why not run continuous cable housing?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by the blur
on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop of derailleur cable before the deraiileur.
i'm thinking of just running uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear derailleur on my new bike to avoid water/grit.
why do we put all these stops etc on a frame?

It will work, depending on the housing and quality of installation.
Housing compresses more than the frame. You will still have responsiveness issues with continuous housing runs. You will need to find reliable fastening methods to keep the housing where it belongs. The additional housing weight will cause more "clinking" sounds as the housing contacts the frame. You need very sturdy housing to keep it from being compressed at the frame fastening points.
Slotted stops are made so that you can easily pull out the cable housings and cables allowing you to clean them a apply lubrication as appropriate. Have you read the "cables" section of Sheldon Brown's web site?
http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
Good quality housing that is properly prepared and sized makes a big difference. Water and dirt intrusion are still a problem, but they aren't felt as much or as quickly when they are done right.
I really like to do the end trim with a Dremel type tool and a cut-off wheel.

the blur said:

on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when
water and dirt would get in the ends of the brake and
derailleur cables, causing poor responsiveness in braking
and shifting, especially that last loop of derailleur
cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear
derailleur on my new bike to avoid water/grit. why do we
put all these stops etc on a frame?

It saves a few grams of weight. Back in the day of unlined
housing, it probably also slightly reduced cable friction,
but this is not the case with modern cables/housings.

Another advantage, with the older, unlined housing: If the
housing stops were the good split type, you could pop the
housing out and get plenty of slack to allow you to re-
lubricate the cable without deranging the adjustments or
messing with the anchor bolts. Since modern cable setups
don't require wet lube, this is now an academic issue.

Sheldon "Covering Up" Brown +----------------------------------------------------------
-+
| If you only know Mussorgski's Pictures at an Exhibition |
| from the Ravel or Stokowski "colorized" versions, (with |
| orchestra) seek out the original piano solo version. | I
| think it is much superior! |
+-----------------------------------------------------------
+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

I have always done this on the rear derailleur cable on my
cyclocross bike. The bike is in wet and muddy conditions
more than I prefer, and this keeps it shifting good!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Sheldon Brown

Bthe blur said:

on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when
water and dirt would get in the ends of the brake and
derailleur cables, causing poor responsiveness in braking
and shifting, especially that last loop of derailleur
cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear
derailleur on my new bike to avoid water/grit. why do we
put all these stops etc on a frame?

It saves a few grams of weight. Back in the day of unlined
housing, it probably also slightly reduced cable friction,
but this is not the case with modern cables/housings.

Another advantage, with the older, unlined housing: If the
housing stops were the good split type, you could pop the
housing out and get plenty of slack to allow you to re-
lubricate the cable without deranging the adjustments or
messing with the anchor bolts. Since modern cable setups
don't require wet lube, this is now an academic issue.

Sheldon "Covering Up" Brown +----------------------------------------------------------
-+
| If you only know Mussorgski's Pictures at an Exhibition |
| from the Ravel or Stokowski "colorized" versions, (with |
| orchestra) seek out the original piano solo version. | I
| think it is much superior! |
+-----------------------------------------------------------
+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗ [/B]

so there's no good reason to keep doing it that way!?!
i certainly don't care about the few grams of extra housing on my bike, and with teflon linings and no cable stops, there will be no reason to have to lube the cable. now the cable stops are in the way of my continuous housing! maybe i'll file them off. (not really)

RE/

Quoted message said:

I really like to do the end trim with a Dremel type tool
and a cut-off wheel.

Anybody know how to get those nice little bugle shapes on
the poly lining - that prevent the lining from working it's
way out through the cable stops?

Looks like some sort of heated tool is used to melt the
stuff into that shape; but when I try it it either isn't hot
enough or it fries the tubing.
--
PeteCresswell

Quoted message said:

...i'm thinking of just running uninterupted cable housings...

There are "kits" that allow you to enclose the inner cables between stops with polyacetyl or polyimide tubing. They address muck problems head on.

Jagwire makes one (in the '04 QBP catalog) that allows you to enclose just about anyones 4-5mm cables. The extended "tips" on the special ferrules are a little short to make it through some cable stops. These Jagwire kits come with black between the stops shield tubing.

Avid Flackjacket cable sets include special ferrules with longer tips and red between stop stop shield tubing. They don't include enough of the special ferrules for some bikes, but will sell you more if you call their customer service department. I like the Avid kits, and have stripped black Teflon insullation from 10 AWG wire and used that where I didn't particularly care for the appearance of their standard red shield tubing.

With any of these special tipped ferrules, it might also be necessary to open up the bottom of the slot on some cable stops with a small round file. I've encountered some that had a proper round hole at the base of the slot, and others that just had a straight slot (and mixtures of both on the same bike).

One can sometimes hear the cables rattling around inside the shield tubes, but I decided it wasn't really as big deal as some of the other things that were making as much or more noise under the same conditions.

John

Quoted message said:

...dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur
cables ... especially that last loop of derailleur cable
before the deraiileur.

There is a gadget called (I think) the "inchworm" that
claims to fix that issue. Sort of a rubber
bellows/gaiter that seals the place the inner enters the
last loop of outer.

I have seen this thing advertised by various bike retailers
on the Web from time to time.

--
Peter Headland

"the blur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when
water and dirt would get in the ends of the brake and
derailleur cables, causing poor responsiveness in braking
and shifting, especially that last loop of derailleur
cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear
derailleur on my new bike to avoid water/grit. why do we
put all these stops etc on a frame?

--

I'm running full length housings on this bike:

cheg01.home.comcast.netr20.htmlOpen ↗

It does not have any frame stops. 600 miles so far and no
shifting problems with a Sachs 3X7 hub

In "]news:[email hidden],
the blur <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when
water and dirt would get in the ends of the brake and
derailleur cables, causing poor responsiveness in braking
and shifting, especially that last loop of derailleur
cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear
derailleur on my new bike to avoid water/grit. why do we
put all these stops etc on a frame?

I run it that way on both my DH bikes. No problems.

Mike

Quoted message said:

From: Sheldon Brown [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

| If you only know Mussorgski's Pictures at an Exhibition
| | from the Ravel or Stokowski "colorized" versions,
| (with | orchestra) seek out the original piano solo
| version. | I think it is much superior!

Oh, yes, it's delightful! The orchestra is never as flexible
as the soloist. I love the nuances of the piano versions I
have heard. The orchestra tends to plod and shout.

Also, look for various artist's interpretations of The Gates
of Kiev, and the other pictures referred to. I believe all
were painted after Mussorgsky did his writing, inspired by
his music.

I prefer steel on steel, well lubricated with light oil, to
the modern plastic linings. I think SIS is designed to shift
with SIS cable of specific length at shifter and derailer.
But that's an indexing system, and so it is best not to
tinker with it.

When I worked at the Washington post nights slipping the ad
packets into the paper, we'd lose conveyor belting nightly.
Sproing! It would fatigue and break. They threw a lot out
and I'd use it as cable sheathing. It was unlined inside and
out but then I never rode in the wet then.

I have a boot on my V-brakes on the cable run from the
noodle to the clamp. A similar boot would allow the weight
savings of an unsheathed cable run with the cleanliness of
the fully sheathed run.

To braze a cable end for later ease of maintenance, use a
vertical butane flame, not a lighter, but a small butane
torch. Heat the cable end and form a ball of borax flux on
the end. Heat that red holding it from above but not
directly vertical, while preheating the 1/16 inch or thinner
bronze rod, and apply the rod to the red hot cable. Just a
touch is all you need. The bronze should run down to the
cable end.

You'll find you can clip and file the end, and have a really
nicely trimmed cable, but this is only if you really like
removing the cable, cleaning it, inspecting it, oiling it,
and replacing it. With liners and clamp on cable tips, you
never have to pull the cable through the sheathing.

Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )

My physics project at NVCC:
groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗ plus
"bicycle", "fluorescent", "inverter", "flywheel",
"ultracapacitor", etc. in the search box

Peter Headland said:

Quoted message said:

...dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur
cables ... especially that last loop of derailleur cable
before the deraiileur.

There is a gadget called (I think) the "inchworm" that
claims to fix that issue. Sort of a rubber
bellows/gaiter that seals the place the inner enters the
last loop of outer.

I have seen this thing advertised by various bike
retailers on the Web from time to time.

You may be thinking of the SRAM Nightcrawler. You can see a
picture at sheldonbrown.comdrive.htmlOpen ↗
near the end of the page.

FYI, The QBP part number is DP5516. I would imagine that
almost any LBS could get one

--
Greg Estep

(Pete Cresswell) said:

Anybody know how to get those nice little bugle shapes on
the poly lining - that prevent the lining from working
it's way out through the cable stops?

While the end is still hot from cutting it with a Dremel
tool, stick a nail of proper diameter in the hole. Sheldon's
web page will get you that far, I think.

My little addition is to use a finish nail, which has a
taper from the shank to the head. The taper imparts a bit of
a chamfer to the end of the housing.

Just make sure the nail is ready and waiting so you can
strike while the iron is hot.

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu

A sealed cable system would solve most of these problems.
Gore used to make a good sealed cable system but they are no
longer available. Dry Cable systems are a good sealed cable
system option.

webpages.charter.netHomeOpen ↗

"the blur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when
water and dirt would get in the ends of the brake and
derailleur cables, causing poor responsiveness in braking
and shifting, especially that last loop of derailleur
cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear
derailleur on my new bike to avoid water/grit. why do we
put all these stops etc on a frame?

--

Sheldon Brown said:

+----------------------------------------------------
-------+
| If you only know Mussorgski's Pictures at an Exhibition
| | from the Ravel or Stokowski "colorized" versions,
| (with | orchestra) seek out the original piano solo
| version. | I think it is much superior! |
+----------------------------------------------------
-------+

Several years ago a famous American bassist (I forget his
name) commissioned an arrangement of Pictures for string
bass and piano. The piano *accompanies* the bass! Amazing
recording. That Amatti(sp?) bass can sound like a cello.
--
---
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