Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

Who is Jesus?

Started by moslim · · Last activity · 39 posts · 1,214 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Cycling Equipment
Published
8 March 2007
Last activity
12 March 2007
Original author
moslim
Posts
39
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,214
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 39
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
    second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
    used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for
    doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to
    consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are
    not drawn out of context:

    1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
    When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
    limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
    knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
    son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
    His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
    admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
    proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
    God.

    2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
    While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
    power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
    "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
    what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can
    of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is
    just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
    which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful,
    He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his
    own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus
    is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

    3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
    God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
    upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
    whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto
    my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John
    20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My
    God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
    then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
    me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's
    prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
    Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
    pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
    26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
    admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
    to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

    4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
    While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
    this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
    any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any
    time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
    4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
    spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
    heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
    clear proof that Jesus was not God.

    5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
    acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
    his own.
    Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
    equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
    of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
    than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
    Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
    one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
    between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from
    God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus
    gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his
    equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine
    be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will
    of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did
    not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do
    so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself,
    and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the
    will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One
    and therefore Jesus is not God.

    Conclusion
    The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
    about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
    not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
    basis have you come to believe otherwise?

    My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
    is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
    presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

    If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
    Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.

    What is the word of God about Jesus:

    A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
    That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
    are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
    Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
    (Qur'an 19:34,35).

    And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
    have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent
    of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall
    down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;
    and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in
    the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant
    (Qur'an 19:88-93).

    Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
    created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
    3:59).

    People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
    not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
    the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
    spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
    'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
    on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in
    the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an
    4:171)

    B. Regarding Jesus being God:
    And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
    and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
    is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
    knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
    within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
    You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
    witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
    me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
    everything. (Quran 5:116,117)

    C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
    And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
    calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
    Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
    crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
    are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they
    have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they
    did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him;
    God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book
    but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the
    Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)

  2. moslim said:

    Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,


    blahblahblah -snip-

    The easter Bunny is more topical and neither rides a bike

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  3. On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:49:11 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    moslim said:

    Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,


    blahblahblah -snip-

    The easter Bunny is more topical and neither rides a bike

    Dear Andrew,

    Repent!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/82116585@N00/169674013/

    Ignore the old-fashioned helmet!

    http://www.terrysvillage.com/tvweb/application?namespace=browse&origin=categoryDisplay.jsp&event=link.externalProductDetails&mode=Browsing&sku=92/442&topLevelCategoryId=122753&parentCategoryId=122753&categoryId=162631

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  4. A Muzi said:
    moslim said:

    Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,


    blahblahblah -snip-

    The easter Bunny is more topical and neither rides a bike

    Well one of them does, at least...

    http://www.redbatpress.com/bunnyonabikeride.htm

  5. "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    moslim said:

    Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,


    blahblahblah -snip-

    The easter Bunny is more topical and neither rides a bike

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    While I don't believe in ANY Gods or Easter bunnies I did find a picture of
    Jesus on a bike. I just knew there had to be some. Any pics of Muhammad on
    a bike? Guess it's not worth getting your head cut off.

    http://www.talyandruss.com/graphics/cds/gr-cov-jc.htm

  6. A Muzi said:
    moslim said:

    Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,

    blahblahblah -snip-

    The easter Bunny is more topical and neither rides a bike

    --
    Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    I worship at the 'Church of Eddy Merckx'..there can be no other.

  7. Quoted message said:


    Repent!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/82116585@N00/169674013/

    Ignore the old-fashioned helmet!

    Never mind the helmet. Are those SPD Sandals?

    Art

  8. Tim McTeague said:

    "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    moslim said:

    Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,

    blahblahblah -snip-

    The easter Bunny is more topical and neither rides a bike

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    While I don't believe in ANY Gods or Easter bunnies I did find a picture of
    Jesus on a bike. I just knew there had to be some. Any pics of Muhammad on
    a bike? Guess it's not worth getting your head cut off.

    http://www.talyandruss.com/graphics/cds/gr-cov-jc.htm

    He appears to be riding a single-speed. I'd guess a coaster brake, but
    that cable coming off the handlebars must be doing something. The
    coaster-brake brotherhood and the three-speed sect may now begin their
    religious arguments. The crank is totally obscured, or we could see if
    it's one-piece, square-taper, or octalink/isis, and thereby provide
    material on RBT for an extended religious war. Let's not ask if He
    greases his tapers.

    Mark J.

  9. On Mar 7, 11:34 pm, "moslim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    <snipped>

    - on The Supreme Being -

    Quoted message said:


    God is All Knowing

    Quoted message said:


    God is All Powerful

    Quoted message said:

    God does not have a God

    Quoted message said:

    No one is greater than God

    And he posts to RBT from stanfordalumni.org! ;-)

  10. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    moslim said:

    Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,


    blahblahblah -snip-

    Quoted message said:
    A Muzi said:

    The easter Bunny is more topical and neither rides a bike

    Quoted message said:

    Repent!
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/82116585@N00/169674013/
    Ignore the old-fashioned helmet!
    http://www.terrysvillage.com/tvweb/application?namespace=browse&origin=categoryDisplay.jsp&event=link.externalProductDetails&mode=Browsing&sku=92/442&topLevelCategoryId=122753&parentCategoryId=122753&categoryId=162631

    Cute. Now, since we're feeling ecumenical, let's see muhammad in a silly
    costume.

    Or, as Orwell noted, some are more equal than others.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  11. "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or Easter
    bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it possible they
    were the same person. That might explain how Einstein was able to think of
    things that others did not.

  12. Leo Lichtman said:

    "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or
    Easter bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.

    Quoted message said:

    I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it
    possible they were the same person. That might explain how Einstein
    was able to think of things that others did not.

    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    Jobst Brandt

  13. Quoted message said:
    Leo Lichtman said:

    "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or
    Easter bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.

    Quoted message said:

    I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it
    possible they were the same person. That might explain how Einstein
    was able to think of things that others did not.

    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    Of course they would have rejected his writings, and with good cause, as
    would have any print Encyclopaedia of the time. Wikipedia is not the
    place for cutting-edge research, however brilliant.

  14. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or
    Easter bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.

    Quoted message said:
    Leo Lichtman said:

    I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it
    possible they were the same person. That might explain how Einstein
    was able to think of things that others did not.

    Quoted message said:

    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    I wondered about that.
    In the famous photo he doesn't appear graceful or comfortable on the bike.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  15. Quoted message said:
    Leo Lichtman said:

    "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or
    Easter bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.

    Quoted message said:

    I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it
    possible they were the same person. That might explain how Einstein
    was able to think of things that others did not.

    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    Jobst Brandt

    Dear Jobst,

    A) An encyclopedia is a reference source, meaning its articles refer
    to other sources.

    Wiki is not a research journal for publishing original research.

    If you want to publish research, send it to an editor at an
    appropriate journal, just as Einstein did--Einstein would never have
    submitted his original research to the Encyclopedia Britannica.

    B) Are you aware how strange it is to tack your quarrel with Wikipedia
    onto this thread?

    No one on RBT can understand your non-sequitur unless they wade
    through this editorial fuss, which is about your interest in car
    brakes, not bicycles:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jobstbrandt

    C) Are you actually comparing yourself to Einstein, you modest devil?

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  16. Quoted message said:
    Leo Lichtman said:

    "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or
    Easter bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.
    I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it
    possible they were the same person. That might explain how Einstein
    was able to think of things that others did not.

    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    Jobst Brandt

    BAHAHAHA LOL Good one!!!

  17. On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:59:44 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or
    Easter bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.

    Quoted message said:
    Leo Lichtman said:

    I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it
    possible they were the same person. That might explain how Einstein
    was able to think of things that others did not.

    Quoted message said:

    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    I wondered about that.
    In the famous photo he doesn't appear graceful or comfortable on the bike.

    Dear Andrew,

    Hmmm . . . Here's the picture:

    http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/teachers/blackholes/imagine/einstein.jpg

    Hundreds of copies can be found on Google Images.

    Try to look at it without any preconceptions.

    A smiling man with white hair is riding a commuter-style bicycle in
    what looks like a courtyard and turning to avoid the camera.

    How would anyone look more graceful or comfortable? He's probably
    turning at low speed and posing for the camera.

    The picture was taken "at the home of Ben Meyer in Santa Barbara,
    California, on February 18, 1933."

    http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/sitecredits.php

    At the time, Einstein was just short of 54. I don't know how often or
    how well he rode a bicycle, but the picture itself shows only a fellow
    well past the age at which most people learn to ride, obviously riding
    a bicycle well enough to smile for a camera.

    As a sidelight on how tricky biography can be, Wiki includes this
    well-documented and interesting detail:

    "The recurring rumor that Einstein failed in mathematics during his
    education is untrue. On the contrary, Einstein always showed great
    talent at mathematics; when he obtained his matura, he got the best
    mark (6/6) in algebra, geometry, physics and history, among all of the
    classes that he took.[61] The grading system of Switzerland, where 6
    is the best mark, may have been confused with the German system, in
    which 1 is the best mark."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein#Speculation_and_controversy

    Einstein's report card! Anyone who does poorly in French should keep a
    copy handy.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel


  18. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    Of course they would have rejected his writings, and with good cause, as
    would have any print Encyclopaedia of the time. Wikipedia is not the
    place for cutting-edge research, however brilliant.

    No matter what you think of Wikipedia, you should compare it to
    Conservapedia. They don't believe in gravity because "no one has seen it."

  19. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > "Tim McTeague" wrote: (clip) While I don't believe in ANY Gods or
    > Easter bunnies I did find a picture of Jesus on a bike.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Leo Lichtman writes:
    > I have a similar picture of Albert Einstein on a bike. Is it
    > possible they were the same person. That might explain how Einstein
    > was able to think of things that others did not.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Just the same Wikipedia would have rejected his writings because he
    could cite no sources, and beyond that, he didn't do the research for
    e=mc^2, it was obvious to him, just as riding a bicycle, something he
    rarely did.

    Quoted message said:
    A Muzi said:

    I wondered about that.
    In the famous photo he doesn't appear graceful or comfortable on the bike.

    Quoted message said:

    Hmmm . . . Here's the picture:
    http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/teachers/blackholes/imagine/einstein.jpg
    Hundreds of copies can be found on Google Images.
    Try to look at it without any preconceptions.
    A smiling man with white hair is riding a commuter-style bicycle in
    what looks like a courtyard and turning to avoid the camera.
    How would anyone look more graceful or comfortable? He's probably
    turning at low speed and posing for the camera.
    The picture was taken "at the home of Ben Meyer in Santa Barbara,
    California, on February 18, 1933."
    http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/sitecredits.php


    -snip extraneous-

    Carl, I'm very familiar. A tenant hung that picture in my living room
    for 4 years. I thought he looked odd on the bike when I first saw it and
    I still think he looks odd on the bike. YMMV.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  20. Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:59:44 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I wondered about that.
    In the famous photo he doesn't appear graceful or comfortable on the bike.

    Dear Andrew,

    Hmmm . . . Here's the picture:

    http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/teachers/blackholes/imagine/einstei...

    Hundreds of copies can be found on Google Images.

    Try to look at it without any preconceptions.

    A smiling man with white hair is riding a commuter-style bicycle in
    what looks like a courtyard and turning to avoid the camera.

    How would anyone look more graceful or comfortable? He's probably
    turning at low speed and posing for the camera.

    Dear Carl,

    Your comments indicate that you are not familiar with proper fit of
    bike to rider. Proper fit is extremely important for speed, good
    handling, and pain- and injury-free cycling. If you get a
    professional fitting you will be more comfortable on your own bike and
    probably ride a lot more.

    You can get fit in any quality bike shop. You can find a list of bike
    shops in your area using Google; I put bicycle pueblo and got results
    including Bob's Bicycles and Vance's Bicycle World. Better yet, drive
    yourself and your bike to Vecchio's and have Peter set up your bike to
    fit you better. You will be -much- more comfortable on your bike than
    you previously thought was possible.

    Here are some useful links on the subject:

    http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
    http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/sport/a/bikefit.htm
    http://www.smartcycles.com/fitting_explained.htm

    By the way, you mention that there are hundreds of copies of the photo
    in question on Google Images. But, what you might not realize is,
    there are -also- hundres of copies on Yahoo! Images.

    Hope this helps,
    Doug

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.