Why isn't Lance racing the Giro?



In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Your right, because winning the double twice makes Indurain a more
> > complete Champion. I think it's a shame that Lance has not tried to
> > win the Giro or the Vuelta.
>
> Is it a shame that Jan hasn't (doubled) either? Why race the Giro and risk
> losing the Tour? Indurain is still best known for his TdF wins. Lance will
> always be known for beating cancer, and winning the TdF. I'm surprised more
> riders don't attempt the Giro/Vuelta double. It would seem to be a lot
> easier.

In Lance's defense (one of the very few times I will do so), he came to
the '98 Vuelta well prepared and took 4th place. But it is absolutely
absurd that our Tour champion has not visited the Giro or the Vuelta
since. Merckx would sometimes take a year off from the Tour and focus
on a different set of races. Why couldn't Armstrong? It's not like his
passionate love affair with the race keeps him coming back, from
appearances. It's work, that's how he approaches it and that's how it
looks...

-Sonarrat.
 
"Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Your right, because winning the double twice makes Indurain a more
> > complete Champion. I think it's a shame that Lance has not tried to
> > win the Giro or the Vuelta.
>
> Is it a shame that Jan hasn't (doubled) either? Why race the Giro and risk
> losing the Tour? Indurain is still best known for his TdF wins. Lance will
> always be known for beating cancer, and winning the TdF. I'm surprised more
> riders don't attempt the Giro/Vuelta double. It would seem to be a lot
> easier.

I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
would have ample time to prepare for the TDF
>
> -T
 
Sonarrat wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>"Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Your right, because winning the double twice makes Indurain a more
>>>complete Champion. I think it's a shame that Lance has not tried to
>>>win the Giro or the Vuelta.
>>
>>Is it a shame that Jan hasn't (doubled) either? Why race the Giro and risk
>>losing the Tour? Indurain is still best known for his TdF wins. Lance will
>>always be known for beating cancer, and winning the TdF. I'm surprised more
>>riders don't attempt the Giro/Vuelta double. It would seem to be a lot
>>easier.
>
>
> In Lance's defense (one of the very few times I will do so), he came to
> the '98 Vuelta well prepared and took 4th place. But it is absolutely
> absurd that our Tour champion has not visited the Giro or the Vuelta
> since. Merckx would sometimes take a year off from the Tour and focus
> on a different set of races.


When was that? Wasn't he injured in '73 when Ocana won?
AFAIK, Merckx focused on every race.

Steve


Why couldn't Armstrong? It's not like his
> passionate love affair with the race keeps him coming back, from
> appearances. It's work, that's how he approaches it and that's how it
> looks...
>
> -Sonarrat.
 
"Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > David Ryan wrote:
> > > Kyle Legate wrote:
> > >
> > >> "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >> news:[email protected]...
> > >>
> > >>> [email protected] (Kenny) wrote in message
> > >>
> > >> news:<[email protected]>...
> > >>
> > >>>> And that's why I still put Indurain above Armstrong: he managed to
> > >>>> win
> > >>
> > >> two doubles.
> > >>
> > >>> At this point I tend to agree with you about Indurain. But if Lance
> > >>> wins a 6th tdf one would have to re-examine issue.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> No one wouldn't. Even if Lance wins a 6th he still hasn't won two
> > >> doubles.
> > >
> > > And no one else has won six, including Merckx. So?
> > >
> > That's fine for the record books but it means little in terms of
relative
> > athletic prowess. By virtue of his two doubles, Indurain would still
have
> > won one more GT than LANCE.
>
> Your right, because winning the double twice makes Indurain a more
> complete Champion. I think it's a shame that Lance has not tried to
> win the Giro or the Vuelta.

Even when Indurain won the Giro it was still a lot less racing tour than it
is now. Now it's a full fledged killer that saps most riders for more than a
month after. You'll notice that Tyler Hamilton isn't trying any funny
business and I believe that he could offer Simoni a good race.
 
"Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
> understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
> For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
> would have ample time to prepare for the TDF

If you make a try for a race and then lose it gives heart to your
competitors. It gives them confidence that you're human. And makes your job
a lot harder.

Lance has his method of peaking for the Tour developed to a fine science and
he would be foolish to threaten his methods by changing things too
drastically.
 
"Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
> understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
> For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
> would have ample time to prepare for the TDF
> >

Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year since
1999.

-T
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Sonarrat <[email protected]> wrote:

> In Lance's defense (one of the very few times I will do so), he came to
> the '98 Vuelta well prepared and took 4th place.

It seemed to me that he didn't show up at that Vuelta with thoughts of a
win, more that he wanted to see just how he could do in a three week stage
race after the recovery from cancer. It was something of a revelation to
him (imo) that he was able to do as well as he did in getting fourth.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Moby **** was a work of art, What the hell happened?"


remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
Tom Schulenburg <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> > I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
> > understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
> > For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
> > would have ample time to prepare for the TDF

> Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year since
> 1999.

Ullrich raced (rode) the Giro in 2001 to "race into shape" for the TdF.
He looked awful, but rode well in the TdF - just not well enough.
IOW, I agree with your point - not many GC riders have been in
legitimate contention in two GTs since 1999. There are a few
who have ridden well in the Tour GC and contended in the Vuelta,
but none of those have won it (unless you count Heras 2000).
Specificity, specificity, specificity.
 
On 05/17/2004 11:24 PM, in article
[email protected], "Tom Schulenburg"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
>> understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
>> For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
>> would have ample time to prepare for the TDF
>>>
>
> Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year since
> 1999.


Gilberto Simoni
Tyler Hamilton



--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
 
Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
>>understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
>>For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
>>would have ample time to prepare for the TDF
>>
>
> Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year since
> 1999.
>


Simoni, 2004.

Dan
 
"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> > "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> >>I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
> >>understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
> >>For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
> >>would have ample time to prepare for the TDF
> >>
> >
> > Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year
since
> > 1999.
> >
>
>
> Simoni, 2004.
>
> Dan
>

HAHAHAHAH - I don't consider finishing 84th, 2 1/2 hours back (2003),
contending for the Tour. Do you really think he'll finish in the top ten
this year?

-T
 
"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BCCF5149.31CC3%[email protected]...
> On 05/17/2004 11:24 PM, in article

><SNIP>> >

> > Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year
since
> > 1999.
>
>
> Gilberto Simoni
> Tyler Hamilton
>

And when did they finish in the top 10 in the Tour after riding the Giro?

-T
 
in article [email protected], Tom Schulenburg at
[email protected] wrote on 5/17/04 10:24 PM:

>
> "Charles Hizark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I just think it's a bit chicken to avoid the Giro. What I can't
>> understand however is why Lance has refused to try for a Vuelta win.
>> For Lance it's worth the risk. Even if he were to lose the Vuelta he
>> would have ample time to prepare for the TDF
>>>
>
> Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year since
> 1999.

Gilberto Simoni
Stefano Garzelli
Aitor Gonzalez
Sandy Casar
Georg Totschnig
Andrea Noe (arguable, but he was there)

....Just to name those from last year.

(Did any of them do well in both? One did - Totschnig took 9th in the Giro,
12th in the Tour.)

-Sonarrat.
 
"Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BCCFFA1C.34C3%[email protected]...
> > >
> > Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year
since
> > 1999.
>
> Gilberto Simoni
> Stefano Garzelli
> Aitor Gonzalez
> Sandy Casar
> Georg Totschnig
> Andrea Noe (arguable, but he was there)
>
> ...Just to name those from last year.
>
> (Did any of them do well in both? One did - Totschnig took 9th in the
Giro,
> 12th in the Tour.)
>
> -Sonarrat.
>

None of the people you've mentioned were TdF contenders - Cherrypicking
stage wins when you're 2 hours down on GC does not make a person a
contender. My point is - people who race and win the Giro in the last 5
years have not contended for the overall in the TdF. People who are
considered to be contenders - Ullrich, Beloki, Mayo, Hamilton, Heras(just
kidding), etc are not racing the Giro this year. There are some great
riders who have done the double, there are even more who haven't.

-T
 
in article [email protected], Tom Schulenburg
at [email protected] wrote on 5/18/04 6:20 PM:

>
> "Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BCCFFA1C.34C3%[email protected]...
>>>>
>>> Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year
> since
>>> 1999.
>>
>> Gilberto Simoni
>> Stefano Garzelli
>> Aitor Gonzalez
>> Sandy Casar
>> Georg Totschnig
>> Andrea Noe (arguable, but he was there)
>>
>> ...Just to name those from last year.
>>
>> (Did any of them do well in both? One did - Totschnig took 9th in the
> Giro,
>> 12th in the Tour.)
>>
>> -Sonarrat.
>>
>
> None of the people you've mentioned were TdF contenders -

Yes, they were. They failed (except for Totschnig) but they were
nonetheless highly touted contenders... Garzelli went well for all of two
Alpine stages before losing 32 minutes into Gap and then abandoning, and
Simoni, Noe and Casar also suffered fatal time losses early on in the Alps.
Gonzalez, of course, went out with the "team sickness" which left Ivan Basso
to forge his own path...

Totschnig, on the other hand, did quite well, perhaps the best of anyone
riding both races since the Pantani double (though I wouldn't swear to it).
This year, he skipped the Giro...

-Sonarrat.
 
"Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BCD027C7.34CA%[email protected]...
> in article [email protected], Tom
Schulenburg
> at [email protected] wrote on 5/18/04 6:20 PM:
>
> >
> > "Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:BCCFFA1C.34C3%[email protected]...
> >>>>
> >>> Name one TdF contender who has raced the Giro and TdF the same year
> > since
> >>> 1999.
> >>
> >> Gilberto Simoni
> >> Stefano Garzelli
> >> Aitor Gonzalez
> >> Sandy Casar
> >> Georg Totschnig
> >> Andrea Noe (arguable, but he was there)
> >>
> >> ...Just to name those from last year.
> >>
> >> (Did any of them do well in both? One did - Totschnig took 9th in the
> > Giro,
> >> 12th in the Tour.)
> >>
> >> -Sonarrat.
> >>
> >
> > None of the people you've mentioned were TdF contenders -
>
> Yes, they were. They failed (except for Totschnig) but they were
> nonetheless highly touted contenders... Garzelli went well for all of two
> Alpine stages before losing 32 minutes into Gap and then abandoning, and
> Simoni, Noe and Casar also suffered fatal time losses early on in the
Alps.
> Gonzalez, of course, went out with the "team sickness" which left Ivan
Basso
> to forge his own path...
>
> Totschnig, on the other hand, did quite well, perhaps the best of anyone
> riding both races since the Pantani double (though I wouldn't swear to
it).
> This year, he skipped the Giro...
>
> -Sonarrat.

Well, if Lance wanted to finish 20 minutes back, I guess the people that you
named have shown what's possible. Nobody riding the Giro this year will
finish in the top five of the Tour.

-T
 
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