Why not generator lights?

davidd86 said:

Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA? I
recently rigged up a system and all I can say is, it's one of the
half-dozen greatest things since sliced bread. No plugging in the
&%^ing recharger. No lights dying because I forgot to plug in the
&%*^ing recharger. No batteries to buy 24-packs of at Home Depot. Why
does everyone hate generator systems so much?

Lots of us don't. I've found that even quite inexpensive generator
lighting systems can work very well. In fact we were once pulled over
on our tandem by a cop who wanted to know where we got such a bright
bicycle light - it was a 12V/6W generator that cost about $15 from
Meijer's Thrifty Acres. OTOH, they can have some drawbacks. I've
had problems with the drive wheel losing traction on the tire when
riding through snow or slush; the light on most models goes out when
stopped so it can be good to supplement with a rear red blinky; and I've
had more frequent bulb failures than with battery systems since the
voltage is not as well regulated.

A good chunk of the US bicycle light market is the 24 hour mountain
bike race users. When climbing, a generator often produces inadequate
light. Yes, you might climb a bit faster without the weight of a 6A*H
battery but you don't have drag of a dynamo nor do you have the
traction problem when the course gets muddy, I know, hub mounted don't
have this problem but then when you have a flat.

The standard HID, even with the conical beam, is far superior on such
applications than any dynamo/generator setup. And a 6 degree spot HID
is superior for road use.

No doubt they are superior; it's just such a monumental pain in the neck to have to ensure that the battery's topped up. And with my NiteRider setup, if I go on a ride exceeding about 1:45 in length, there's an excellent chance of running out of juice altogether (and that's on the lowest regular beam setting). I mean unless you want to carry a car battery or something, I don't know how you could lick this problem.

I am not sure whether my NiteRider has Nicads or NiMH's, but the other problem with it is leakage. Even left parked for a day at the office, the battery seems to lose quite a bit of power. It's a brand new [$$ :-( ] battery too.

I agree, I wouldn't want to go mountain biking with the generator. It would go off at the worst possible times, and anyhow the beam seems kinda narrow.

kbob said:

A good chunk of the US bicycle light market is the 24 hour mountain
bike race users. When climbing, a generator often produces inadequate
light. Yes, you might climb a bit faster without the weight of a 6A*H
battery but you don't have drag of a dynamo nor do you have the
traction problem when the course gets muddy, I know, hub mounted don't
have this problem but then when you have a flat.

The standard HID, even with the conical beam, is far superior on such
applications than any dynamo/generator setup. And a 6 degree spot HID
is superior for road use.

davidd86 said:

Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA? I
recently rigged up a system and all I can say is, it's one of the
half-dozen greatest things since sliced bread. No plugging in the
&%^ing recharger. No lights dying because I forgot to plug in the
&%*^ing recharger. No batteries to buy 24-packs of at Home Depot.

Why

Quoted message said:

does everyone hate generator systems so much? It's not as though

they

Quoted message said:

hog huge amounts of legpower AFAICT. You just have to be going a few
miles per hour. And while not as bright as my [voracious
battery-sucking] NiteRider 12V setup, they're purdy doggone bright.

I was just wondering. I mean from most bike stores, even the
mail-order places, you can really only get battery lights. There

must

Quoted message said:

be a perfectly good reason. I mean, they are admittedly kinda
expensive, but not as much as the fancy rechargeable systems.

[Anyone

Quoted message said:

who says, 'well gee they weigh a frikkin' _pound_ or two and as such
they're no good for training or daily riding' will be taken to the
courtyard and shot. ;-) In any case they're far less heavy than the
mongo rechargeable setups.]

--
davidd86

*****************************************8

I have always LOVED generators but, of all the people that I ride with,
there is only ONE other person that uses one.

Maybe the fact that they are SO simple and work flawlessly is what
scares most people away from them. :-)

On most of my bikes, I also have battery lights, too. Not the
expensive ones but the LED ones that add visibility and last forever
(it seems like) on a set of AA batteries.

For the rear I always have at least one 'blinky' light.
Lewis.

*********************************

David-<< Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I answer-they don't 'hate' them but by and large, cycling in the US is a
leisure time activity and people that ride, do so for fun/exercise, not as
transportation. Some of us do but most do not, particularly when it gets
dark/cold out.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

davidd86 said:

Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA?

Well, most people's experiences with generators goes back to the 60's
and 70's with cheap Soubitez bottle generators. Not so satisfactory.
Modern generators (called dynamos almost everywhere but here in the
US) are so much better. Among the randonneuring crowd in the US, the
Schmidt SON is the ne plus ultra of generators. I have one and it is
superb; I ain't going back to the hassles of battery lights except for
short-term (caught at dusk on my racing bike) rides in the dark.

OTOH, LED taillights are markedly superior to incandecent ones that
are usually used with generators. I use these without a second
thought.

kbob said:

A good chunk of the US bicycle light market is the 24 hour mountain
bike race users. When climbing, a generator often produces
inadequate light. Yes, you might climb a bit faster without the
weight of a 6A*H battery but you don't have drag of a dynamo nor do
you have the traction problem when the course gets muddy, I know,
hub mounted don't have this problem but then when you have a flat.

The probem is the low speed of off-road riding tending to cause
flickering of the light. With a proper hub generator, the slippage
problem is eliminated and drag is imperceptible.

Quoted message said:

The standard HID, even with the conical beam, is far superior on
such applications than any dynamo/generator setup. And a 6 degree
spot HID is superior for road use.

Malarkey. This is simply a perpetuation of the myth that a "good"
headlight is one that replicates full sun lighting conditions. This
actually makes it harder to see well at night by interfering with dark
adaptation of the retina. Close objects are overly bright with these
lights and dazzle the eye, much like looking into the headlights of an
oncoming car. I see better with my Schmidt hub with a 3W Lumotec Oval
lamp than I have ever seen with any of my high-powered battery lights.
Even descending at 40 mph on curvy roads is fine.

There's been many threads on this topic already.

(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) said:

David-<< Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol'
USA?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I answer-they don't 'hate' them but by and large, cycling in the US
is a leisure time activity and people that ride, do so for
fun/exercise, not as transportation. Some of us do but most do not,
particularly when it gets dark/cold out.

Yes, and they will never know the joy of an all-night ride in the
country.

Tim McNamara said:

OTOH, LED taillights are markedly superior to incandecent ones that
are usually used with generators. I use these without a second
thought.

Why not use one of the wide selection of standlight-equipped LED rear
lights for use with dynamos?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

Tim McNamara wrote:
....LED taillights are markedly superior to incandecent ones that

Quoted message said:

are usually used with generators. I use these without a second
thought.

Have you tried the relatively large Union rear incandescent tail lamp?
This can be seen on Andy Muzi's page for generators
http://www.yellowjersey.org/dynamos.html

This is a much more effective tail lamp than the other incandescent
tail lamps that I've used, including smaller Union models. I've used
this along with a Vista lite VL 700 LED taillight and the combination
of the steady Union incandescent lamp and blinking taillight is in my
opinion better than either one alone.

Rear LED taillights vary substantially in their effectiveness, some are
extremely poor and might if anything give a false sense of security to
a rider, while others are quite impressive.
A good rear reflector is also be helpful.

Bill Putnam

davidd86 said:

Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA?

In my opinion, the number one reason is that so many USA riders only
have experience with the low-output, high-drag bottle generators that
were the norm as an accessory in year past.

Quoted message said:

I recently rigged up a system and all I can say is, it's one of the
half-dozen greatest things since sliced bread. No plugging in the
&%^ing recharger. No lights dying because I forgot to plug in the
&%*^ing recharger. No batteries to buy 24-packs of at Home Depot. Why
does everyone hate generator systems so much? It's not as though they
hog huge amounts of legpower AFAICT. You just have to be going a few
miles per hour. And while not as bright as my [voracious
battery-sucking] NiteRider 12V setup, they're purdy doggone bright.

However, when sitting still at a traffic light, lack of a
battery-powered light can help to make a cyclist invisible to drivers.
many generator users find that front and rear LED flashers help to
overcome this without eating tons of batteries.

Quoted message said:

I was just wondering. I mean from most bike stores, even the
mail-order places, you can really only get battery lights. There must
be a perfectly good reason.

It's purely lack of demand; Murricans generally don't believe that the
generators are any damn good (because the ones they used to have were
less than satisfactory), and they're not willing to gamble on a
non-cheap one because battery lights generally do the job well enough
for most riders...at a lower cost.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

davidd86 said:

Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA? I
recently rigged up a system and all I can say is, it's one of the
half-dozen greatest things since sliced bread. No plugging in the
&%^ing recharger. No lights dying because I forgot to plug in the
&%*^ing recharger. No batteries to buy 24-packs of at Home Depot. Why
does everyone hate generator systems so much? It's not as though they
hog huge amounts of legpower AFAICT. You just have to be going a few
miles per hour. And while not as bright as my [voracious
battery-sucking] NiteRider 12V setup, they're purdy doggone bright.

I was just wondering. I mean from most bike stores, even the
mail-order places, you can really only get battery lights. There must
be a perfectly good reason. I mean, they are admittedly kinda
expensive, but not as much as the fancy rechargeable systems. [Anyone
who says, 'well gee they weigh a frikkin' _pound_ or two and as such
they're no good for training or daily riding' will be taken to the
courtyard and shot. ;-) In any case they're far less heavy than the
mongo rechargeable setups.]

(a) Fashion

(b) Unfounded fears that they sap huge amounts of energy (in fact, it's
about 5% of the cruising power of your typical touriing cyclist).

i witness a lot of bike junk going into the dumpster
and some of it contains old generators at $$$.

David D? said:

Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA? I
recently rigged up a system and all I can say is, it's one of the
half-dozen greatest things since sliced bread. No plugging in the
&%^ing recharger. No lights dying because I forgot to plug in the
&%*^ing recharger. No batteries to buy 24-packs of at Home Depot.
Why does everyone hate generator systems so much? It's not as
though they hog huge amounts of leg power AFAICT. You just have to
be going a few miles per hour. And while not as bright as my
[voracious battery-sucking] NiteRider 12V setup, they're purdy
doggone bright.

Most bicyclists do not see their bicycle as a piece of basic
transportation but rather a sport activity. I believe that they don't
want to encumber their sporty steed with night tine equipment that
cannot readily be left off for their outings. Therefore, detachable
battery driven lamps are preferred. Besides, the generator assemblies
are generally more expensive and intrusive on the bicycle with
permanent wiring.

The secondary effect is that when stopped, there is no light. That
gets to the other riders who use their bicycles as transportation and
are concerned about the safety aspect of lighting rather than
illuminating the surface of the road. Many riders that I see with
bright lighting aim it directly at oncoming traffic (high beam) and
don't seem to care much about the road surface.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Most bicyclists do not see their bicycle as a piece of basic
transportation but rather a sport activity.

In the US certainly...

Quoted message said:

I believe that they don't want to encumber their sporty steed with
night tine equipment that cannot readily be left off for their
outings.

I've a front wheel with a SON and one or two 3W Lumotec wired to it,
battery powered LED in the back. Randonneurs often clamp the front
light directly on the QR. Easy to pop in and out, but seems to be
somewhat unknown...

Quoted message said:

The secondary effect is that when stopped, there is no light.

IMO not much of an issue, but recent headlights feature an LED
powered by a goldcap or similar.

It might take some time until recent technology catches on, if it
does at all in the US where the bicycle market is mostly sports
driven.

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

dynohubbill said:

Tim McNamara wrote:
...LED taillights are markedly superior to incandecent ones that

Quoted message said:

are usually used with generators. I use these without a second
thought.

Have you tried the relatively large Union rear incandescent tail
lamp?

I've not, in part because I don't feel like running the wires around
the frame and fender.

David Damerell said:

Tim McNamara said:

OTOH, LED taillights are markedly superior to incandecent ones that
are usually used with generators. I use these without a second
thought.

Why not use one of the wide selection of standlight-equipped LED
rear lights for use with dynamos?

Don't want wires all over the place. Purely an aesthetic prejudice.
The old French guys like Routens, Singer and Herse had some innovative
wiring methods to hide the wires- in the case of Herse the "eclairage
sans fils" which used a brush contact in the head tube rather than a
wire crossing between frame and fork.

Werehatrack said:

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:03:54 +1100, davidd86
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do people hate generator lights so much in the good ol' USA?

Quoted message said:

In my opinion, the number one reason is that so many USA riders only
have experience with the low-output, high-drag bottle generators that
were the norm as an accessory in year past.

This is true. Besides being ineffective and unreliable, they had crappy
mounting hardware and would never stay on the tire. You'd hit a bump and they'd
go into the spokes. Many of us had these when we were kids, and eventually gave
up on lights altogether. We would have loved to have had good ones, but bike
shops only sold the [censored]. It's probably just as well, because kids know the
good stuff, and it would be stolen anyway.

Quoted message said:

It's purely lack of demand; Murricans generally don't believe that the
generators are any damn good (because the ones they used to have were
less than satisfactory), and they're not willing to gamble on a
non-cheap one because battery lights generally do the job well enough
for most riders...at a lower cost.

I don't know about that. People might buy them if they were offered. A $40-60
Union light set costs less than most rechargeables, and can still compete with
"cheaper" alkaline powered units and their high battery cost.

The problem is too few people ride at night regularly enough to justify the
expense. Those that do feel more secure with the more powerful/expensive
systems, and don't mind paying for them.

Finally -- this is no different than the hundreds of other items your LBS
chooses not to carry, for whatever reason. I rarely find what I'm looking for
in a LBS. But all of it is available via mail order. So quit complaining. If
your LBS fails to meet your needs, it's their loss, and not your problem.

Matt O.

Tim McNamara said:

Well, most people's experiences with generators goes back to the 60's
and 70's with cheap Soubitez bottle generators. Not so satisfactory.

We would have been so lucky. Most of our experiences were with Asian copies of
those. And Asia back then wasn't the quality manufacturing center it is now.

Matt O.