Carbon creaking

Larry Coon said:

I have a Trek 5200 (OCLV carbon, Ultegra components)
with about 500 miles on it. I'm getting a loud
creak when I'm climbing. It's louder when I'm
sitting than when I'm standing.

Both of my sets of pedals/shoes creak on the Trek
and neither do on my steel frame bike, so it's not
that.

I'm thinking it's the seatpost and/or bottom bracket.
My mechanical experience is with a few generations
of bikes ago, so I don't want to go adding grease
without checking here first. Is there any problem
with adding grease on a carbon seatpost/frame
combination, or onto the crank/bb junction (I guess
it's not a taper any more, is it?) on an Ultegra?

Or does anybody have any other suggestions?

Thanks.

My 5200 year 2001, has creaked in two different places. Stem and handlebar
joint. Just greased the bolts and retightened.
BB. Opened up the BB and greased it. It is of course a cartridge, but I
cleaned and greased everything that was in contact with anything else and
chucked it back in again. Had to get two special tools for this. One was a
couple of dollars and the other maybe 20-30.
After retightening the creaking has stopped.
*But* retightening the BB took a long time. Like I had to tighten it half a
turn after every ride for a long time afterwards.

--
Perre

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Quoted message said:

Is there any problem
with adding grease on a carbon seatpost/frame
combination, or onto the crank/bb junction (I guess
it's not a taper any more, is it?) on an Ultegra?

Do not, ever, put grease on a seatpost that goes into a TREK OCLV frame.
The grease will eat into the special coating that's on the inside of the
tube, and it will also require that excessive force be used to keep it from
slipping. No grease in that region, please.

As for noises, check out this page on our website-
http://www.chainreaction.com/noises.htm.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

"Larry Coon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a Trek 5200 (OCLV carbon, Ultegra components)
with about 500 miles on it. I'm getting a loud
creak when I'm climbing. It's louder when I'm
sitting than when I'm standing.

Both of my sets of pedals/shoes creak on the Trek
and neither do on my steel frame bike, so it's not
that.

I'm thinking it's the seatpost and/or bottom bracket.
My mechanical experience is with a few generations
of bikes ago, so I don't want to go adding grease
without checking here first. Is there any problem
with adding grease on a carbon seatpost/frame
combination, or onto the crank/bb junction (I guess
it's not a taper any more, is it?) on an Ultegra?

Or does anybody have any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

Do not, ever, put grease on a seatpost that goes into a TREK OCLV frame.
The grease will eat into the special coating that's on the inside of the
tube, and it will also require that excessive force be used to keep it from
slipping. No grease in that region, please.

Thanks, Mike. It was the prospect of advice such as
this that made me want to check here first.

Quoted message said:

As for noises, check out this page on our website-
http://www.chainreaction.com/noises.htm.

Good read...thanks. Looks like I've already eliminated
your #1 source (shoes/cleats/pedals) by trying different
sets. As near as I can tell it's the BB, but since I get
more noise sitting down than standing up I wasn't ruling
out the seatpost. It -sounds- like it's the BB, but I
know that can be deceiving. I'm almost positive it's not
the bar/stem, unless my bike was Edgar Bergen in a past
life.

Larry Coon
University of California

Larry Coon said:

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

Do not, ever, put grease on a seatpost that goes into a TREK OCLV frame.
The grease will eat into the special coating that's on the inside of the
tube, and it will also require that excessive force be used to keep it from
slipping. No grease in that region, please.

Thanks, Mike. It was the prospect of advice such as
this that made me want to check here first.

Quoted message said:

As for noises, check out this page on our website-
http://www.chainreaction.com/noises.htm.

Good read...thanks. Looks like I've already eliminated
your #1 source (shoes/cleats/pedals) by trying different
sets. As near as I can tell it's the BB, but since I get
more noise sitting down than standing up I wasn't ruling
out the seatpost. It -sounds- like it's the BB, but I
know that can be deceiving. I'm almost positive it's not
the bar/stem, unless my bike was Edgar Bergen in a past
life.

Larry Coon
University of California

I had a hidden noise similar, turned out
to be the saddle (a cheap Contour model
from Performance) was bending in the
middle. I slid the saddle rails forward
in the clamp, they were back pretty far
as a starting adjustment point, until it
stopped.

"Larry Coon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a Trek 5200 (OCLV carbon, Ultegra components)
with about 500 miles on it. I'm getting a loud
creak when I'm climbing. It's louder when I'm
sitting than when I'm standing.

Both of my sets of pedals/shoes creak on the Trek
and neither do on my steel frame bike, so it's not
that.

I'm thinking it's the seatpost and/or bottom bracket.
My mechanical experience is with a few generations
of bikes ago, so I don't want to go adding grease
without checking here first. Is there any problem
with adding grease on a carbon seatpost/frame
combination, or onto the crank/bb junction (I guess
it's not a taper any more, is it?) on an Ultegra?

Or does anybody have any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Just last week I had a new creak I had to hunt down. It was only happening
when climbing -- standing or sitting, but especially standing. I re-greased
the skewers and tightened the quick-releases a bit more and it stopped.

Bob C.

icnospam-<< I have a Trek 5200 (OCLV carbon, Ultegra components)
with about 500 miles on it. I'm getting a loud
creak when I'm climbing. It's louder when I'm
sitting than when I'm standing.

Both of my sets of pedals/shoes creak on the Trek
and neither do on my steel frame bike, so it's not
that. >><BR><BR>

Another great assembly by the bike shop I see. have the place you bought it
take the BB out and lube, both inside the shell and inside the left cup. Grease
onto the plines, tighten to torque.

Grease inside the seat tube.
Also tight lockring with a little grasso on the oiutside of the freehub body.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Mike J-<< Do not, ever, put grease on a seatpost that goes into a TREK OCLV
frame.
The grease will eat into the special coating that's on the inside of the
tube, and it will also require that excessive force be used to keep it from
slipping. No grease in that region, please. >><BR><BR>

Question then....aluminum seatpopst fuzed into a 5200 frame...said 'never' had
any grease in there......

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

Mike J-<< Do not, ever, put grease on a seatpost that goes into a TREK
OCLV
frame.
The grease will eat into the special coating that's on the inside of the
tube, and it will also require that excessive force be used to keep it
from
slipping. No grease in that region, please. >><BR><BR>

Question then....aluminum seatpopst fuzed into a 5200 frame...said 'never'
had
any grease in there......

Obviously, I'd question that. Perhaps the customer hadn't, but maybe some
shop somewhere down the line did. The coating on the inside of the seat
tube pretty much eliminates the possibility of galvanic corrosion (which I
assume is what you're looking at).

We've sold, what, 3,000 OCLV bicycles? And never had a fused seatpost. I
have seen a couple that were very tight, but nothing that wasn't removable.
As a result, I have no magic fixes for you. If it's still stuck, send me a
note and I'll see what I can find out for you.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike J-<< Do not, ever, put grease on a seatpost that goes into a TREK
OCLV
frame.
The grease will eat into the special coating that's on the inside of the
tube, and it will also require that excessive force be used to keep it
from
slipping. No grease in that region, please. >><BR><BR>

Question then....aluminum seatpopst fuzed into a 5200 frame...said 'never'
had
any grease in there......

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Richard Tack said:

I had a hidden noise similar, turned out
to be the saddle (a cheap Contour model
from Performance) was bending in the
middle.

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure it's not
the saddle. For one, it still happens when I'm
standing on the pedals. It's *louder* when I'm
sitting down, so that doesn't rule out the saddle
as a second source of noise, but I really think
it's one sound that is louder when I'm sitting
down rather than two sounds (such as BB + seat)
that combine to make a louder sound.

Quoted message said:

I slid the saddle rails forward
in the clamp, they were back pretty far
as a starting adjustment point, until it
stopped.

My seat is in the right position front/back
relative to my pedals, so doing this wouldn't be
my first option.

Larry Coon
University of California

psycholist said:

Just last week I had a new creak I had to hunt down. It was only happening
when climbing -- standing or sitting, but especially standing. I re-greased
the skewers and tightened the quick-releases a bit more and it stopped.

Thanks for the suggestion. I played with it last night,
and it wasn't the wheels/skewers. I'm now nearly positive
it's the BB.

Larry Coon
University of California

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Another great assembly by the bike shop I see.

Thanks for the reply, Peter. In the LBS' defense, installing
the BB & crank isn't part of the out-of-the-box assembly, is
it? And it didn't start happening to me until about 200 miles
were on the bike, so I don't expect them to have found it.

Quoted message said:

have the place you bought it
take the BB out and lube, both inside the shell and inside the left cup. Grease
onto the plines, tighten to torque.

Even though it's warranty, I'll do it myself. But a question
about greasing the splines. I remember that with square tapered
spindles, the rule was to NOT apply grease, since it led to
overtightening which could damage the taper. Is greasing not an
issue with the current Shimano stuff?

Quoted message said:

Grease inside the seat tube.

I'm hearing conflicting advice about this. Since it's creaking
when I'm off the saddle, perhaps I'll leave the seatpost 'til
last. :-)

Quoted message said:

Also tight lockring with a little grasso on the oiutside of the freehub body.

Thanks again.

Larry Coon
University of California

Per Elmsäter said:

My 5200 year 2001, has creaked in two different places. Stem and handlebar
joint. Just greased the bolts and retightened.
BB. Opened up the BB and greased it. It is of course a cartridge, but I
cleaned and greased everything that was in contact with anything else and
chucked it back in again. Had to get two special tools for this. One was a
couple of dollars and the other maybe 20-30.

That's the OTHER bad thing about getting a Shimano-equipped
bike after riding Campy all my life -- I don't have the right
tools any more.

Are the right tools to service an Ultegra BB a Park BBT-2 and
BBT-9?

Larry Coon
University of California

quote='Larry Coon'Per Elmsäter said:

My 5200 year 2001, has creaked in two different places. Stem and handlebar
joint. Just greased the bolts and retightened.
BB. Opened up the BB and greased it. It is of course a cartridge, but I
cleaned and greased everything that was in contact with anything else and
chucked it back in again. Had to get two special tools for this. One was a
couple of dollars and the other maybe 20-30.

That's the OTHER bad thing about getting a Shimano-equipped
bike after riding Campy all my life -- I don't have the right
tools any more.

Are the right tools to service an Ultegra BB a Park BBT-2 and
BBT-9?

Larry Coon
University of California[/QUOTE]
BBT-2 yes. BBT-9 No.
Another place to look for information on creaking is URL:

<http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/creaking_and_squeaking.shtml>

I like to put a single layer of teflon tape designed for plumbing work on the male Bottom Bracket threads in addition to applying a coating of grease on the female threads.
Other potions of ParK Tool Repair are also quite helpful.

Larry Coon said:

Per Elmsäter said:

My 5200 year 2001, has creaked in two different places. Stem and
handlebar joint. Just greased the bolts and retightened.
BB. Opened up the BB and greased it. It is of course a cartridge,
but I cleaned and greased everything that was in contact with
anything else and chucked it back in again. Had to get two special
tools for this. One was a couple of dollars and the other maybe
20-30.

That's the OTHER bad thing about getting a Shimano-equipped
bike after riding Campy all my life -- I don't have the right
tools any more.

Are the right tools to service an Ultegra BB a Park BBT-2 and
BBT-9?

Yes the BBT-2 is the one used on the right side. On the left side you have
to use this little plastic helper to grab the splines with. It is turned by
pure hand strength, just kind of gives you a better grip. I couldn't find it
at the moment so can't verify the model no, but I seem to recollect
something like that. If it doesn't cost more'n a couple of three dollars it
is the one 😉

--
Perre

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Per Elmsäter said:

Larry Coon said:

Per Elmsäter wrote:
Are the right tools to service an Ultegra BB a Park BBT-2 and
BBT-9?

Found it.
Parktools BBT-2 or Shimano TL-UN74-S
*NOT* the BBT-9
For the second tool needed, I couldn't find the corresponding Parktool but
Shimano makes one called
TL-FC16
Strangely enough I couldn't find it on the Shimano service instructions for
Ultegra BB but it certainly is needed.

Perre

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Larry Coon wrote:

(snipped)

Turns out it was the crank/spindle junction.
I removed, cleaned, lubed, reattached, and
rode without a single creak.

Thanks all.

Larry Coon
University of California

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Larry Coon said:

Larry Coon wrote:

(snipped)

Turns out it was the crank/spindle junction.
I removed, cleaned, lubed, reattached, and
rode without a single creak.

Thanks all.

Don't forget to retighten a couple of times after you've put a few miles on
it.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

Yes the BBT-2 is the one used on the right side. On the left side you have
to use this little plastic helper to grab the splines with. It is turned by
pure hand strength, just kind of gives you a better grip. I couldn't find it
at the moment so can't verify the model no, but I seem to recollect
something like that. If it doesn't cost more'n a couple of three dollars it
is the one 😉

Hmm, LBS didn't know about it. I got the version you use
a 1/2" driver with, so it looks like I don't need the
adapter.

Larry Coon
University of California

The NBA Salary Cap FAQ:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Per Elmsäter said:

Found it.
Parktools BBT-2 or Shimano TL-UN74-S
*NOT* the BBT-9
For the second tool needed, I couldn't find the corresponding Parktool but
Shimano makes one called
TL-FC16

Shimano calls that a "Crank Arm Installation Tool." No
wonder I didn't find it...

Larry Coon
University of California