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Light dawns...

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Road Cycling
Published
28 October 2004
Last activity
11 November 2004
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Badger_South
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  1. Claire Petersky said:

    Yeah, either you'll get her attention attention, or she'll report you as a
    stalker.

    I think you should get the hint -- she's being professionally polite to you,
    but she's Not Interested.

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky

    See, this is where 'Guys(tm)' are uh, professionally dense. I mean just
    neutron star dense.

    I had this very cute female lab partner who frequently found a reason to
    stand right next to me during experiments, and ask me questions. I mean
    uncomfortably close. As in nearly rubbing up and down on me.

    I ask my current g/f, 'what does this mean?'. She was nearly in tears. Uh
    laughing at my st00pidity, that is.

    Fortunately I've never had a chick be 'Not Interested' in me, and when I go
    to dances I always ask the cutest chick to dance and never have been turned
    down in dozens of instances.

    I consider it purely due to "Dumb Luck(tm", and not at all to anything on
    my part, looks, charm or any of that stufff.

    -B
    I'm serious.

  2. On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:52:19 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Claire Petersky wrote:
    || "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    || news:[email hidden]...
    ||| Blair P. Houghton wrote:
    ||||| Roger Zoul <[email hidden]> wrote:
    |||||| Blair P. Houghton wrote:
    |||||||| Roger Zoul <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ||
    |||||||| You could be back there every day for a month and not spend
    |||||||| more than 40, 50 grand trying to get her attention.
    ||||||
    |||||| That's funny. Every time I go in there I get her attention. She
    |||||| is very good that way, which is part of the reason I wanted to
    |||||| ask her out. But you know how that goes....I ask her out and
    |||||| then I
    |||||| get the cold shoulder...or just a polite "oh, i've got plans that
    |||||| night..."
    |||||
    ||||| So every time you go back you get her professional attention.
    |||||
    ||||| But if you keep going back for trivial reasons you'll
    ||||| get her attention attention.
    |||
    ||| Okay....I'll try that. 🙂
    ||
    || Yeah, either you'll get her attention attention, or she'll report
    || you as a stalker.
    ||
    || I think you should get the hint -- she's being professionally polite
    || to you, but she's Not Interested.

    Don't you think I realize that?

    Dude. She don't know what she's missing. Just from your posts, I can tell
    you're one of the peeps I'd most like to ride with, uh, cycle with, that
    is. <vbfg>

    -B

  3. Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:00:12 -0500, <[email hidden]>,

    Roger Zoul said:

    || And Amy, everybody is in love with Amy.
    ||
    || and Erica and Jane and Sarah and Cara and Ashley and Kelly and
    || Jessica
    || and Jennifer and Lisa and Laura and more, all about half my age.
    || We ride, we dance, we flirt, we laugh. It's fun.
    || --

    In your mind or in RL? 🙂

    Very much in RL and all since I started riding my bike again. That's
    how I can credit Uli, Jennifer and Amy with saving my life. Had it not
    been for their friendliness, intelligence and willingness to share
    their knowledge I don't know what would have become of me.
    That they're vivacious and sexy helped spark all the right synapses to
    keep my interest peaking.
    --
    zk

  4. Claire Petersky said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Blair P. Houghton wrote:
    || But if you keep going back for trivial reasons you'll
    || get her attention attention.

    Okay....I'll try that. 🙂

    Yeah, either you'll get her attention attention, or she'll report you as a
    stalker.

    The only difference between a stalker and a suitor is the
    stalker has been told "no".

    --Blair
    "They both won't listen when they hear it..."

  5. B i l l S o r n s o n said:
    Roger Zoul said:


    I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot. That
    was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn thing
    happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both feet.

    {snip}

    Quoted message said:

    When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.

    Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
    Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9% of riders
    do.

    Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or trail)? Or
    are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high, maybe?) Sounds like
    something's going on that you could work on to correct.

    Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

    What I would like to ask at this juncture is (since I don't
    understand, seriously) what would one be trying to prevent by using
    such systems?

    I'm confused by having to "clip" and "unclip" on a "clipless" system,
    additionally. I've never fully understood pedal retention systems.

    Thanks.

    Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------

  6. Roger Zoul said:

    Badger_South wrote:
    || On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:53:31 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
    || <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ||
    ||| I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
    ||||| empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip
    ||||| in
    ||||| and out, then you can begin to ride.
    |||
    ||| I did all of this. I spent two hours at teh LBS on the trainer...I
    ||| left when the starting making grumbling noises 🙂 But the cute
    ||| bike shop girl probably doesn't suspect that I was just trying to
    ||| be in her presense (well, that too).
    ||
    || I'm -so- glad you chirped in here, b/c I don't know if I'd have
    || thought of that, getting on the trainer at the LBS and making sure
    || the shoes were snug and the cleats adjusted, and that my knee
    || wouldn't be hurting. Don't think they'll let me go 2 hours....you're
    || kidding right? Either that or you're exceptionally charming.
    || Anyway, Brilliant!
    ||

    No, I'm not kidding 🙂 Being nice, smiling a lot, and spending money all
    seem to work. Honestly, I really wanted to ask the girl out, but since she's
    10 years younger than I, I chickened out 🙁 Maybe next year.

    <snip>

    Dude, by all means do not let that stop you. To a one, all of the
    women I've dated who were 15 to 20 years younger than I said that they
    specifically prefer older men. Let her decide. Go for it.

    Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------

  7. Michael J. Klein said:

    To a one, all of the women I've dated who were 15 to 20 years younger than


    I said that they specifically prefer older men.

    Those bunny ranch places train 'em to say that.

    Bill "bigger tips (I say TIPS)" S.

  8. B i l l S o r n s o n said:
    Michael J. Klein said:

    To a one, all of the women I've dated who were 15 to 20 years younger than


    I said that they specifically prefer older men.

    Those bunny ranch places train 'em to say that.

    Bill "bigger tips (I say TIPS)" S.

    Bill, its the little things in life.... 😉

    Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Michael J. Klein said:
    B i l l S o r n s o n said:
    Roger Zoul said:


    I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot. That
    was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn thing
    happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both feet.

    {snip}

    Quoted message said:

    When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.

    Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
    Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9% of riders
    do.

    Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or trail)? Or
    are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high, maybe?) Sounds like
    something's going on that you could work on to correct.

    Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

    What I would like to ask at this juncture is (since I don't
    understand, seriously) what would one be trying to prevent by using
    such systems?

    The short answer is that clipless pedals give you a solid, safe, and
    convenient link to the pedals.

    -solid: the pedals are firmly held to your feet. Under normal
    circumstances, which especially includes sprinting or any type of
    serious effort, your feet are locked to the pedals, and you will not
    lose contact with them. Having a foot slip off a pedal during a sprint
    (or even during normal riding) is not only inefficient, it's very likely
    to lead to a crash. This solid connection is so important that before
    clipless pedals, pro cyclists and serious tourists universally used
    clips and straps.

    -safe: so clipless pedals offer the solid, efficient connection of clips
    and straps. But unlike clips and straps, release is easy. With a
    cleated, strapped, toe-clip solution, a rider had to unstrap their foot
    at every rest stop, and in the event of a crash, it was unlikely that
    you could free your feet from the bike, leading to some possibly
    unpleasant injuries, mostly revolving around twisted ankles and knees.
    Clipless, despite offering the solidity and virtually all of the
    security of clips and straps, are much easier to get into and out of,
    and virtually all systems have a natural tendency to release in a crash.

    -convenient: it's easy to enter and exit clipless shoes. There's no
    dance as you come to the stoplight to make sure you can remove at least
    one foot from your pedals. There's no similar dance when you re-start
    and need to tighten up your strap again. With most pedal designs, you
    just step on the pedal with your shoe, and listen for the click. Exiting
    is usually a matter of twisting your ankle slightly outward or inward.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm confused by having to "clip" and "unclip" on a "clipless" system,
    additionally. I've never fully understood pedal retention systems.

    It's a tragedy of terminology. Since the old system of retaining pedals
    had toe-clips, and the new one did not, it was clearly a "clipless"
    system. You "clip in" because clicking into the retention mechanism is
    analgous to putting your toe into the toe clip, and thus the old phrase
    lives on.

    Clipless rocks. I started out using un-cleated toe clips and loose
    straps when I began commuting. This was an adequate system, but when
    combined with a fairly soft-soled shoe, it wasn't ideal. A pair of
    stiff-soled cycling shoes helped a lot, and I added some clipless pedals
    at the same time. Compared to the loose straps of before, the clipless
    pedals offered securer foot retention (you can slip your foot out
    backwards by accident in loose straps) greater efficiency (cleats that
    locked your foot in place were key to the retention and efficiency of
    clip-and-strap systems; I wasn't going to risk that), and ease of entry
    and exit (loose-strapped toe clips probably aren't notably harder to
    stick your foot into than a clipless pedal is to clip your foot to, but
    they are less efficient). Since clipless combined power and efficiency
    that matched strapped clips with the ease of entry and exit of loose toe
    clips, plus a dose of safety neither system had, it immediately took
    over most of the the clips and straps market.

    Not going back,
    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
    Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

  10. Ryan Cousineau said:


    Clipless rocks. I started out using un-cleated toe clips and loose
    straps when I began commuting. This was an adequate system, but when
    combined with a fairly soft-soled shoe, it wasn't ideal. A pair of
    stiff-soled cycling shoes helped a lot, and I added some clipless pedals
    at the same time. Compared to the loose straps of before, the clipless
    pedals offered securer foot retention (you can slip your foot out
    backwards by accident in loose straps) greater efficiency (cleats that
    locked your foot in place were key to the retention and efficiency of
    clip-and-strap systems; I wasn't going to risk that), and ease of entry
    and exit (loose-strapped toe clips probably aren't notably harder to
    stick your foot into than a clipless pedal is to clip your foot to, but
    they are less efficient). Since clipless combined power and efficiency
    that matched strapped clips with the ease of entry and exit of loose toe
    clips, plus a dose of safety neither system had, it immediately took
    over most of the the clips and straps market.

    Yet there are benefits to the "loose clips and straps" method,
    especially on a utility or commuting bike.

    I try to keep that bike ready for use as a practical vehicle. That
    means I want it to be as easy to use as my car. And I can't imagine
    having to put on a particular pair of shoes to drive my car!

    Clips and straps allow me to jump on my bike and ride to the library
    (about 3 blocks away) or the grocery (about 1 mile away) or the mall
    (about 3 miles away) or work (about 7 miles away) without even thinking
    about my footwear.

    Am I less efficient? Hard to say. Before the big switch to clipless, I
    was stronger than almost all the guys I ride with. After they made the
    switch and I didn't, I was still stronger. If it helped them, it must
    not have helped much!

    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Frank Krygowski said:
    Ryan Cousineau said:


    Clipless rocks. I started out using un-cleated toe clips and loose
    straps when I began commuting. This was an adequate system, but when
    combined with a fairly soft-soled shoe, it wasn't ideal. A pair of
    stiff-soled cycling shoes helped a lot, and I added some clipless pedals
    at the same time. Compared to the loose straps of before, the clipless
    pedals offered securer foot retention (you can slip your foot out
    backwards by accident in loose straps) greater efficiency (cleats that
    locked your foot in place were key to the retention and efficiency of
    clip-and-strap systems; I wasn't going to risk that), and ease of entry
    and exit (loose-strapped toe clips probably aren't notably harder to
    stick your foot into than a clipless pedal is to clip your foot to, but
    they are less efficient). Since clipless combined power and efficiency
    that matched strapped clips with the ease of entry and exit of loose toe
    clips, plus a dose of safety neither system had, it immediately took
    over most of the the clips and straps market.

    Yet there are benefits to the "loose clips and straps" method,
    especially on a utility or commuting bike.

    I try to keep that bike ready for use as a practical vehicle. That
    means I want it to be as easy to use as my car. And I can't imagine
    having to put on a particular pair of shoes to drive my car!

    I don't know about you, but I am in socks or bare feet most of the time
    in my house. Going outside usually means putting on some pair of shoes,
    it's just a matter of which ones.

    I am standardized on SPDs, so they are usable for walking, though I
    would want something other than my stiff-soled bike shoes for anything
    longer than a stroll around the mall. That said, I had a problem on my
    bike yesterday which saw me walk a couple of miles to my destination.
    The really funny part was that I, walking in SPD shoes, towing my
    flat-tired bike, was able to keep pace with an extraordinarily slow
    jogger for about a mile. I think she finally got a block ahead of me.

    Quoted message said:

    Clips and straps allow me to jump on my bike and ride to the library
    (about 3 blocks away) or the grocery (about 1 mile away) or the mall
    (about 3 miles away) or work (about 7 miles away) without even thinking
    about my footwear.

    Much more than my footwear, my sweaty body limits my ability to jump on
    a bike without thinking. I actually do have a bike with flat pedals
    around, and frequently use it for short, lazy neighbourhood trips. Once
    I'm up to a 30-minute round trip on the bike, though, I prefer to wear
    "technical" synthetics to deal with sweat and such, and that means
    changing into bike clothes. Work is a half-hour away (12 km or so, but
    on a hilly route), and I consider a shower and change mandatory after
    that ride. I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

    Quoted message said:

    Am I less efficient? Hard to say. Before the big switch to clipless, I
    was stronger than almost all the guys I ride with. After they made the
    switch and I didn't, I was still stronger. If it helped them, it must
    not have helped much!

    it's a marginal performance advantage, but I really enjoyed the comfort
    and safety advantages of clipless over loose clips, especially when
    using walkable systems like SPD or Eggbeaters.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
    Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

  12. Ryan Cousineau said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    Frank Krygowski <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I try to keep that bike ready for use as a practical vehicle. That
    means I want it to be as easy to use as my car. And I can't imagine
    having to put on a particular pair of shoes to drive my car!

    I don't know about you, but I am in socks or bare feet most of the time
    in my house. Going outside usually means putting on some pair of shoes,
    it's just a matter of which ones.

    Not me. For whatever reason, I'm shod from morning till night.
    Different strokes, I guess.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Clips and straps allow me to jump on my bike and ride to the library
    (about 3 blocks away) or the grocery (about 1 mile away) or the mall
    (about 3 miles away) or work (about 7 miles away) without even thinking
    about my footwear.

    Much more than my footwear, my sweaty body limits my ability to jump on
    a bike without thinking. I actually do have a bike with flat pedals
    around, and frequently use it for short, lazy neighbourhood trips. Once
    I'm up to a 30-minute round trip on the bike, though, I prefer to wear
    "technical" synthetics to deal with sweat and such, and that means
    changing into bike clothes. Work is a half-hour away (12 km or so, but
    on a hilly route), and I consider a shower and change mandatory after
    that ride. I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

    Yes, my work is also half an hour away. The tough climb is on the way
    home, and depending on my route choice, I'll have between one and three
    smaller hills on the way in. I get there a little sweaty - but no so
    much that it bothers me or anyone else. (Trust me, I've checked.) I've
    never needed to take a shower, although they're available about 1/4 mile
    away.

    I appreciate making cycling a "normal" part of life. For me, that
    includes normal clothes, normal shoes, and at least one bike that's
    always ready to ride with no special preparation, etc.

    As I said, different strokes.

    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  13. "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

    Pair? Singular pair?

    If you open up one of my file drawers at work, you'll find one pair black,
    one pair navy, one pair bone, and one pair tan, plus a pair of tennis shoes
    I keep in the back in case we have an earthquake.

    The nice thing about really only wearing your work shoes in the office
    (maybe a for a block or two on the street to get lunch, if you didn't put it
    in your bike bag) is that they hardly show any wear. I bought this last set
    of pumps in the above colors (I keep the red ones at home) at a Nordstrom's
    half-yearly sale now years ago, and they are still doing quite well. I tend
    to buy all my clothes in pretty standard, classic colors/styles so I can
    ignore the fashions when they go in and out. Probably saves quite a bit of
    money.

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
    Home of the meditative cyclist:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
    Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
    See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

  14. Cheto said:


    "Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]..

    Quoted message said:

    So what happens the first day I ride for serious on them?

    You fall on your ass at the very first intersection you come to. :-) You
    might fall a couple of times; I fell a grand total of three times. But then
    you get used to them and can't imagine riding without them. And when you do
    ride a bike with out them, it feels really weird.

    Pfft, you're forgetting the most important part. This will invariably
    happen in front of at least one if not more of a set of very attractive
    members of the appropriate sex.

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
    You don't have to think too hard when you talk to teachers.
    -- J. D. Salinger

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Frank Krygowski said:
    Ryan Cousineau said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    Frank Krygowski <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Much more than my footwear, my sweaty body limits my ability to jump on
    a bike without thinking. I actually do have a bike with flat pedals
    around, and frequently use it for short, lazy neighbourhood trips. Once
    I'm up to a 30-minute round trip on the bike, though, I prefer to wear
    "technical" synthetics to deal with sweat and such, and that means
    changing into bike clothes. Work is a half-hour away (12 km or so, but
    on a hilly route), and I consider a shower and change mandatory after
    that ride. I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

    Yes, my work is also half an hour away. The tough climb is on the way
    home, and depending on my route choice, I'll have between one and three
    smaller hills on the way in. I get there a little sweaty - but no so
    much that it bothers me or anyone else. (Trust me, I've checked.) I've
    never needed to take a shower, although they're available about 1/4 mile
    away.

    My work has on-site shower facilities, so it's no hardship for me to
    take my morning shower after I get there rather than before I leave. I
    have a theory that if I took 45 minutes to do my commute, and put a
    third ring on the front of my commuter, I might be able to do the ride
    without serious sweatiness, most of the year. But there's about 400' of
    gain on my commute (in both directions; I have to ride over a ridge and
    through a river watershed, all in between endpoints that are each about
    50' above sea level) which is laughing at that idea. Regardless, slowing
    my commute that much would mean that it took just as much time as going
    fast and taking a shower, but with less exercise benefit.

    Quoted message said:

    I appreciate making cycling a "normal" part of life. For me, that
    includes normal clothes, normal shoes, and at least one bike that's
    always ready to ride with no special preparation, etc.

    I can and have ridden some of my special bikes by putting on the special
    shoes (which are about as special and cost me less than my brown dress
    shoes) and tucking my pants into my sock.

    Quoted message said:

    As I said, different strokes.

    No no no! Say it "de gustibus non est disputandum." It sounds much
    better that way.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
    Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Claire Petersky said:

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

    Pair? Singular pair?

    Technically, I have two pair of shoes at work right now, but one pair is
    for intramural indoor soccer on Thursdays. Where I work, eyebrow-raising
    casual footwear probably starts at flip-flops, at least for anyone below
    VP-level management.

    Quoted message said:

    If you open up one of my file drawers at work, you'll find one pair black,
    one pair navy, one pair bone, and one pair tan, plus a pair of tennis shoes
    I keep in the back in case we have an earthquake.

    I wear beat-up runners.

    Quoted message said:

    The nice thing about really only wearing your work shoes in the office
    (maybe a for a block or two on the street to get lunch, if you didn't put it
    in your bike bag) is that they hardly show any wear. I bought this last set
    of pumps in the above colors (I keep the red ones at home) at a Nordstrom's
    half-yearly sale now years ago, and they are still doing quite well. I tend
    to buy all my clothes in pretty standard, classic colors/styles so I can
    ignore the fashions when they go in and out. Probably saves quite a bit of
    money.

    You're right about the low wear. I notice the same thing with my shoes.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
    Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

  17. Claire Petersky said:

    I tend
    to buy all my clothes in pretty standard, classic colors/styles so I can
    ignore the fashions when they go in and out. Probably saves quite a bit of
    money.

    That sounds almost guy-ish!

    Quoted message said:

    If you open up one of my file drawers at work, you'll find one pair


    black,

    Quoted message said:

    one pair navy, one pair bone, and one pair tan...

    But of course, that doesn't. ;-)

    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  18. On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 00:28:41 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Michael J. Klein said:
    B i l l S o r n s o n said:

    Roger Zoul wrote:
    >
    > I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot. That
    > was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn thing
    > happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both feet.

    {snip}

    > When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.

    Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
    Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9% of riders
    do.

    Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or trail)? Or
    are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high, maybe?) Sounds like
    something's going on that you could work on to correct.

    Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

    What I would like to ask at this juncture is (since I don't
    understand, seriously) what would one be trying to prevent by using
    such systems?

    The short answer is that clipless pedals give you a solid, safe, and
    convenient link to the pedals.

    -solid: the pedals are firmly held to your feet. Under normal
    circumstances, which especially includes sprinting or any type of
    serious effort, your feet are locked to the pedals, and you will not
    lose contact with them. Having a foot slip off a pedal during a sprint
    (or even during normal riding) is not only inefficient, it's very likely
    to lead to a crash. This solid connection is so important that before
    clipless pedals, pro cyclists and serious tourists universally used
    clips and straps.

    My feet seem to stay on the pedals fine. Of course, I don't sprint or
    do any competetive stuff, or tricks, stunts, etc., either. I just
    ride to the train station or to another neighborhood for dinner.

    Quoted message said:

    -safe: so clipless pedals offer the solid, efficient connection of clips
    and straps. But unlike clips and straps, release is easy. With a
    cleated, strapped, toe-clip solution, a rider had to unstrap their foot
    at every rest stop, and in the event of a crash, it was unlikely that
    you could free your feet from the bike, leading to some possibly
    unpleasant injuries, mostly revolving around twisted ankles and knees.
    Clipless, despite offering the solidity and virtually all of the
    security of clips and straps, are much easier to get into and out of,
    and virtually all systems have a natural tendency to release in a crash.

    I have heard enough people talking about not being able to "unclip"
    fast enough at a stop, or not yet having developed the instinctive
    motion. Where I live that would be extremely dangerous.

    Quoted message said:

    -convenient: it's easy to enter and exit clipless shoes. There's no
    dance as you come to the stoplight to make sure you can remove at least
    one foot from your pedals. There's no similar dance when you re-start
    and need to tighten up your strap again. With most pedal designs, you
    just step on the pedal with your shoe, and listen for the click. Exiting
    is usually a matter of twisting your ankle slightly outward or inward.

    You do have to have special shoes though.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm confused by having to "clip" and "unclip" on a "clipless" system,
    additionally. I've never fully understood pedal retention systems.

    It's a tragedy of terminology. Since the old system of retaining pedals
    had toe-clips, and the new one did not, it was clearly a "clipless"
    system. You "clip in" because clicking into the retention mechanism is
    analgous to putting your toe into the toe clip, and thus the old phrase
    lives on.

    Ahhh, convention at work again lol. No wonder I was confused!

    Quoted message said:

    Clipless rocks. I started out using un-cleated toe clips and loose
    straps when I began commuting. This was an adequate system, but when
    combined with a fairly soft-soled shoe, it wasn't ideal. A pair of
    stiff-soled cycling shoes helped a lot, and I added some clipless pedals
    at the same time. Compared to the loose straps of before, the clipless
    pedals offered securer foot retention (you can slip your foot out
    backwards by accident in loose straps) greater efficiency (cleats that
    locked your foot in place were key to the retention and efficiency of
    clip-and-strap systems; I wasn't going to risk that), and ease of entry
    and exit (loose-strapped toe clips probably aren't notably harder to
    stick your foot into than a clipless pedal is to clip your foot to, but
    they are less efficient). Since clipless combined power and efficiency
    that matched strapped clips with the ease of entry and exit of loose toe
    clips, plus a dose of safety neither system had, it immediately took
    over most of the the clips and straps market.

    Not going back,

    Ryan, thanks again for your usual complete answer to my question.
    What is comes down to is the fact that my hiking shoes stay on the
    pedals well enough that I never feel insecure about it. Having my
    feet held to the pedals just seems wrong to me.

    Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------

  19. On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:10:23 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Claire Petersky said:

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

    Pair? Singular pair?

    Technically, I have two pair of shoes at work right now, but one pair is
    for intramural indoor soccer on Thursdays. Where I work, eyebrow-raising
    casual footwear probably starts at flip-flops, at least for anyone below
    VP-level management.

    I have a single pair of shoes - hikers. Everything else I wear is a
    sandal. I have a pair for inside the house, and several for outside
    wear, depending up the distance from home.

    This is Asia, after all.
    <snip>

    Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------

  20. Dane Jackson said:
    Cheto said:


    "Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]..

    Quoted message said:

    So what happens the first day I ride for serious on them?

    You fall on your ass at the very first intersection you come to. :-) You
    might fall a couple of times; I fell a grand total of three times. But then
    you get used to them and can't imagine riding without them. And when you do
    ride a bike with out them, it feels really weird.

    Pfft, you're forgetting the most important part. This will invariably
    happen in front of at least one if not more of a set of very attractive
    members of the appropriate sex.

    I'll have you know that when I stopped in front of the
    hottie-next-door the other day, I clipped out like James
    Bond stripping off his shoulder holster.

    --Blair
    "She's married, or my Walther PPK
    would've hit the nightstand."

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