Yet another broken spoke

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

A front is good to learn on. Sheldon Brown's site has good
instruction. The lacing seems hard till you do it three times, then
you can do it in yer sleep.

I like to stress relieve, AKA bed the spokes into the flange, after
I've tensioned the wheel up, by putting the axle on a block of wood
and working my way around the rim, giving it a pretty hefty push. Then
retrue. Should last you a lifetime.

Take your time building up tension, and do lace it up with an electric
driver from the back side so you don't get carpal tunnel issues.

Just A User said:

built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

J.A.U.

Handbuilding your own wheels is always a good idea, and if you do them
yourself and something goes wrong, it may give you some insight as to
what is happening, such as, oh, that spoke was twisted too much when
building the wheel up, or it had a very awkward tension compared to
the other spokes. I am heavier than most avid cyclist, but have never
broken a spoke. I ride 32 3x and don't even have a spoke preference,
but usually use dt swiss double butted.

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

J.A.U.

Quality spokes and a quality build will help lengthen the life of the spokes.
The time it takes for an experienced builder may be a good investment.
It depends on you inclination, mechanical aptitude, budget, and how you would like to spend your time.
Barnetts (the bicycle mechanic school) has dedicated a chapter to the subject, and Jobst Brandt has a whole book "The Bicycle Wheel".
I like to build wheels, but many people think it is a waste of time and effort when you can just buy the finished product. You can often buy a completely built wheel for less than you can buy the same parts that make up the wheel.

Just A User wrote:
:: All opinions welcome.

http://www.spinlitecycling.com/index.htm

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:09:07 -0000, landotter <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

A front is good to learn on. Sheldon Brown's site has good
instruction. The lacing seems hard till you do it three times, then
you can do it in yer sleep.

I like to stress relieve, AKA bed the spokes into the flange, after
I've tensioned the wheel up, by putting the axle on a block of wood
and working my way around the rim, giving it a pretty hefty push. Then
retrue. Should last you a lifetime.

Take your time building up tension, and do lace it up with an electric
driver from the back side so you don't get carpal tunnel issues.

And be SURE the spokes are tensioned adequately. Loose spokes break.
Tight spokes don't (as a general rule of thumb)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight.

It does, which increases the evidence that your front wheel is suffering
from a poor build. All other factors seem to be equal or in its favour
(assuming same components front and rear).

Quoted message said:

So I have a few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs
for the last spoke replacement.

In a recent post, perhaps in this thread, Peter (Qui si parla) suggested
a flat spot on the rim giving the spokes around the flat spot a hard
time.

Is it the new spokes you're putting in that keep breaking again or
different ones?

If it's different ones each time, a theoretical possibility is retained
stress at the elbow from a poor original build. This would lead them to
premature fatigue failure, which is they're all now starting to fail at
around the same time.

Or it could be the wrong sort of spokes (shanks too long, or just too
cheap and nasty).

Quoted message said:

But now I am thinking that a new / better machine built wheel, or
cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way to go. When I
say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no experience building
wheels. All opinions welcome.

Why not, give it a go. The Sheldon Brown page is all you need
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), but Jobst's book (The
Bicycle Wheel) is also highly regarded.

Or, if the rim seems OK (i.e. not got a big flat spot or other
deformity), get a whole new set of spokes and rebuild with those but the
same hub and rim.

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

J.A.U.

Can you reuse the front hub? If ya can, get some spokes and a rim and
a coupla books and build the wheel..not rocket surgery. Or take or
send the hub to somebody and have them build ya a wheel...we do this
sort of thing all the time.

Roger Zoul said:

Just A User wrote:

:: All opinions welcome.

http://www.spinlitecycling.com/index.htm

They state-The Chris King is the best hub on the market and their 5
year warranty backs this claim.

Righto sparky...not even close...if shimano, the best is shimano, if
Campag, the best is Campagnolo..close second is DT..

clare at snyder.on.ca said:

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:09:07 -0000, landotter <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

Quoted message said:

A front is good to learn on. Sheldon Brown's site has good
instruction. The lacing seems hard till you do it three times, then
you can do it in yer sleep.

Quoted message said:

I like to stress relieve, AKA bed the spokes into the flange, after
I've tensioned the wheel up, by putting the axle on a block of wood
and working my way around the rim, giving it a pretty hefty push. Then
retrue. Should last you a lifetime.

Quoted message said:

Take your time building up tension, and do lace it up with an electric
driver from the back side so you don't get carpal tunnel issues.

And be SURE the spokes are tensioned adequately. Loose spokes break.
Tight spokes don't (as a general rule of thumb)

Ja--an alternative is simply to bring the current wheel up to tension.
Same goes for factory wheels--I dialed in my current set 3K ago and
have been over hill and dale with them and still they're bang on.
However, the current wheels' spokes have been stressed if they are
currently loose, undergoing the mysterious "coat hanger" effect, so
still a liability. If on a budget, it's worth a shot, though.

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

J.A.U.

I would just bring the wheel up to (even) tension & stress relieve it
well. If it still breaks spokes, you could respoke.

I prefer to buy machine made wheels, simply because they're cheaper than
the parts and save some time lacing. I just tension & stress relieve.
I've done that on many sets of wheels with no breakage problems.

landotter said:

clare at snyder.on.ca said:

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:09:07 -0000, landotter <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Sep 2, 11:24 am, Just A User <[email hidden]> wrote:
> It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
> second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
> have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
> lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
> wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
> wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
> few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
> spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
> built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
> to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
> experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.
A front is good to learn on. Sheldon Brown's site has good
instruction. The lacing seems hard till you do it three times, then
you can do it in yer sleep.
I like to stress relieve, AKA bed the spokes into the flange, after
I've tensioned the wheel up, by putting the axle on a block of wood
and working my way around the rim, giving it a pretty hefty push. Then
retrue. Should last you a lifetime.
Take your time building up tension, and do lace it up with an electric
driver from the back side so you don't get carpal tunnel issues.

And be SURE the spokes are tensioned adequately. Loose spokes break.
Tight spokes don't (as a general rule of thumb)

Ja--an alternative is simply to bring the current wheel up to tension.
Same goes for factory wheels--I dialed in my current set 3K ago and
have been over hill and dale with them and still they're bang on.
However, the current wheels' spokes have been stressed if they are
currently loose, undergoing the mysterious "coat hanger" effect, so
still a liability. If on a budget, it's worth a shot, though.

Well I think I am going to invest in a truing stand and then I will true
it out and see how it works out for me. In the mean time I just popped
another spoke in there and trued it out by eye. It's not perfect but
it's good enough to ride on for a bit.

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

J.A.U.

Can you reuse the front hub? If ya can, get some spokes and a rim and
a coupla books and build the wheel..not rocket surgery. Or take or
send the hub to somebody and have them build ya a wheel...we do this
sort of thing all the time.

Yeah the front hub looks okay, it's a cheap hub anyway. The wheel
doesn't even look that bad. I just put another spoke in it and trued it
by eye, should be good enough until I can order a truing stand and give
it a proper job.

daveornee said:

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes
the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not
the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

J.A.U.

Quality spokes and a quality build will help lengthen the life of the
spokes.
The time it takes for an experienced builder may be a good investment.
It depends on you inclination, mechanical aptitude, budget, and how you
would like to spend your time.
Barnetts (the bicycle mechanic school) has dedicated a chapter to the
subject, and Jobst Brandt has a whole book "The Bicycle Wheel".
I like to build wheels, but many people think it is a waste of time and
effort when you can just buy the finished product. You can often buy a
completely built wheel for less than you can buy the same parts that
make up the wheel.

Well I think I am going to invest in a truing stand, it seems like I am
always having issues with spokes and wheels. So it would probably be a
good investment for me. I have read that handbuilt wheels are generally
more reliable than machine built wheels.

Ben C said:

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight.

It does, which increases the evidence that your front wheel is suffering
from a poor build. All other factors seem to be equal or in its favour
(assuming same components front and rear).

Quoted message said:

So I have a few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs
for the last spoke replacement.

In a recent post, perhaps in this thread, Peter (Qui si parla) suggested
a flat spot on the rim giving the spokes around the flat spot a hard
time.

Is it the new spokes you're putting in that keep breaking again or
different ones?

If it's different ones each time, a theoretical possibility is retained
stress at the elbow from a poor original build. This would lead them to
premature fatigue failure, which is they're all now starting to fail at
around the same time.

Or it could be the wrong sort of spokes (shanks too long, or just too
cheap and nasty).

Quoted message said:

But now I am thinking that a new / better machine built wheel, or
cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way to go. When I
say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no experience building
wheels. All opinions welcome.

Why not, give it a go. The Sheldon Brown page is all you need
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), but Jobst's book (The
Bicycle Wheel) is also highly regarded.

Or, if the rim seems OK (i.e. not got a big flat spot or other
deformity), get a whole new set of spokes and rebuild with those but the
same hub and rim.

I just took the wheel apart and looked at it, the wheel looks okay but a
flat spot might be kind of hard to see. So I just popped another spoke
in it and trued it by eye. Should be good enough for now until I can
order a truing stand and give it a proper work over.

Just A User said:

landotter said:

clare at snyder.on.ca said:

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:09:07 -0000, landotter <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Sep 2, 11:24 am, Just A User <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
>> second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
>> have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
>> lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
>> wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
>> wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
>> few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
>> spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
>> built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
>> to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
>> experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.
> A front is good to learn on. Sheldon Brown's site has good
> instruction. The lacing seems hard till you do it three times, then
> you can do it in yer sleep.
> I like to stress relieve, AKA bed the spokes into the flange, after
> I've tensioned the wheel up, by putting the axle on a block of wood
> and working my way around the rim, giving it a pretty hefty push. Then
> retrue. Should last you a lifetime.
> Take your time building up tension, and do lace it up with an electric
> driver from the back side so you don't get carpal tunnel issues.
And be SURE the spokes are tensioned adequately. Loose spokes break.
Tight spokes don't (as a general rule of thumb)

Quoted message said:

Ja--an alternative is simply to bring the current wheel up to tension.
Same goes for factory wheels--I dialed in my current set 3K ago and
have been over hill and dale with them and still they're bang on.
However, the current wheels' spokes have been stressed if they are
currently loose, undergoing the mysterious "coat hanger" effect, so
still a liability. If on a budget, it's worth a shot, though.

Well I think I am going to invest in a truing stand and then I will true
it out and see how it works out for me. In the mean time I just popped
another spoke in there and trued it out by eye. It's not perfect but
it's good enough to ride on for a bit.

Truing stand? You don't need no steenkin' stand for a touch up--rubber
band a pencil to the stays, or use the brake pads. Now, I gotta run
and JB Weld something...

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

J.A.U.

Just another opinion, but I cured all my spoke breakage problems by
getting a hand-built set of wheels four years ago. I've never broken a
spoke and haven't even had to re-true them once. They cost around $225
if memory serves me correctly. They were built on Ultegra hubs with
Mavic CXP-33 rims and a 36 spoke 3X pattern. I ride on rough
washboarded gravel roads and a lot of rough chip seal road. There are
lots of good builders around, including our own Pete Chisholm, Peter
White, and several others. A good set of hand-built wheels will give
you many years of service.

Smokey

Peter Cole said:

Just A User said:

It happened again! I broke ANOTHER spoke on my road bike. This makes the
second break in a month maybe a month and a half. Now I know I don't
have the lightest riding style compared to some riders. And I am not the
lightest of all riders. But then again I am riding on 32 triple cross
wheels. What I don't understand is why am I breaking them on the front
wheel only? I thought the back wheel carried more weight. So I have a
few extra spokes I bought when I had the wheel at the lbs for the last
spoke replacement. But now I am thinking that a new / better machine
built wheel, or cough, a handbuilt wheels might be a more reliable way
to go. When I say handbuilt, I mean with my hands, that have no
experience building wheels. All opinions welcome.

Quoted message said:

J.A.U.

I would just bring the wheel up to (even) tension & stress relieve it
well. If it still breaks spokes, you could respoke.

I prefer to buy machine made wheels, simply because they're cheaper than
the parts and save some time lacing. I just tension & stress relieve.
I've done that on many sets of wheels with no breakage problems.

I've done that many times as well, before I took time to learn to
lace. I'd still do it for something common and good like Ultegra/OP/
DB, which is available for under $250 a pair online. Ten minutes with
a spoke wrench, and those wheels are good for years.

Clare who? said:

And be SURE the spokes are tensioned adequately. Loose spokes break.
Tight spokes don't (as a general rule of thumb)

I keep seeing this admonition yet no one seems to be able to describe
the mechanism that causes such spoke failures. Loosely spoked wheels
can allow the nipples to unscrew and cause wheel misalignment, but
spoke failure is caused by metal fatigue that arises from tension
change, caused once with every wheel rotation as spokes pass through
the zone of tire contact with the road. This must occur with stress
near the yield stress, something that does not readily occur in loose
spokes.

Please explain.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Clare who? said:

And be SURE the spokes are tensioned adequately. Loose spokes break.
Tight spokes don't (as a general rule of thumb)

I keep seeing this admonition yet no one seems to be able to describe
the mechanism that causes such spoke failures. Loosely spoked wheels
can allow the nipples to unscrew and cause wheel misalignment, but
spoke failure is caused by metal fatigue that arises from tension
change, caused once with every wheel rotation as spokes pass through
the zone of tire contact with the road. This must occur with stress
near the yield stress, something that does not readily occur in loose
spokes.

Please explain.

Jobst Brandt

A properly tensioned spoke is "pre stretched" and does not flex or
stretch in operation. A loose spoke bends at leat twice every
revolution, and stretches repeatedly. This is what fatigues a spoke
and breaks it.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com