Why Lance will win Giro or TDF

steve26 said:

No One puts in more preparation!

Wind Tunnel Training

ah yes, the fans are still buying the line 'trains/prepares harder than anyone else' hook, line & sinker

btw steve, there is no santa claus

steve26 said:

No One puts in more preparation!

Wind Tunnel Training

That's right nobody else prepares much at all.
Those Livestrong coloured glasses are blocking your view.

What about all the other riders who spend tim ein the wind tunnels?

These are the ones I can think of off hand from recent articles.
Cadel Evans, Alberto Contador, Levi Leipheimer, Samuel Sanchez, Mikel Astarloza, Igor Anton, Haimar Zubeldia, Christian Vande Velde.

I'm sure with contributions from others and a little searching we can find a huge list of riders who test likewise.

I agree with Earth_Dweller, the old propoganda of training harder/prepare better etc 🙄
Geez even on his twitter diary he sayed something on the lines of quiting a training ride because the weather was no good. A half hour training ride if I recall correctly.

I heard he ties his own shoes too.

After 2 hours in the wind tunnel, they were still not sure where to put his only ball. Some positions are very good, he can win 2 or 3 sec in an hour ITT but it's very painfull too.
Lance is great, he can beat the pain too!

poulidor said:

they were still not sure where to put his only ball.

Good line. I must say it made me chuckle.

Well, I'm sure the pro's classify doping as a training technique soooo....

Lance trains harder than everyone else (apart from say, AC, Piti, Basso...)

earth_dweller said:

ah yes, the fans are still buying the line 'trains/prepares harder than anyone else' hook, line & sinker

btw steve, there is no santa claus

Well, at least I have the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy.

serious question: If Astana and Armstrong were planning to dope how could they do it whilst undertaking UCI, Daammasguard and Catlin testing ? Can you really get around these tests ? I know Bro posted something a while back and why I think that Astana will be doping it up big time I'm trying to understand how they beat the testing to do so ?

whiteboytrash said:

serious question: If Astana and Armstrong were planning to dope how could they do it whilst undertaking UCI, Daammasguard and Catlin testing ? Can you really get around these tests ? I know Bro posted something a while back and why I think that Astana will be doping it up big time I'm trying to understand how they beat the testing to do so ?

good question. So far, not only as Catlin not taken any samples, he and Armstrong have not agreed on the testing & protocols, so is Catlin really going to do any tests? that remains to be seen.

Is Damsgaard still involved with the team? I don't remember reading anything about that since LA returned (of course, I stay away from most of the never ending stories about the team).

And do you believe that CSC was clean last year? they were tested by Damsgard all year.

earth_dweller said:

And do you believe that CSC was clean last year? they were tested by Damsgard all year.

Exactly. And who do you think was watching it unfold like a hawk. Armstrong. There will be something new doing the rounds. Something Armstrong has complete faith in as evidenced by CSC in 2008. He is probably backing himself over them on the same substance(s).

Any positive test will utterly destroy him, his company, his charity and anything associated with him simply due to the cacophony of doubters ready to descend on him like Moses to Job - Old Testament style.

He is either clean as a whistle of has absolute certainty in the protocols and substances he has at his disposal. Or he is stupid. Or he is an emotive gambler with a personality disorder. In which case 2009 could be bigger than the episode of 'Days of our Lives' when Bo married Hope.

Geoff Vadar said:

......Or he is stupid. Or he is an emotive gambler with a personality disorder. In which case 2009 could be bigger than the episode of 'Days of our Lives' when Bo married Hope.

I thought Bo got kidnapped & Hope couldn't find him only to later make contact & he'd changed into a different actor but with the same unconvincing beard.....

I'd go with personality disorder. Just the way he talks of other dopers. For a man claiming to be clean as a babies bottom he has hardtime sticking the boot into other dopers.

Once more I still can't work out how he'll get around the tests. ie the blood passport ? or do you think he's got those boys at the UcI bought ?

whiteboytrash said:

Once more I still can't work out how he'll get around the tests. ie the blood passport ? or do you think he's got those boys at the UcI bought ?

I'll just take a stab in the dark and say he (or Doc Ferrari) has that all covered.
For every sample that has to be given ensure the HCT level is up at an acceptable level so his datum point appears naturally higher and since I would say he is only going to race for 6 months it might not be all that hard to manage.
It would be interesting to compare what his passport values are to the figures mentioned in that cyclingweekly interview where he said it was 39
normally and jumped to 46 during the TDF.

Quoted post said:

What's the highest haematocrit you ever registered?
Er…I don't know. Maybe… 45, 46.

Haematocrit is a tricky number. In 2003 I started the Tour at 39. It varies greatly depending on effort the day before, dehydration, altitude.

In the last couple of years I've been 47 48. It doesn't mean I've been out taking illegal drugs. I think starting the Tour at 39, that's a compelling number.

disclaimer :- I don't know the hows whys etc. of the blood passport system and would thinkn it should be more complicated than that.

back on topic though.
Perhaps Steve26 is onto something as I noted in todays news an article about Astana out training, but there was no news that anybody else was. :eek:

🙄 :p

As we have seen on last GIRO and TDF, performances of riders were still too high. Some riders were caught, maybe some others would be in trouble with the biopassport but mot of them will be "free".
So it's possible to beat the biopassport on a short period.
Later the baselines are established more possibilies to dope are open, so probably Lance is trying to invalid the data collected by introducing big variations. For the other riders who have datas collected on a long period now they will have fewer possibilities to cheat.

With the LAF Lance has got a lot of connection with lab and researchers, fraudulent Dr like Coyle exist...

poulidor said:

As we have seen on last GIRO and TDF, performances of riders were still too high. Some riders were caught, maybe some others would be in trouble with the biopassport but mot of them will be "free".
So it's possible to beat the biopassport on a short period.
Later the baselines are established more possibilies to dope are open, so probably Lance is trying to invalid the data collected by introducing big variations. For the other riders who have datas collected on a long period now they will have fewer possibilities to cheat.

With the LAF Lance has got a lot of connection with lab and researchers, fraudulent Dr like Coyle exist...

The passport is a good idea but does it really help catching the bad guys. Last year all I can think of was that they target tested for example the CSC boys because of irregular values but were any of them caught?

On the other hand...they did catch Ricco, Kohl, etc. so were they especially targeted? Just realised this when I was writing this. If they did catch them because they could target them based on irregular blood passport values that would mean that the system works!

RdBiker said:

On the other hand...they did catch Ricco, Kohl, etc. so were they especially targeted? Just realised this when I was writing this. If they did catch them because they could target them based on irregular blood passport values that would mean that the system works!

Well no it didn't work as the Tour guys were busted by the AFLD who were not using passport data. They were just smart enough to take a blood sample at the start & compare it to the remaining tests. Once they busted a couple they went & retested for CERA again. Do you really think the UCI will use something as simple as this ? errr no. They'll take a [censored] sample here & there then bust someone coming 57th.

whiteboytrash said:

Well no it didn't work as the Tour guys were busted by the AFLD who were not using passport data. They were just smart enough to take a blood sample at the start & compare it to the remaining tests. Once they busted a couple they went & retested for CERA again. Do you really think the UCI will use something as simple as this ? errr no. They'll take a [censored] sample here & there then bust someone coming 57th.

Ok thanks, for I while I was thinking the UCI wanted to catch the cheats and the passports would work 🙂

Btw are they still pushing forward with them and improving them since at some point there was something about the project running out of money?

RdBiker said:

Ok thanks, for I while I was thinking the UCI wanted to catch the cheats and the passports would work 🙂

By refusing the retesting of GIRO samples UCI proved his willing to catch cheaters

whiteboytrash said:

serious question: If Astana and Armstrong were planning to dope how could they do it whilst undertaking UCI, Daammasguard and Catlin testing ? Can you really get around these tests ? I know Bro posted something a while back and why I think that Astana will be doping it up big time I'm trying to understand how they beat the testing to do so ?

Whether it be designer drugs, genetic manipulation or some other yet to be revealed method, there is no question that Lance will use the most sophisticated means out there to beat the system again. He has always had the financial resources to buy the very best.
You can’t test for something you don’t know exists. That is the mantra of the successful doper.
A quote from the BALCO fallout:
"When we do the regular tests on a sample that contains THG we don't see it," explains Catlin. "It disintegrates. It is not stable under the [hot] temperatures. You don't see anything."

Is gene doping a viable option nowadays?