero
position (knees in), if I don't concentrate, will torque on my foot/ankle
if clipped in.

Toe clips? Yuck. Clipless is a big step up from that. I highly recommend
Speedplay Frogs for a bunch of reasons. They have a lot of rotational
float, which will lay your knee concerns to rest. They are the easiest
clipless pedals to get out of, bar none. There is no spring resistance
at all, just rotate and you are out. Getting in isn't any more difficult
than any other pedal. They are mountain bike pedals and the cleats are
recessed into the soles for better walkability. On the downside, they
are somewhat expensive at about $105 for the basic chromoly version, and
you will probably need to spend some time with a utility knife carving
out enough room for the cleats. If you ever own any, use some wax based
lube on the pedals and cleats every other ride or so. Don't be put off
because they are made for MTBs, MTB shoes and pedals make all kinds of
sense for recreational roadies.

Super Slinky said:

Badger_South says...

Quoted message said:

This wknd I'm gonna drag myself to the LBS to get a pair of clipless pedals
and shoes and at least be able to try it out. I'll bring the bike and ask
the nice guys at Performance if they'll install them for me. Would it be
normal to ask they look at the 'float' and stuff and help me get them
adjusted, or is that too much to ask? I figure if my knees start to
complain, or I have some other problem with fit I can always swap out back
to the toeclips. I am a little worried that the piriformis syndrome, which
pulls my left knee out to the side about 10 degrees out of the aero
position (knees in), if I don't concentrate, will torque on my foot/ankle
if clipped in.

Toe clips? Yuck. Clipless is a big step up from that. I highly recommend
Speedplay Frogs for a bunch of reasons. They have a lot of rotational
float, which will lay your knee concerns to rest. They are the easiest
clipless pedals to get out of, bar none. There is no spring resistance
at all, just rotate and you are out. Getting in isn't any more difficult
than any other pedal. They are mountain bike pedals and the cleats are
recessed into the soles for better walkability. On the downside, they
are somewhat expensive at about $105 for the basic chromoly version, and
you will probably need to spend some time with a utility knife carving
out enough room for the cleats. If you ever own any, use some wax based
lube on the pedals and cleats every other ride or so. Don't be put off
because they are made for MTBs, MTB shoes and pedals make all kinds of
sense for recreational roadies.

Really, but for me it was a little bit of a progression, and I pretty much
realized this a year ago. I have a hip injury which limits my flex on one
side, as I say, and makes me a bit less agile. Thus the need for caution.

However, on a side note, I'm happy to report the daily climbing that little
2 mile 5% grade is definitely helping the hip/lowerback/piriformis. Sime
days I'm limping a little in the parking lot, but by the end of the ride,
I'm feeling great. Hip always feels better doing my 26 hill route than my
flatter route. I don't think the length has that much to do with it; I'm
not sagging or losing at anytime or anything, normally.

In contrast, when doing 20-30miles on the flats spinning up, I'm usually
limping quite a bit when off the bike for the first three days back, and
some of the time I have to use a cane (on the bike I'm fine). Somehow that
joint (sacro-iliac?) or lower lumbar (root cause?) is getting
extrastressful accessory work during spinning. The climbing in the saddle
is somehow therapeutic, probably due to the power curve of pushing through
the hip when climbing, dunno.

PS thanks for the help. Just what I wanted. The speed play so easy to get
out of..that doesn't mean I'll accidently unclip by accident more easily
would it?

-B

Badger_South says...

Quoted message said:

PS thanks for the help. Just what I wanted. The speed play so easy to get
out of..that doesn't mean I'll accidently unclip by accident more easily
would it?

No, they are impossible to get out of without the rotation. A good
analogy would be the way a doorknob/latch works. The latch on a doorknob
mechanism is wedge shaped so it will go in one way and latch and you
can't pull the door back without twisting the doorknob. The Frogs work
on the same principle. There is no spring on the pedals but the cleats
have a wedge shaped latch that compresses when your feet press down on
the pedal, then it will open up and lock when the cleat is fully
engaged. You can't clip out the way you clipped in, you have to twist to
get them off.

Badger_South said:

This wknd I'm gonna drag myself to the LBS to get a pair of clipless
pedals and shoes and at least be able to try it out. I'll bring the bike
and ask the nice guys at Performance if they'll install them for me. Would
it be normal to ask they look at the 'float' and stuff and help me get
them adjusted, or is that too much to ask?

They should get you adjusted properly, but that is not easy to do, and
frankly I'd expect them to not spend as much time on it as you really
should. Be prepared to have to fiddle with the adjustments on your own,
to get it right.

Several points:

You will fall. Live with it. You will fall when you roll to a stop,
then remember that you are clipped in a half-second too late, and forget
how to get out. But you won't be moving, so the only injury will be to
your pride.

Make sure to get the angle adjusted correctly. Most pedals now have some
float, so it would not seem to be critical, but spd's usually still have
some tension to them that rotates your foot to one spot. Speedplay Frogs
have totally free float, but they take somewhat longer to adjust to. I
love them, but they may or may not be for you. Performance is probably
not going to recommend them, either.

If you do get spd's, make sure to get the angle adjusted correctly. I
hurt my knee once on a tour, and blame it on mis-adjusted cleats.

Get mountain-bike style cleats and shoes. It is far better to be able to
actually walk in the shoes. Get the stiffest shoe you can find.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can
_`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein
(_)/ (_) |

Badger_South said:

PS thanks for the help. Just what I wanted. The speed play so easy to get
out of..that doesn't mean I'll accidently unclip by accident more easily
would it?

No. It has never happened to me. I did accidentally unclip with the
spd's, though.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

Roger Zoul said:

Oh, expect to fall buddy! Just remember, you'll very likely fall when
you're barely moving, so it will hurt mainly your pride. As others here
told me, falling is a good motiviation to learn to clip out 🙂

Hi, falling is an option. If you pay attention to what you are doing
and know your bike well enough, that shifting and braking are done
without need for thought, you can then concentrate on the pedals.

I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip in
and out, then you can begin to ride.
For me, the trick was to clip out early and to partially click out,
when I might have to stop. What I mean by that, is you disengage the
rear of the clip, but stay in the front. Then if you don't have to
stop, you can just snap back in.
Until I was comfortable with using the pedals, I focused on them. I
reminded myself to clip out.

Maybe, I'm just lucky, but I have never fallen, because I forgot to
clip out. In about 4800 miles of riding I have fallen once and that
was on a hill, when my chain came off to the inside. That happened
early this year and I put on a N-Gear Jump Stop, so it won't ever
happen again.
I think people fall, because they don't pay attention to what they are
doing. After a while, it becomes automatic.

And yes Badger, you will wonder why you didn't do this sooner. My
first set of clipless pedals were Shimano PD-M324, here, take a look -
http://bike.shimano.com/Footwear_Pedals/pedals/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=PD-M324

I think they are excellent pedals to learn on and a benefit is that
you don't need to be clipped in, to use them. It comes in handy, in
the beginning, in high traffic and at busy intersections.

I still use them on my older bike.

Life is Good!
Jeff

"Jeff Starr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Oh, expect to fall buddy! Just remember, you'll very likely fall when
you're barely moving, so it will hurt mainly your pride. As others here
told me, falling is a good motiviation to learn to clip out 🙂

Hi, falling is an option. If you pay attention to what you are doing
and know your bike well enough, that shifting and braking are done
without need for thought, you can then concentrate on the pedals.

I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip in
and out, then you can begin to ride.
For me, the trick was to clip out early and to partially click out,
when I might have to stop. What I mean by that, is you disengage the
rear of the clip, but stay in the front. Then if you don't have to
stop, you can just snap back in.
Until I was comfortable with using the pedals, I focused on them. I
reminded myself to clip out.

Maybe, I'm just lucky, but I have never fallen, because I forgot to
clip out. In about 4800 miles of riding I have fallen once and that
was on a hill, when my chain came off to the inside. That happened
early this year and I put on a N-Gear Jump Stop, so it won't ever
happen again.
I think people fall, because they don't pay attention to what they are
doing. After a while, it becomes automatic.

And yes Badger, you will wonder why you didn't do this sooner. My
first set of clipless pedals were Shimano PD-M324, here, take a look -

http://bike.shimano.com/Footwear_Pedals/pedals/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=PD-M324

Quoted message said:

Those are the exact pedals the LBS recommended when I switched to clipless
pedals earlier this year. After 55 years of riding with regular pedals I
found the transition to the clipless rather painless. I just wish I had
done it sooner. I still use the platform side when I'm doing a lot of
stop-and-go riding but for longer I'm always clipped in. I've only fallen
once and that was an emergency stop. Thankfully it was on grass<g>

Beverly

Jeff Starr wrote:
|| On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:06:20 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||
||
|||
||| Oh, expect to fall buddy! Just remember, you'll very likely fall
||| when
||| you're barely moving, so it will hurt mainly your pride. As others
||| here
||| told me, falling is a good motiviation to learn to clip out 🙂
|||
||
|| Hi, falling is an option. If you pay attention to what you are doing
|| and know your bike well enough, that shifting and braking are done
|| without need for thought, you can then concentrate on the pedals.

Falling happens when you stop paying attention. It will happen for most.
It is best to assume it will happen, and if it doesn't you'll just be lucky.

||
|| I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
|| empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip in
|| and out, then you can begin to ride.

I did all of this. I spent two hours at teh LBS on the trainer...I left
when the starting making grumbling noises 🙂 But the cute bike shop girl
probably doesn't suspect that I was just trying to be in her presense (well,
that too).

After I got home, I did 3 separate short rides without falling. I thought I
had it down. However, as soon as I met my riding buddy for a long ride, as i
rode up and starting talking to him, I fell. I thought I could just clip
out one feet and lean on that foot. That was after 4 miles. Then, after
about 20 miles, the same damn thing happened again and I had been careful to
fully clip out both feet. Then, after 25 miles, I popped a spoke and my
rear wheel went out of true. My inexperience with clipless and with riding
a bike with a wheel out of true, while trying to make a U-turn in the middle
of the road, resulted in my third fall. All on the same day.

|| For me, the trick was to clip out early and to partially click out,
|| when I might have to stop. What I mean by that, is you disengage the
|| rear of the clip, but stay in the front.

How do you do that with SPDs? I have found that any kind of partially being
clipped in is a good way to fall. When I unclip, I unclip both feet.
Period.

Then if you don't have to
|| stop, you can just snap back in.
|| Until I was comfortable with using the pedals, I focused on them. I
|| reminded myself to clip out.

Well, I don't see how you cannot remind yourself to clip out. Even now, I
have to clip out. It's always a thought, especially near intersections and
stops. The only differece is I'm not so stressed about it, but it is still
an act I must think about.

||
|| Maybe, I'm just lucky, but I have never fallen, because I forgot to
|| clip out. In about 4800 miles of riding I have fallen once and that
|| was on a hill, when my chain came off to the inside. That happened
|| early this year and I put on a N-Gear Jump Stop, so it won't ever
|| happen again.

You are lucky.

|| I think people fall, because they don't pay attention to what they
|| are
|| doing.

I'd say that's exactly why people fall. Most humans can't pay attention to
anything 100% of the time, and when you're new to clipless, something will
steal your attention at first. After a few falls, you learn NOT to let that
happen.

|| After a while, it becomes automatic.
||

I'd say it because something that is no longer as big a deal as it was at
first, but it is far from automatic, at least for me.

|| And yes Badger, you will wonder why you didn't do this sooner. My
|| first set of clipless pedals were Shimano PD-M324, here, take a look
|| -
||
http://bike.shimano.com/Footwear_Pedals/pedals/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=PD-M324
||
|| I think they are excellent pedals to learn on and a benefit is that
|| you don't need to be clipped in, to use them. It comes in handy, in
|| the beginning, in high traffic and at busy intersections.
||
|| I still use them on my older bike.
||
||
|| Life is Good!
|| Jeff

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

the nice guys at Performance if they'll install them for me. Would it be
normal to ask they look at the 'float' and stuff and help me get them
adjusted, or is that too much to ask? I figure if my knees start to
complain, or I have some other problem with fit I can always swap out back
to the toeclips. I am a little worried that the piriformis syndrome, which
pulls my left knee out to the side about 10 degrees out of the aero
position (knees in), if I don't concentrate, will torque on my foot/ankle
if clipped in.

I would definitely ask them all the questions you like until you fully
understand the pedals you're buying. I would also recommend having
them adjust them, but you may find more tweaking is required later,
even with plenty of float. I think I spent 5-6 rides getting mine
dialed in. At first I noticed discomfort after ~30 minutes or so
(badly adjusted), but later I didn't notice until I'd been out for an
hour or more (slight tweaks).

Tweaking was straightforward for me (for adjustment guidelines, see
http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm, especially the sections on medial and
lateral knee pain). I had never thought much about which way my toes
pointed before I bought clipless pedals.

At one point during the tweaking phase I had to take a couple of days
off the bike after I *thought* I had them adjusted properly and
neglected to take a screwdriver on a long ride. My left knee told me
in no uncertain terms that I didn't get it right and I spent two days
begging my knee to forgive me.

Once you get them dialed in, though, they are wonderful. I never
realized how much pain I was accustomed to with toe clips digging into
my feet.

David L. Johnson said:

Badger_South said:

This wknd I'm gonna drag myself to the LBS to get a pair of clipless
pedals and shoes and at least be able to try it out. I'll bring the bike
and ask the nice guys at Performance if they'll install them for me. Would
it be normal to ask they look at the 'float' and stuff and help me get
them adjusted, or is that too much to ask?

They should get you adjusted properly, but that is not easy to do, and
frankly I'd expect them to not spend as much time on it as you really
should. Be prepared to have to fiddle with the adjustments on your own,
to get it right.

I presume something you can intuit from using them. OK. At least by having
them spend some time I will be able to ask questions and see what they
adjust and tweak, even if one quickly.

Quoted message said:

Several points:

You will fall. Live with it. You will fall when you roll to a stop,
then remember that you are clipped in a half-second too late, and forget
how to get out. But you won't be moving, so the only injury will be to
your pride.

If you've followed the ng back last year you will see that I have trained
extensively for the 0mph fall over, or what I call an "Arte" (Arte Johnson
tricycle guy Laugh-in) I've fallen 4-6 times like this and mostly just get
muddy or something. (oopsie doo) Usually b/c I'm being silly, although once
on a U-turn in the rain. Didn't slow enough and somehow came to a dead stop
and fell over to my 10 oclock. Nice imprint of my bar ends on my lower
ribs. lol.

Quoted message said:

Make sure to get the angle adjusted correctly. Most pedals now have some

Angle of...?

Quoted message said:

float, so it would not seem to be critical, but spd's usually still have
some tension to them that rotates your foot to one spot. Speedplay Frogs
have totally free float, but they take somewhat longer to adjust to. I
love them, but they may or may not be for you. Performance is probably
not going to recommend them, either.

If you do get spd's, make sure to get the angle adjusted correctly. I
hurt my knee once on a tour, and blame it on mis-adjusted cleats.

SPDs. OK. Specifically, how did the injury manifest? Temporary I hope.

Quoted message said:

Get mountain-bike style cleats and shoes. It is far better to be able to
actually walk in the shoes. Get the stiffest shoe you can find.

Check. I had thought about this, but I really don't walk around off the
bike, mostly b/c I can't walk too well with a hip injury. Though it would
be nice to 'walk' into the house and not tear up the floor bringing thebike
inside. ;-)

Although my foot feels stable with the toe clips, and I've never had to
yank a foot out I am kind of tired of the imprecision. Is it a problem
mounting? Do you just clip in the left and do a cowboy mount, then clip in
the right?

Thanks a bunch!

-B

Roger Zoul said:

I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot. That
was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn thing
happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both feet.

{snip}

Quoted message said:

When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.

Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9% of riders
do.

Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or trail)? Or
are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high, maybe?) Sounds like
something's going on that you could work on to correct.

Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
|||
||| I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot. That
||| was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn thing
||| happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both feet.
||
|| {snip}
||
||| When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.
||
|| Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
|| Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9%
|| of riders do.

I don't mine some attention at all, if it has to do with riding technique.

The first time I fell, I clipped out only one foot. I twas probably due to
the features of the road and my inexperience that resulted in my fall.
Someone here suggested to me the business about clipping out both feet, so I
do that as a matter of routine.

How can you know what 99.9% of riders do? 🙂

||
|| Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or
|| trail)? Or are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high,
|| maybe?) Sounds like something's going on that you could work on to
|| correct.

I've only fallen 4 times, and 3 of those were on my first major ride while
clipless (as described above). I don't think I have a problem falling. I
have not slipped or lost balance. My 4 falls have mostly had to do with
thinking I'm clipped out while I'm really clipped in. More about not really
knowing where my foot is relative to the peddle.

At intersections I usually start up with both feet clipped out and riding on
the SPDs. I clip in asap, though 🙂

||
|| Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

Hmm....

Roger Zoul said:

B i l l S o r n s o n said:

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot.
> That was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn
> thing happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both
> feet.

{snip}

> When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.

Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9%
of riders do.

I don't mine some attention at all, if it has to do with riding
technique.

The first time I fell, I clipped out only one foot. I twas probably
due to the features of the road and my inexperience that resulted in
my fall. Someone here suggested to me the business about clipping out
both feet, so I do that as a matter of routine.

How can you know what 99.9% of riders do? 🙂

I'm a pollster 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or
trail)? Or are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high,
maybe?) Sounds like something's going on that you could work on to
correct.

I've only fallen 4 times, and 3 of those were on my first major ride
while clipless (as described above). I don't think I have a problem
falling. I have not slipped or lost balance. My 4 falls have mostly
had to do with thinking I'm clipped out while I'm really clipped in.
More about not really knowing where my foot is relative to the peddle.

At intersections I usually start up with both feet clipped out and
riding on the SPDs. I clip in asap, though 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

Hmm....

I'm late for a massage (tough life), so I'll leave it at that. If what
you're doing is working, then don't fix it.

Bill "never mind" S.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:53:31 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
|| empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip in
|| and out, then you can begin to ride.

I did all of this. I spent two hours at teh LBS on the trainer...I left
when the starting making grumbling noises 🙂 But the cute bike shop girl
probably doesn't suspect that I was just trying to be in her presense (well,
that too).

I'm -so- glad you chirped in here, b/c I don't know if I'd have thought of
that, getting on the trainer at the LBS and making sure the shoes were snug
and the cleats adjusted, and that my knee wouldn't be hurting. Don't think
they'll let me go 2 hours....you're kidding right? Either that or you're
exceptionally charming. Anyway, Brilliant!

When I called Performance they seemed puzzled at first, but then said 'sure
you could ride on the trainer'. They had a bunch of bikes on trainers set
up in front anyway. I asked if I could bring my bike in and if they would
swap 'em out for me as part of the package with my current pedals. I'll
have to get a pedal wrench anyway, incase something starts acting up and I
need to temp. switch back to toeclips, and also see how they get the pedals
off. I know it's simple.

I'm going in today. Yeehaw.

-B

Badger_South wrote:
|| On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:53:31 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
||||| empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip
||||| in
||||| and out, then you can begin to ride.
|||
||| I did all of this. I spent two hours at teh LBS on the trainer...I
||| left when the starting making grumbling noises 🙂 But the cute
||| bike shop girl probably doesn't suspect that I was just trying to
||| be in her presense (well, that too).
||
|| I'm -so- glad you chirped in here, b/c I don't know if I'd have
|| thought of that, getting on the trainer at the LBS and making sure
|| the shoes were snug and the cleats adjusted, and that my knee
|| wouldn't be hurting. Don't think they'll let me go 2 hours....you're
|| kidding right? Either that or you're exceptionally charming.
|| Anyway, Brilliant!
||

No, I'm not kidding 🙂 Being nice, smiling a lot, and spending money all
seem to work. Honestly, I really wanted to ask the girl out, but since she's
10 years younger than I, I chickened out 🙁 Maybe next year.

|| When I called Performance they seemed puzzled at first, but then
|| said 'sure you could ride on the trainer'. They had a bunch of bikes
|| on trainers set
|| up in front anyway. I asked if I could bring my bike in and if they
|| would swap 'em out for me as part of the package with my current
|| pedals. I'll
|| have to get a pedal wrench anyway, incase something starts acting up
|| and I need to temp. switch back to toeclips, and also see how they
|| get the pedals off. I know it's simple.

I'm not sure why they were puzzled, but who knows. Probably just the
employee you spoke with.

||
|| I'm going in today. Yeehaw.
||

Good deal. Practicing while riding on the grass ain't a bad idea, either.

Badger_South said:

Quoted message said:

Make sure to get the angle adjusted correctly. Most pedals now have some

Angle of...?

Angle of rotation of your foot. This is an individual thing, but you want
your foot's position to be as natural as possible. If your pedals is
putting pressure on your foot to rotate it away from where it naturally
is, that is bad. Look at the soles of the shoes you usually wear riding,
they should have a ridge where your current pedal hits. That is a strong
clue for how to angle the new cleats.

Fore-and-aft adjustment is also important, but for me this has always
been easier to get right. One nice thing about the Frogs is that the
angle is not critical, and your foot gets to be positioned as it wants to
be. But they also provide no support for that part of the foot position,
and you have to learn to keep your foot oriented properly on your own.
One bit of your description of your riding indicated that this may not be
good for you. Some people want/need to have the angle of the foot secured
by the pedal. If that is your feeling, get 0 or minimal float.

Quoted message said:

SPDs. OK. Specifically, how did the injury manifest? Temporary I hope.

It was diagnosed as an over-use injury. I went in complaining of knee
pain that appeared after about 30 miles. Most of the nurses/doctors
laughed at me, thinking that 30 miles was almost unimaginable. I finally
found one who got it. He recommended the switch of pedals, along with a
few weeks off the bike, and I've been fine since.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Get mountain-bike style cleats and shoes. It is far better to be able
to actually walk in the shoes. Get the stiffest shoe you can find.

Check. I had thought about this, but I really don't walk around off the
bike, mostly b/c I can't walk too well with a hip injury.

It'd be even worse with road style cleats, which force anyone to walk like
a duck. Slips and falls are also a problem with road shoes/cleats.

Quoted message said:

Although my foot feels stable with the toe clips, and I've never had to
yank a foot out I am kind of tired of the imprecision. Is it a problem
mounting? Do you just clip in the left and do a cowboy mount, then clip
in the right?

I don't do a cowboy mount. I straddle the bar, clip in the left foot,
start rolling, and grab the right pedal. Most clipless pedals engage
pretty easily by just pressing down with your foot.

I just "restored" my old track bike to the original equipment, as much as
I could, to participate in a parade with a bunch of vintage bikes (mine
is ~35 years old) Put the old pedals and clips back on. It was a RPITA to
get back into the toe-clips today. I can't imagine doing that all the
time.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
_`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

You will fall. Live with it. You will fall when you roll to a stop,
then remember that you are clipped in a half-second too late, and forget
how to get out. But you won't be moving, so the only injury will be to
your pride.

This is an addendum to Murphy's Law. You will fall when the
maximum possible number of motorists and other onlookers are
watching.

The last time I went splat, I was coming to a stop in a
crowded parking lot. I'd just had cleats put in a pair of
shoes I wasn't used to, it was way too hard to get out of,
and I couldn't unclip. So I come to a stop and... plop.

My husband said he was thinking, "Why is she pretending to
fall over?" right up until the moment I hit the ground
squawking. *sigh*

Quoted message said:

Get mountain-bike style cleats and shoes. It is far better to be able to
actually walk in the shoes.

Unless you *really* like walking like a duck. *grin*

-km, "Quack quack, waddle waddle, quack quack, waddle waddle..."

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

one small tip - which helped me in the learning process:

to properly align the cleats on the pedals:
fix a small thin tape or something on the inner side of the shoe -
which corresponds to the stem of the pedal (in clipped in position) -
basically when clipped in, the tape should like along with the stem of
the pedal.

When clipping in, you can use this tape to help align the pedal and the
cleat. Once you are comfortable, the tape can be removed and you know
intuitively where your cleat/pedal is.

i started off with clipless (never used clips - except for test rides) -
so may be it was me who had issues of locating the pedal.

+ravi

Badger_South said:

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:53:31 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
|| empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip in
|| and out, then you can begin to ride.

I did all of this. I spent two hours at teh LBS on the trainer...I left
when the starting making grumbling noises 🙂 But the cute bike shop girl
probably doesn't suspect that I was just trying to be in her presense (well,
that too).

I'm -so- glad you chirped in here, b/c I don't know if I'd have thought of
that, getting on the trainer at the LBS and making sure the shoes were snug
and the cleats adjusted, and that my knee wouldn't be hurting. Don't think
they'll let me go 2 hours....you're kidding right? Either that or you're
exceptionally charming. Anyway, Brilliant!

When I called Performance they seemed puzzled at first, but then said 'sure
you could ride on the trainer'. They had a bunch of bikes on trainers set
up in front anyway. I asked if I could bring my bike in and if they would
swap 'em out for me as part of the package with my current pedals. I'll
have to get a pedal wrench anyway, incase something starts acting up and I
need to temp. switch back to toeclips, and also see how they get the pedals
off. I know it's simple.

I'm going in today. Yeehaw.

-B