Why/How Basso improved in TT

Jan said:

From the Cervelo newsletter.
Jan

Eighteen months of focus paid off yesterday for Ivan Basso, as the
once-mediocre time trialist blasted through the 45km 8th stage of the

Giro d

Quoted message said:

'Italia and left a path of distruction in his wake. On his brand-new

P3

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Carbon with Wolf TT fork, Basso gained 1min39 on Garzelli, 2min7 on

Cunego

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and 2min37 on Simoni. Even reknowned time trailer Sergei Gontchar

lost 36

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seconds to Basso.

But it hasn't been easy for Basso to get where he is today. Prior to

riding

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for Team CSC, he had never trained on his time trial bike. He didn't

have a

Quoted message said:

TT bike at home, he didn't train on one in the training camps, the

only time

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he would ride one would be in races. That all changed when he came to

Team

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CSC.

Lets see..., he's shown dramatic improvement and he's riding for CSC...
the only thing missing from this story is a positive test result.

routebeer said:

Lets see..., he's shown dramatic improvement and he's riding for CSC...
the only thing missing from this story is a positive test result.

Dumbass,

That's the thing that's missing from the CSC story in general. Their
success comes from a combination of tight Fassa-like control and
Euskaltel-like cohesion and camraderie.

-Sonarrat.

sonarrat said:

routebeer said:

Lets see..., he's shown dramatic improvement and he's riding for

CSC...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the only thing missing from this story is a positive test result.

Dumbass,

That's the thing that's missing from the CSC story in general. Their

Quoted message said:

success comes from a combination of tight Fassa-like control and
Euskaltel-like cohesion and camraderie.

-Sonarrat.

Oh yes, so he needs to leave and then test positive. I knew I forgot
something.

I don't know how tight they can be when you consider how quick Olympic
Gold Medalist Tyler Hamilton disappeared from their ranks after a
little success during a stage of the Tour. But Bjarne does look like a
pretty cool boss to work for.

routebeer said:

sonarrat said:

routebeer said:

Lets see..., he's shown dramatic improvement and he's riding for

CSC...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the only thing missing from this story is a positive test result.

Dumbass,

That's the thing that's missing from the CSC story in general. Their

Quoted message said:

success comes from a combination of tight Fassa-like control and
Euskaltel-like cohesion and camraderie.

-Sonarrat.

Oh yes, so he needs to leave and then test positive. I knew I forgot
something.

I don't know how tight they can be when you consider how quick Olympic
Gold Medalist Tyler Hamilton disappeared from their ranks after a
little success during a stage of the Tour. But Bjarne does look like a
pretty cool boss to work for.

Tyler's defection to Phonak was about money. The one thing Riis cannot
offer is a big paycheck, because he's working with a very small budget
compared with the heavy hitters. Phonak does not have that problem.

-Sonarrat.

Actually you're wrong there. Phonak offered Tyler a team that would
back him up. Riis offered him a team of good riders who might ride for
themselves alla Simoni and Cunego.

One of the reasons that Lance is so successful is that it doesn't
matter to the team management if he's feeling bad today, their money is
on Lance and Lance alone. He doesn't have to worry that Chechu is going
to try for his own sake instead of the team. He doesn't have to worry
that Azevedo, who can put the hurt on any other rider when he's good,
will try to show everyone how good he is and forget the team.

Tyler did the right thing. The questions about his positive still ring
loudly. Why is WADA refusing to do a False Positives Study?

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually you're wrong there. Phonak offered Tyler a team that would
back him up. Riis offered him a team of good riders who might ride for
themselves alla Simoni and Cunego.

One of the reasons that Lance is so successful is that it doesn't
matter to the team management if he's feeling bad today, their money is
on Lance and Lance alone. He doesn't have to worry that Chechu is going
to try for his own sake instead of the team. He doesn't have to worry
that Azevedo, who can put the hurt on any other rider when he's good,
will try to show everyone how good he is and forget the team.

Tyler did the right thing. The questions about his positive still ring
loudly. Why is WADA refusing to do a False Positives Study?

I have to agree with Kunich on this. I saw a piece on Danish TV about Tyler
in the Tour 2003. He was livid when Riis went to look after the eventual
stage winner (don't remember if it was the stage Pil won, or the won Sastre
won) and left him without support. Wasn't a very flattering view of Tyler.
He came off looking like a spoiled brat. Of course he was in a lot of pain
at the time from a shoulder broken in two places, so maybe some allowances
should be make for that.

He gave his reason for going to Phonak as being able to have a team built
around him for the Tour. Plus, if he had won the Tour or even come in second
behind Armstrong, he could have cashed in probably more than any salary
boost the Phonak would be good for. So if he thought he had a better chance
of success with CSC in the Tour 2004, he might have stayed with them even
for, rather than is spite of monetary reasons.

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

He gave his reason for going to Phonak as being able to have a team
built around him for the Tour.

Guys with the same blood type?

Apparently those big Swiss drug companies are better than the little
Danish ones too.

"trg" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email hidden]...
I have to agree with Kunich on this. I saw a piece on Danish TV about

Tyler

Quoted message said:

in the Tour 2003. He was livid when Riis went to look after the eventual
stage winner (don't remember if it was the stage Pil won, or the won

Sastre

Quoted message said:

won) and left him without support. Wasn't a very flattering view of Tyler.
He came off looking like a spoiled brat. Of course he was in a lot of pain
at the time from a shoulder broken in two places, so maybe some allowances
should be make for that.

It was Sastre who won. Riis said in the same broadcast that it was the
toughest decision he ever had to make, whether to stay with Tyler og go with
Sastre. Personally I think Tyler had the support he could expect. He had a
broken collarbone and was barely hanging on the peloton in the first stages.
He could not count on the entire team (and the sponsors) sacrificing what
turned out to be 2 stage wins at the price of everyone dragging him through
day after day.

Quoted message said:

He gave his reason for going to Phonak as being able to have a team built
around him for the Tour. Plus, if he had won the Tour or even come in

second

Quoted message said:

behind Armstrong, he could have cashed in probably more than any salary
boost the Phonak would be good for. So if he thought he had a better

chance

Quoted message said:

of success with CSC in the Tour 2004, he might have stayed with them even
for, rather than is spite of monetary reasons.

He had the team built around him in the 2004 Tour, and skipped because of
back pain...hmm, and the year before he didn't have the team he wanted and
he sat thru 3 weeks of hell!?. I think he went for the money, which is fine
by me, he should just have come clean (no pun).

HB

"HB" <marrone-ALPHA_A-sol.dk> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email hidden]...
I have to agree with Kunich on this. I saw a piece on Danish TV about

Tyler

Quoted message said:

in the Tour 2003. He was livid when Riis went to look after the eventual
stage winner (don't remember if it was the stage Pil won, or the won

Sastre

Quoted message said:

won) and left him without support. Wasn't a very flattering view of

Tyler.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He came off looking like a spoiled brat. Of course he was in a lot of

pain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at the time from a shoulder broken in two places, so maybe some

allowances

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should be make for that.

It was Sastre who won. Riis said in the same broadcast that it was the
toughest decision he ever had to make, whether to stay with Tyler og go

with

Quoted message said:

Sastre. Personally I think Tyler had the support he could expect. He had a
broken collarbone and was barely hanging on the peloton in the first

stages.

Quoted message said:

He could not count on the entire team (and the sponsors) sacrificing what
turned out to be 2 stage wins at the price of everyone dragging him

through

Quoted message said:

day after day.

Quoted message said:

He gave his reason for going to Phonak as being able to have a team

built

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

around him for the Tour. Plus, if he had won the Tour or even come in

second

Quoted message said:

behind Armstrong, he could have cashed in probably more than any salary
boost the Phonak would be good for. So if he thought he had a better

chance

Quoted message said:

of success with CSC in the Tour 2004, he might have stayed with them

even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for, rather than is spite of monetary reasons.

He had the team built around him in the 2004 Tour, and skipped because of
back pain...hmm, and the year before he didn't have the team he wanted and
he sat thru 3 weeks of hell!?. I think he went for the money, which is

fine

Quoted message said:

by me, he should just have come clean (no pun).

HB

I don't think it was about the level of pain. It was about the performance
possible given the injury. I've both broken a shoulder and also had back
problems, they both hurt like hell, but you screw up your back and game over
for just about any sport. Hamilton said he no longer had any power after the
back injury. I believe him. Besides, as I said, if he could come in 1st or
even second behind Armstrong while on CSC, the money that would generate for
him would more than make up for any pay raise that Phonak would give him.

BTW, if there was a pun that you were avoiding with "come clean", I missed
it. Maybe it only works in Dansk, or maybe I'm just thick today 🙂

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...
....

Quoted message said:

Tyler did the right thing. The questions about his positive still ring
loudly. Why is WADA refusing to do a False Positives Study?

I don't think such a study is necessary. The test that found Hamilton
positive clearly detects different red blood cells and Hamilton did not
dispute that. This means that he himself did not believe in the possibility
of a false positive.

Both Zabby and Basso looked really great (positions) on their TT bikes
in the photos I saw. More evidence of the influence that Riis has on
his team. It is very cool to watch unfold. I can't wait for Christian
to start moving up too. At this point Riis' reputation helps him
attract a lot of talent without getting too outrageous with salary
offers.

Dumbass, Riis' management style is the opposite of the iron-man.
And...where do you get "cohesion" from the orange machine? You say it
as if you know what you are talking about and hope for the best. That
seems to sum up you posting style. CSC stands alone in their superior
team culture that gets the most out of the talent of the team as
individuals and a group. There is no other team that even comes close.
Bartoli and Tafi were the only riders that did not have his best
results while riding for CSC. They were way past their prime and I
can't hold CSC responsible for that. That leaves about 95% (or more) of
the team that is having their best results of their careers.

I'd say getting passed by Lance on l'Alpe d'Huez last year spurred him
on. Thinking that if he's ever that high in the GC again he doesn't
want the door slammed shut but a TT.

D

On Tue, 17 May 2005 10:15:56 +0100, "Jan" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

From the Cervelo newsletter.
Jan

Eighteen months of focus paid off yesterday for Ivan Basso, as the
once-mediocre time trialist blasted through the 45km 8th stage of the Giro d
'Italia and left a path of distruction in his wake. On his brand-new P3
Carbon with Wolf TT fork, Basso gained 1min39 on Garzelli, 2min7 on Cunego
and 2min37 on Simoni. Even reknowned time trailer Sergei Gontchar lost 36
seconds to Basso.

But it hasn't been easy for Basso to get where he is today. Prior to riding
for Team CSC, he had never trained on his time trial bike. He didn't have a
TT bike at home, he didn't train on one in the training camps, the only time
he would ride one would be in races. That all changed when he came to Team
CSC. Realizing that without a good time trial a rider cannot win the big
tours, Bjarne Riis put together a training schedule for him that heavily
focused on improving Basso's skills in this area. Now he regularly puts in
100km+ a day on one of the several Cervelo time trial bikes he has at home.
He rode yesterday's Giro stage at least 20 times in training, knew ever
corner and every pothole. He now feels as comfortable on his P3 Carbon as he
does on his R2.5 and Soloist. And for the first time in his career, he now
actually looks forward to the time trials as opportunities to gain time on
his rivals.

"Today's stage was very important, and I was fully aware of what I had to
do. It's fantastic to be able to make a result like this, which is what
Bjarne and I had hoped for. We've been working for a long time with this
time trial, and I believe, I've done the route about 20 times. I've been
training a lot in order to be able to make a difference in this discipline.
Yesterday's time loss was just another motivation factor for me, and I was
very determined to retaliate. I owe Bjarne a special thanks, cause he is
also a big part of this triumph. We still have a lot of tough stages ahead
of us, but today we took a giant leap forward," said Ivan Basso.

The only rider Ivan couldn't beat yesterday was another Team CSC member on a
Cervelo. In this case, it was Dave Zabriskie on a P3 SL, CSC's stock TT
bike. It was the first time trial victory in a major Tour for the young
American, even though the main reason to go fast was not to win the stage,
but to scout out the course for Ivan. But that doesn't mean he didn't have
victory in the back of his mind.

"I'm very happy with my victory. I started early, so it was quite nerve
wrecking to watch the other guys on TV. On the last part of the course we
had headwinds, and I knew that would be to my advantage because of my
position on the bike. I'm a time trial specialist, and this is definitely a
victory I've dreamt about for a long time. I was allowed to take it easy in
yesterday's stage, so I was able to aim for something big today," said
Zabriskie.

All in all, yesterday's results were a big victory for the team and for
Bjarne Riis, who has always focused on time trials, from equipment choices
to rider selection to training schedules.
"It was a fantastic day for us. David showed his huge potential and Ivan did
the time trial of his life. We couldn't expect more than this. Our
preparations have paid off, and Ivan confirmed yesterday's time loss wasn't
due to lack of strength. Our team is here to win the Giro with Ivan, and
today we showed, that we mean business," said Bjarne Riis.

Chris M said:

Dumbass, Riis' management style is the opposite of the iron-man.
And...where do you get "cohesion" from the orange machine? You say it
as if you know what you are talking about and hope for the best. That
seems to sum up you posting style. CSC stands alone in their superior
team culture that gets the most out of the talent of the team as
individuals and a group. There is no other team that even comes close.
Bartoli and Tafi were the only riders that did not have his best
results while riding for CSC. They were way past their prime and I
can't hold CSC responsible for that. That leaves about 95% (or more) of
the team that is having their best results of their careers.

I refer to EE's "cohesion" not in sense of riding as a team (they
certainly don't), but in supporting one another as Basque nationalists
out to prove a point. Now if those anarchists could only get organized,
they could accomplish great things.

And Discovery certainly comes close to CSC's success. How many riders
has Johan plucked from the anonymity of the domestic scene and
transformed into top-level athletes? They have a different reason for
wanting talented people, but they are still comparable.

-Sonarrat.

sonarrat said:

How many riders has Johan plucked from the anonymity of
the domestic scene and transformed into top-level athletes?

Hmmm. Okay, I give up: how many?

sonarrat said:

Chris M said:

Dumbass, Riis' management style is the opposite of the iron-man.
And...where do you get "cohesion" from the orange machine? You say it
as if you know what you are talking about and hope for the best. That
seems to sum up you posting style. CSC stands alone in their superior
team culture that gets the most out of the talent of the team as
individuals and a group. There is no other team that even comes close.
Bartoli and Tafi were the only riders that did not have his best
results while riding for CSC. They were way past their prime and I
can't hold CSC responsible for that. That leaves about 95% (or more) of
the team that is having their best results of their careers.

I refer to EE's "cohesion" not in sense of riding as a team (they
certainly don't), but in supporting one another as Basque nationalists
out to prove a point. Now if those anarchists could only get organized,
they could accomplish great things.

And Discovery certainly comes close to CSC's success. How many riders
has Johan plucked from the anonymity of the domestic scene and
transformed into top-level athletes? They have a different reason for
wanting talented people, but they are still comparable.

-Sonarrat.

I would disagree that Discovery is on level with CSC. No one else comes
close to CSC in terms of giving its riders space to ride, and finding
ways for them to be successful. Riis really is remarkably good at that,
and I don't think it has all that much to do with passing around the
needle. The perfect TT positions of Basso and Zabriski didn't happen by
accident. Nor, does having riders peaked out for races that suit them,
as in the case of Bobby J at Paris-Nice. To me, there's nothing much
remarkable about what Bruyneel is up to at Postal/Discovery. Train a
monkey to drive the car, and Lance would probably still have won the
Tour. Indeed, it seems at times as if the main difference between
T-Mobile, often considered a black hole of talent, and Discovery is that
Discovery scored the best Tour rider of his generation while T-Mobile
ended up with the second best.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 15:17:07 -0700, sonarrat <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

And Discovery certainly comes close to CSC's
success. How many riders
has Johan plucked from the anonymity of the
domestic scene and
transformed into top-level athletes?

I can't think of any. How many do you think there are?

JT

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In article <[email hidden]>, sonarrat <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tyler's defection to Phonak was about money. The one thing Riis cannot
offer is a big paycheck, because he's working with a very small budget
compared with the heavy hitters. Phonak does not have that problem.

-Sonarrat.

You're correct, but I'd add that Phonak also promised to build a Tour
team that was more focused on Hamilton as a sole leader than CSC could
afford to do.

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?