General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

yogurt

Started by Aramanth Dawe · · Last activity · 82 posts · 3,412 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
26 May 2005
Last activity
2 June 2005
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Aramanth Dawe
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  1. On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:36:24 -0500, "Sherry" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I read the recent thread about yogurt but don't quite get the thing about
    something eating sugars? I love yogurt, don't know how to make it myself as
    some do...the low carb brands are rather pricey but I buy them anyway. Do I
    actually have other options? I am willing to learn to make it and can
    google that, also...

    Yoghurt is created when 'friendly' bacteria eat the sugars in the
    milk. In doing this, the sugars in the milk are dramatically reduced.

    I have an EasiYo yoghurt maker, which is essentially a large thermos
    jug into which a plastic screwtop jar filled with milk and culture
    (from the last batch I made) is placed overnight. Very easy and
    wonderfully tasty. My daughters have discovered that they LOVE
    home-made yoghurt with strawberries added as it's much less sweet than
    commercial ones.

    You can find basic, simple instructions at
    http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/bldairy7.htm which
    includes a link to how to make it using simple equipment found in most
    homes.

    Give it a go - you'll be glad you did. Once you've made your fresh
    yoghurt, try it over berries. Or anything else you please. I like
    yoghurt with vanilla extract, cinnamon and almond slivers for crunch.

    Aramanth

  2. I read the recent thread about yogurt but don't quite get the thing about
    something eating sugars? I love yogurt, don't know how to make it myself as
    some do...the low carb brands are rather pricey but I buy them anyway. Do I
    actually have other options? I am willing to learn to make it and can
    google that, also...

    --
    Sherry
    360/?/195
    LC since 4/4/05
    My LC Journey - www.livejournal.com/users/ShrinkingSherry

  3. Sherry said:

    I read the recent thread about yogurt but don't quite get the thing about
    something eating sugars? I love yogurt, don't know how to make it myself as
    some do...the low carb brands are rather pricey but I buy them anyway. Do I
    actually have other options? I am willing to learn to make it and can
    google that, also...

    Hi Sherry.

    Making it is very simple and you can make it either normal, i.e., using
    full fat milk, or low fat, using skim or fat reduced milk. Simply, add
    small amount of starter (i.e., a few spoonfuls of existing yogurt,
    either from a previous batch of your own, or a commercial product to
    start with) to a quantity of milk. The milk needs to be kept warm (not
    hot 98-108F) for several hours while the bacteria do their work.

    The longer it is allowed to process, anything up to 24 hours, the tarter
    the taste. If you like a European style yoghurt, then let it stand for
    at least 10-12 hours at a higher temp, 104-108. If you like a sweeter
    yoghurt, then keep the temperature to the lower end of the scale, 98-104
    and only let it stand until it thickens, 4-6 hours.

    An ideal place for incubating yoghurt is a hot water system storage
    area. If you have a reservoir style water heater, particularly if it is
    in a closet, that can often be ideal.

    Another very simple method of temperature control is the heater and
    thermostat sold by pet shops for reptile tanks. A small box, even one of
    those light Styrofoam drink coolers sold at service stations, with the
    reptile heater and thermostat will allow you to process at exactly the
    temperature you like.

    You can use reconstituted milk, either skim, if you are worried about
    saturated fats, or full cream, just as easily as fresh milk. If you use
    reconstituted milk, make it up with the required amount of water and let
    it stand for a day in the refrigerator.

    The milk, reconstituted or fresh, needs to be heated to about 170-180
    degrees and allowed to remain in that state for 15-20 minutes. This is
    NOT for pasteurising purposes, it affects the whey and makes the milk
    break down in a manner that gives a thicker, tastier yoghurt. You need a
    milk thermometer and a double boiler for this as the the temperature
    must not be allowed to rise above the 180 level, and definitely DO NOT
    BOIL. Microwaves are not very good for this as they tend to heat
    unevenly, some areas boil while others remain cool. Once the milk has
    been kept at 180 for the required length of time, you rapidly cool it to
    about 105, you do this simply by placing the container in a sink
    partially filled with cold water.

    If you do not wish to go to these lengths to treat the milk, it will
    still work, but give a thinner, more watery yoghurt. You can further
    thicken the yoghurt by adding a few grams of gelatin to the milk before
    heating it. I use about eight grams per litre. This give a very thick
    and creamy yoghurt even when made with skim milk. You can use a
    commercial, sugar free, diet jelly if you choose. Dust the surface of
    the milk with the gelatin before heating it, to allow a few minutes for
    the gelatin to soften, then mix it in with a whisk. This will flavour
    the yoghurt as well as thicken it. Otherwise, add a flavouring, vanilla
    extract or similar, along with Splenda, or what ever sweetener you fancy
    before adding the yoghurt starter. Add the starter last, and do it by
    removing a cupful of the warm milk and stirring the yoghurt through it,
    then return the cupful to the milk and whisk briefly.

    I eat at least a kilo a day of fresh yoghurt made with skim milk,
    sometimes more, and did for the whole time I was dropping weight. There
    have been reports, some quite recently, regarding the positive effects
    of yoghurt on weight-loss, so even if you are dieting yoghurt does not
    appear to be a bad thing. The yoghurt I make has 35 calories per hundred
    grams, this is about as low in calories and carbs as a food can get and
    still taste really good. 🙂

    Making it this way is very inexpensive, if that is a factor, plus you
    KNOW what is in it. You can use the commercial packets for yoghurt, like
    Easi-Yo, but they are nearly as dear as buying the commercial product
    ready made and they contain chemicals (stabilisers and preservatives)
    that are not really a good thing in a healthy diet, although they are a
    lot simpler to use. I probably spend, in actual preparation time, about
    ten minutes a day making yoghurt. Waiting for the milk to heat and cool
    of course, although not involving any work, does commit some of your time.

    I have a routine where I heat the milk while doing the dishes and
    tidying the kitchen after the evening meal, then fill the sink with cold
    water and place the yogurt bowl in the sink to finish cooling. I leave
    for a few minutes then remove it and add the flavour, sweetener, and the
    starter and put it in the temp controlled cupboard to process. When I
    get up in the morning I take it out of the cupboard and put it in the
    refrigerator.

    If you want to try it and have problems, let me know, I have been
    through it all before, tried many different variations and possibly
    would have an answer.

    BTW, you can make the yoghurt into a very healthy and very tasty cheese
    by hanging it in a cloth and letting the whey (liquid) drain out for a
    few hours. You salt the yoghurt rather than flavour it if you intend to
    use it for cheese. It make a sort of cottage cheese.

    Regards

    David

    --

    To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line.

    All other mail is automatically deleted.

  4. x-no-archive: yes

    Here's a post from a long ago visior, a scientist who actually studies
    fermentation processes, IIRC:

    http://tinyurl.com/823fs

    The gist, 24 hours of fermentation yields zero carb yogurt.

    Susan

  5. You can't make REAL yogurt with ultra pasteurized milk, though. U-P
    milk won't support any bacteria at all, it's dead. You need to find
    RAW milk at best, or at least pasteurized milk if you want to make good
    yogurt or any fermented dairy. I haven't tried it yet, but I've been
    told you can make yogurt out of coconut milk.

    Aramanth Dawe said:

    On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:36:24 -0500, "Sherry" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I read the recent thread about yogurt but don't quite get the thing about
    something eating sugars? I love yogurt, don't know how to make it myself as
    some do...the low carb brands are rather pricey but I buy them anyway. Do I
    actually have other options? I am willing to learn to make it and can
    google that, also...

    Yoghurt is created when 'friendly' bacteria eat the sugars in the
    milk. In doing this, the sugars in the milk are dramatically reduced.

    I have an EasiYo yoghurt maker, which is essentially a large thermos
    jug into which a plastic screwtop jar filled with milk and culture
    (from the last batch I made) is placed overnight. Very easy and
    wonderfully tasty. My daughters have discovered that they LOVE
    home-made yoghurt with strawberries added as it's much less sweet than
    commercial ones.

    You can find basic, simple instructions at
    http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/bldairy7.htm which
    includes a link to how to make it using simple equipment found in most
    homes.

    Give it a go - you'll be glad you did. Once you've made your fresh
    yoghurt, try it over berries. Or anything else you please. I like
    yoghurt with vanilla extract, cinnamon and almond slivers for crunch.

    Aramanth

  6. I make yogurt all the time. It's so much better than the commercial
    stuff. I add Equal, vanilla, or cinnamon to mine. I bought my yogurt
    maker from the williams sonoma catalog. I use Yogogourmet starter.
    Bought it off the Internet but have seen it in health food stores. Be
    sure to follow the directions as to temp on the pkg. The stuff is
    gritty so you must stir and stir to dissolve completely. The longer you
    let it process, the more milk sugars are broken down. I let mine
    process for 24 hrs. It is so easy to make. You'll never go back to the
    store stuff.

  7. x-no-archive: yes

    Quinadal said:

    You can't make REAL yogurt with ultra pasteurized milk, though. U-P
    milk won't support any bacteria at all, it's dead. You need to find
    RAW milk at best, or at least pasteurized milk if you want to make good
    yogurt or any fermented dairy. I haven't tried it yet, but I've been
    told you can make yogurt out of coconut milk.

    It has lactose in it, doesn't that support fermentation?

    Susan

  8. The problem isn't the fermentation. It's that the cultures die quickly
    if you use ultra-pasteurized milk and you lose all the benefits. U-P
    milk can't support life, because ALL the bacteria in it are dead. I'm
    looking for raw milk to make some yogurt with.

    Susan said:

    x-no-archive: yes

    Quinadal said:

    You can't make REAL yogurt with ultra pasteurized milk, though. U-P
    milk won't support any bacteria at all, it's dead. You need to find
    RAW milk at best, or at least pasteurized milk if you want to make good
    yogurt or any fermented dairy. I haven't tried it yet, but I've been
    told you can make yogurt out of coconut milk.

    It has lactose in it, doesn't that support fermentation?

    Susan

  9. "Aramanth Dawe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yoghurt is created when 'friendly' bacteria eat the sugars in the
    milk. In doing this, the sugars in the milk are dramatically reduced.

    I have an EasiYo yoghurt maker, which is essentially a large thermos
    jug into which a plastic screwtop jar filled with milk and culture
    (from the last batch I made) is placed overnight. Very easy and
    wonderfully tasty. My daughters have discovered that they LOVE
    home-made yoghurt with strawberries added as it's much less sweet than
    commercial ones.

    You can find basic, simple instructions at
    http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/bldairy7.htm which
    includes a link to how to make it using simple equipment found in most
    homes.

    Give it a go - you'll be glad you did. Once you've made your fresh
    yoghurt, try it over berries. Or anything else you please. I like
    yoghurt with vanilla extract, cinnamon and almond slivers for crunch.

    Thank you for that link, I think I'll give it a go in the next few days! 🙂

    One of the things I don't like about commercial flavored yogurts is that
    they taste more like fruit puddings, so I've been buying mainly the lemon
    flavor (pre-LC) to try and avoid the overly sweet taste. It sounds like
    this will work better for me - thanks again! 🙂

    --
    Sherry
    360/?/195
    LC since 4/4/05
    My LC Journey - www.livejournal.com/users/ShrinkingSherry

  10. "J. David Anderson" <jdavidanderson_@hotmail> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Making it is very simple and you can make it either normal, i.e., using
    full fat milk, or low fat, using skim or fat reduced milk. Simply, add
    small amount of starter (i.e., a few spoonfuls of existing yogurt,
    either from a previous batch of your own, or a commercial product to
    start with) to a quantity of milk. The milk needs to be kept warm (not
    hot 98-108F) for several hours while the bacteria do their work.

    The longer it is allowed to process, anything up to 24 hours, the tarter
    the taste. If you like a European style yoghurt, then let it stand for
    at least 10-12 hours at a higher temp, 104-108. If you like a sweeter
    yoghurt, then keep the temperature to the lower end of the scale, 98-104
    and only let it stand until it thickens, 4-6 hours.

    An ideal place for incubating yoghurt is a hot water system storage
    area. If you have a reservoir style water heater, particularly if it is
    in a closet, that can often be ideal.

    Another very simple method of temperature control is the heater and
    thermostat sold by pet shops for reptile tanks. A small box, even one of
    those light Styrofoam drink coolers sold at service stations, with the
    reptile heater and thermostat will allow you to process at exactly the
    temperature you like.

    You can use reconstituted milk, either skim, if you are worried about
    saturated fats, or full cream, just as easily as fresh milk. If you use
    reconstituted milk, make it up with the required amount of water and let
    it stand for a day in the refrigerator.

    The milk, reconstituted or fresh, needs to be heated to about 170-180
    degrees and allowed to remain in that state for 15-20 minutes. This is
    NOT for pasteurising purposes, it affects the whey and makes the milk
    break down in a manner that gives a thicker, tastier yoghurt. You need a
    milk thermometer and a double boiler for this as the the temperature
    must not be allowed to rise above the 180 level, and definitely DO NOT
    BOIL. Microwaves are not very good for this as they tend to heat
    unevenly, some areas boil while others remain cool. Once the milk has
    been kept at 180 for the required length of time, you rapidly cool it to
    about 105, you do this simply by placing the container in a sink
    partially filled with cold water.

    If you do not wish to go to these lengths to treat the milk, it will
    still work, but give a thinner, more watery yoghurt. You can further
    thicken the yoghurt by adding a few grams of gelatin to the milk before
    heating it. I use about eight grams per litre. This give a very thick
    and creamy yoghurt even when made with skim milk. You can use a
    commercial, sugar free, diet jelly if you choose. Dust the surface of
    the milk with the gelatin before heating it, to allow a few minutes for
    the gelatin to soften, then mix it in with a whisk. This will flavour
    the yoghurt as well as thicken it. Otherwise, add a flavouring, vanilla
    extract or similar, along with Splenda, or what ever sweetener you fancy
    before adding the yoghurt starter. Add the starter last, and do it by
    removing a cupful of the warm milk and stirring the yoghurt through it,
    then return the cupful to the milk and whisk briefly.

    I eat at least a kilo a day of fresh yoghurt made with skim milk,
    sometimes more, and did for the whole time I was dropping weight. There
    have been reports, some quite recently, regarding the positive effects
    of yoghurt on weight-loss, so even if you are dieting yoghurt does not
    appear to be a bad thing. The yoghurt I make has 35 calories per hundred
    grams, this is about as low in calories and carbs as a food can get and
    still taste really good. 🙂

    Making it this way is very inexpensive, if that is a factor, plus you
    KNOW what is in it. You can use the commercial packets for yoghurt, like
    Easi-Yo, but they are nearly as dear as buying the commercial product
    ready made and they contain chemicals (stabilisers and preservatives)
    that are not really a good thing in a healthy diet, although they are a
    lot simpler to use. I probably spend, in actual preparation time, about
    ten minutes a day making yoghurt. Waiting for the milk to heat and cool
    of course, although not involving any work, does commit some of your time.

    I have a routine where I heat the milk while doing the dishes and
    tidying the kitchen after the evening meal, then fill the sink with cold
    water and place the yogurt bowl in the sink to finish cooling. I leave
    for a few minutes then remove it and add the flavour, sweetener, and the
    starter and put it in the temp controlled cupboard to process. When I
    get up in the morning I take it out of the cupboard and put it in the
    refrigerator.

    If you want to try it and have problems, let me know, I have been
    through it all before, tried many different variations and possibly
    would have an answer.

    BTW, you can make the yoghurt into a very healthy and very tasty cheese
    by hanging it in a cloth and letting the whey (liquid) drain out for a
    few hours. You salt the yoghurt rather than flavour it if you intend to
    use it for cheese. It make a sort of cottage cheese.

    WOW! Great information here, David, and the cheese tip to boot 🙂. I
    appreciate you taking the time to type all this and share your experience!

    I've really GOT to do this!

    --
    Sherry
    360/?/195
    LC since 4/4/05
    My LC Journey - www.livejournal.com/users/ShrinkingSherry

  11. "Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Here's a post from a long ago visior, a scientist who actually studies
    fermentation processes, IIRC:

    http://tinyurl.com/823fs

    The gist, 24 hours of fermentation yields zero carb yogurt.

    Good article, thank you Susan! 🙂

    --
    Sherry
    360/?/195
    LC since 4/4/05
    My LC Journey - www.livejournal.com/users/ShrinkingSherry

  12. x-no-archive: yes

    Quinadal said:

    The problem isn't the fermentation. It's that the cultures die quickly
    if you use ultra-pasteurized milk and you lose all the benefits. U-P
    milk can't support life, because ALL the bacteria in it are dead. I'm
    looking for raw milk to make some yogurt with.

    That isn't the information contained on any of the yogurt maker web
    sites. They just say that there's no need to heat the UP as hot as the
    P. They say that the only bacteria you want alive in the milk is from
    the yogurt starter, so that it doesn't have to compete with other
    bacteria for the available lactose.

    If you use raw milk, you must heat it high enough to kill its undead
    organisms before you add the yogurt starter, from what I've read.

    Susan

  13. Susan said:


    x-no-archive: yes

    Quinadal said:

    You can't make REAL yogurt with ultra pasteurized milk, though. U-P
    milk won't support any bacteria at all, it's dead. You need to find
    RAW milk at best, or at least pasteurized milk if you want to make good
    yogurt or any fermented dairy. I haven't tried it yet, but I've been
    told you can make yogurt out of coconut milk.

    It has lactose in it, doesn't that support fermentation?

    Yup. You don't need raw milk, any old milk will do, as long as it's got
    lactose (milk sugar) in it. That's what the culture eats.

    Priscilla

  14. Sherry said:


    "Aramanth Dawe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yoghurt is created when 'friendly' bacteria eat the sugars in the
    milk. In doing this, the sugars in the milk are dramatically reduced.

    I have an EasiYo yoghurt maker, which is essentially a large thermos
    jug into which a plastic screwtop jar filled with milk and culture
    (from the last batch I made) is placed overnight. Very easy and
    wonderfully tasty. My daughters have discovered that they LOVE
    home-made yoghurt with strawberries added as it's much less sweet than
    commercial ones.

    You can find basic, simple instructions at
    http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/bldairy7.htm which
    includes a link to how to make it using simple equipment found in most
    homes.

    Give it a go - you'll be glad you did. Once you've made your fresh
    yoghurt, try it over berries. Or anything else you please. I like
    yoghurt with vanilla extract, cinnamon and almond slivers for crunch.

    Thank you for that link, I think I'll give it a go in the next few days! 🙂

    One of the things I don't like about commercial flavored yogurts is that
    they taste more like fruit puddings, so I've been buying mainly the lemon
    flavor (pre-LC) to try and avoid the overly sweet taste. It sounds like
    this will work better for me - thanks again! 🙂

    I think you'll find yourself feeling very liberated once you start
    making your own. I make yoghurt on a fairly regular basis, and it's
    really yummy stuff because I don't stint the milk fat. Truly yummy
    stuff!

    Priscilla

  15. Sherry said:


    "J. David Anderson" <jdavidanderson_@hotmail> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Making it is very simple and you can make it either normal, i.e., using
    full fat milk, or low fat, using skim or fat reduced milk.

    Or you can add cream to milk to make richer yoghurt.

    Priscilla

  16. Dear David,
    I read vwith interest your methods of making yogurt, Can I make it with
    half and half? Or heavy cream mixed with an equal measure of water?
    How about if I mixed up a batch in a bowl this way, and put it in a
    cupboard sitting on a heating pad set on low? How much yogurt do I need
    to add to a pint for example?
    Thanks alot!
    Joan

  17. Priscilla H. Ballou said:
    Sherry said:

    "J. David Anderson" <jdavidanderson_@hotmail> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Making it is very simple and you can make it either normal, i.e., using
    full fat milk, or low fat, using skim or fat reduced milk.

    Or you can add cream to milk to make richer yoghurt.

    Priscilla

    You don't need to do that for richer yoghurt Priscilla, you can either
    make up a powdered milk and use twice the recommended quantity of milk
    powder, or add enough milk powder to fresh milk to make an equivalent
    quantity. Once the bacteria has done its job it still tastes much the
    same, fresh or powdered. I do not like the taste of reconstituted milk,
    but once made into yoghurt it is hard to tell the difference.

    You have to watch the calories though, particularly if you make your
    yoghurt very rich and eat a lot of it. Yoghurt made with skim milk can
    give 35 calories per 100g, while if you use full cream milk and add
    cream, it can go to 400+ calories per 100g. If someone is dieting, even
    low carb, they still need to watch total calories. A very rich yoghurt,
    equivalent in size to one of the little tubs of Yoplait etc., (200g)
    will have more than eight hundred calories if made with full cream mild
    and added cream. Much better to use skim milk and add the gelatine for
    richness, at least if weight loss or maintenance is a concern. It still
    makes for a very pleasant tasting and healthy treat that doesn't damage
    most diets.

    Regards

    David

    --

    To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line.

    All other mail is automatically deleted.

  18. Sherry said:


    "Priscilla H. Ballou" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Or you can add cream to milk to make richer yoghurt.

    I was looking at the site that Amaranth suggested, and it has quite a few
    different ways to make it if one doesn't have a yogurt machine. I have a
    professional dehydrator that I use for my business, it has very accurate
    temperature control on it...since the milk gets covered anyway (it won't
    dehydrate) while it becomes yogurt I'm thinking I could just use that. At
    least I'd be assured of the right temperatures.

    I really can't wait to do this, all I need is some yogurt to start! 🙂

    Or some plain culture. I buy my culture from a dairy supplier. A
    couple of Tablespoons (if that) is enough to make 50 gallons of yoghurt,
    so I use a pinch.

    Priscilla

  19. Joan Hayes said:

    Dear David,
    I read vwith interest your methods of making yogurt, Can I make it with
    half and half? Or heavy cream mixed with an equal measure of water?
    How about if I mixed up a batch in a bowl this way, and put it in a
    cupboard sitting on a heating pad set on low? How much yogurt do I need
    to add to a pint for example?
    Thanks alot!
    Joan

    I am not sure what half and half is. I assume a reduced fat milk. As
    long as the bacteria have some lactose to feed on it will work.

    In the yoghurt process, (the fermentation) the bacteria changes lactose
    (milk sugar) into lactic acid. The lactic acid causes the milk to
    thicken, creating yoghurt. It won't work with soy milk or coconut milk
    etc., they, although often labeled yoghurt, are an entirely different thing.

    The starter can be as little as a couple of tablespoons. Just make sure
    that the commercial yoghurt you use as a starter has "contains live
    culture" somewhere on the nutrition panel or label.

    Put a thermometer in the cupboard and check that the temperature remains
    between 98 and 120F. Above or below these temperatures the culture
    doesn't function.

    It really is easy to make, the skill comes in getting the temperatures
    and length of fermentation right for the flavour that you like. The
    higher temperatures and the longer times give the [censored] (sour) tasting
    yoghurt, while lower and shorter give sweet tasting yoghurt, but not as
    thick. For the sweeter yoghurt you really do need some gelatin.

    The temperature and duration change the percentage of bifidus and
    acidophilus bacteria in the yoghurt, with acidophilus being the more
    sour tasting.

    Regards

    David
    --

    To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line.

    All other mail is automatically deleted.

  20. J. David Anderson said:


    Priscilla H. Ballou said:
    Sherry said:

    "J. David Anderson" <jdavidanderson_@hotmail> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >Making it is very simple and you can make it either normal, i.e., using
    >full fat milk, or low fat, using skim or fat reduced milk.

    Or you can add cream to milk to make richer yoghurt.

    Priscilla

    You don't need to do that for richer yoghurt Priscilla, you can either
    make up a powdered milk and use twice the recommended quantity of milk
    powder, or add enough milk powder to fresh milk to make an equivalent
    quantity. Once the bacteria has done its job it still tastes much the
    same, fresh or powdered. I do not like the taste of reconstituted milk,
    but once made into yoghurt it is hard to tell the difference.

    I don't want more milk sugar, I want more fat, and the mouth-feel of
    fat. I'll stick with my milk/cream mixture, thanks.

    Priscilla

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