When cyclists squat...

As for not going deep enough for partial squats and ending up going shallower and shallower as the weight goes up. Why not do bench squats? Put a bench under where your buddocks would touch when you squat. Don't sit on the bench though, doing so will rest you and relieve the tension on your legs. Also, sitting down can cause your lower back to relax and may lead to injury. Just touch and go right back up.

If you don't want to do this, have a friend tell you if you are going too shallow. Or do squats in front of a mirror if possible. Or use a video camera if doing them by yourself.

By the way, I could do more than 400 lbs when I started doing bench squats. But my back hurt for a week. Going slowly and progressing from a lighter weight will allow your back and other supportive muscles to grow stronger instead of growing more and more injured and torn.

Once the angle between the calf and the rear of the thigh becomes too acute the hamstrings and calves ( which have been contributing to bearing the load ) have a greatly diminished contribution at the knee. The quads have to make up the difference, This changes the stress characteristics being placed upon the knees.

Deep squats should not be done with the same load as partial squats.

Deep squats are still better then leg extensions - these should only be done under recommendations from a physio ( to rectify strength imbalance)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by beerco
I know I shouldn't stick my nose in but I will anyway - For a trackie, I think the angle of the squat is less relevant than the degree of hypertrophy you can achieve. Because cycling is different than squatting, the neuromuscular adaptation to the squat will not transfer to on the bike power where the hypertrophy will. Do whichever angle is most comfortable and do stest which get you the biggest muscles!

Building a big muscle ( at some stage) is going to be detrimental to your cycling performance. Unless you compete in a event that is all over in under five minutes.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
Building a big muscle ( at some stage) is going to be detrimental to your cycling performance. Unless you compete in a event that is all over in under five minutes.

Hence the phrase: "for a trackie" in my original post.

Ass to calves is the way i do it.

I've been an avid weightlifter/bodybuilder for the past 15 years, and only found cycling this past year as a solution to my quest for cardio without boredom.

Regarding squats, it is better to do a full squat with less weight than a partial squat with greater weight, unless you want lopsided development of your physique and strength. Squatting lower than parallel is not necessary, and those extra few degrees put tremendous tension on the quads' insertion tendon (which is stretched over the knee joint) with little benefit. It's just not necessary, and I've witnessed one person tearing the tendons in both knees from this(!).

What I recommend is the following:

Pre-exhaust your quads and glutes on a plate-loaded, seated leg press. I perform 5 sets of around 12 reps each, using increasing weight (stepping from 450lb up to 900lb) and good form. The leg press does a good job of pre-exhausting the strongest part of the quad.

Next, go to the Smith rack and perform your squats. I perform 3 supersets of 12X12 reps (back to back) alternating wide stance and close stance, using only moderate weight (increasing from 135-225lb) and performing the full movement. Since you're already pre-exhausted, you don't have to test your back using heavy weight. You will find that with your strongest part of the movement (toward the top) pre-exhausted, your strength through the movement will be fairly even. It will be difficult to walk immediately afterward if you do it properly.

Finally, finish with three sets of leg extensions, using moderate (but increasing) weight and good form/concentration.

This type of regimen works well because it will evenly distribute your quad/glute power, and is very easy on the knees and back. I always get inquiries/complements about my leg strength and physique, so I can attest that after years of experimentation, this really works, and best of all, it is SAFE.

.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ted B
I've been an avid weightlifter/bodybuilder for the past 15 years, and only found cycling this past year as a solution to my quest for cardio without boredom.

If you are a sprint cyclist, do free squats, don't use a smith machine !
Don't do leg extensions ! it puts too much stress on your knees !

Don't forget your glute, hamstring, calf.... don't just focus on your quads !

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by taras0000
Ass to calves is the way i do it.

Why ?

Do you have a reason or does it just smell right ?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
If you are a sprint cyclist, do free squats, don't use a smith machine !
Don't do leg extensions ! it puts too much stress on your knees !

Don't forget your glute, hamstring, calf.... don't just focus on your quads !

FWIW, I've never experienced any knee distress from the aforementioned exercises, and the Smith rack is much easier on my back than free squats...just my experiences over 15 years of steady training.

Likewise, it would be foolhardy for one to neglect hams and calves. My glutes get plenty of work from the deep Smith squats and heavy leg press, as evidenced by my rock-hard derriere.

After working quads, I go off immediately to more punishment...

For hams, I perform 3X12 of seated leg curls, escalating in weight to exhaustion.

For calves, I do 3X12 seated calf raises, followed by 3X12 standing, all using escalating weight to exhaustion, and no bouncing please.

It makes for a tough day at the gym, but it definitely works!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ted B
It makes for a tough day at the gym, but it definitely works!

Works for what ? Bigger muscles ? Or better sprint cyclist ?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
Works for what ? Bigger muscles ? Or better sprint cyclist ?

It works where substantial increases in leg strength are desired.

lol, for a minute, I thought this was for when cyclists gotta go [censored]...not when they actually do muscular squats...😄.

Thomas Davis

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tomdavis80
lol, for a minute, I thought this was for when cyclists gotta go [censored]...not when they actually do muscular squats...😄.

Thomas Davis

With strong legs you do this for hours !

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ted B
FWIW, I've never experienced any knee distress from the aforementioned exercises, and the Smith rack is much easier on my back than free squats...just my experiences over 15 years of steady training.

But is doesn't train the core strength the same way as free squats do.
For a sprint cyclist's explosive power max strength training is also needed.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
But is doesn't train the core strength the same way as free squats do.
For a sprint cyclist's explosive power max strength training is also needed.

I agree, smith rack is good for one legged squats. smith rack tyoe squats work the glutes more as well. must say tho, you really lose out on back strenght and stability doing them this way

taras0000 said:

I agree, smith rack is good for one legged squats. smith rack tyoe squats work the glutes more as well. must say tho, you really lose out on back strenght and stability doing them this way

Smith Machine squat = bad

Unnatural ROM and very hard on knees.

I squatted deep down for many years. I still go all the way down and noticed that this is the way squats are done in Russia as well, except the Russians use a very wide leg stance.
Based on my experiences with squats over the years one piece of advice I can give you is make sure you warm up thoroughly (with an empty bar) and don't be tempted to go too heavy when you think you can get away with it at youth. Believe me it catches up when you get to 40.
There's no reason why squats can't be done light for very high reps. These days I feel fine with just 220 pounds for loads of reps.
Squatting can damage some peoples' knees while others have no problem at all. However, you should never bounce on a rep or use momentum as this can wreck your knees totally.
Your main problem will be how to simultaneously recover from squats and cycling if you plan to do them jointly. Also you need to bear in mind that some folks may gain too much muscular weight squatting so a balance is needed. I find I can't squat heavy when I do a lot of cycling so I just reduce my weight for safety.

Head over to DrSquat.com its run by Dr. Fred Hatfield who held the world record in squats from many years. He's has a lot of free brochure type downloads for you to read about training. He's written a basket full of books about weight training and the proper (and he stresses proper) way to do exercises. There are some diagrams too. He also sells a line of vitamins.

[quote="supersaiyan"]As for not going deep enough for partial squats and ending up going shallower and shallower as the weight goes up. Why not do bench squats? Put a bench under where your buddocks would touch when you squat. Don't sit on the bench though, doing so will rest you and relieve the tension on your legs. Also, sitting down can cause your lower back to relax and may lead to injury. Just touch and go right back up.[QUOTE]

This would work if you are over 6 ft. Most benches are tall for someone to get a good parallel depth. Best thing to do is to build a box or stack some plates to get you to the right depth. Box squats, which is essentially what you are doing, are great for getting the right depth. Powerlifters, particularly West Side lifters, use this technique to increase their squats and deadlifts.