wheel building nipple locktite

I find the sapim SILS self-locking brass nipples to be quite nice.
Not that I have had issues with spoke loosening (which is either a
sign of a lotta abuse or a poorly built wheel, IMO) before I used
them. Actually got them because I was building a set of radial spoked
(F and NDSR) wheels...

Plus no screwing around with applying stuff to the threads....

All for just a buck or so more per wheel....

BTW, the radially spoked wheels have had about 6,000 miles on them so
far and remain true, solid and dependable. They are 36 spoke, 14/17
front and NDSR, 14/15 DSR. OP rims. Chorus hubs. Just over 1700
gms. Perfect for my weight and the climbing around here, stiff cuz of
the 36 spokes but light with less rotating weight at the rim.
Lighter, in fact, than a 32 spoke set built with the same components
except all 14/15 spokes (14/15 is ~2 gms more per spoke). Since I
usually average 16 - 18 mph on a ride, and do a lot of hills, the
aerodynamics of greater number of spokes really isn't much of an issue
(nor is the box-ish section of the OP rim). The radial thing was a
matter of personal taste which has so far not proven to be an issue.

D'ohBoy

Quoted post said:

Reading joe young on wheel building athttp://www.youngwheels.com/opinion.html
And thru his price list, I tripped over an aaahhhhaaaha!http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=17558&cat=382&page=1
DT spoke freeze, a compound I tried to find for errrrk 7-8 years only
to be told they went out of business. Thanks and a pint. The
misinformation available here is incrudabale and incurable.
Used SF/loctite on an aftermarket Belgian 27" rim when I had less
than zero wheel building skills and the Belgian stayed true for 2-3000
miles HD touring until a wind gust threw the rear wheel into a sharp/
deep pothole.
'Builders' continuously ask: what locktite?
And this is it. Just superb stuff. Use it on hub ball/cone
adjustments, nipples once on top of a true result. Excellent. Highly
recommended. use it cold.

20ml for only $40.00 (but the bottle pictured is only 10ml) ! What a
marvelous age we live in!! My years of suffering using linseed oil are
finally at an end!

Next thing ya know, they'll be launching humans into orbit....

I can probably find what grade of Loctite is sold as DT spoke freeze.

It's probably their 222 Threadlocker Low Strength/Small Screw grade which
comes in 10 ml ( ~$13USD) and 50ml bottles (~$37USD).

The Loctite anaerobic threadlocker products have about a 2-3 year shelf
life so buy a small bottle unless you plan on using a lot of the stuff. It
still works for a few years after the expiration date but....

Chas.

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

20ml for only $40.00 (but the bottle pictured is only 10ml) ! What a
marvelous age we live in!! My years of suffering using linseed oil are
finally at an end!

Next thing ya know, they'll be launching humans into orbit....

LOCKTITE

The tube used here was 3-4ml, cost more than regular red. The compound
probably stays fluid and useable unless you live directly above the
san andreas: storing in the fridge helps? Itsa $30-40 tool.
Rather than suffering thread seizure, that cycle loctite had a waxy
lubricated feel turning feel as the nuts, nipples, cones were snugged.
The stuff didn't move toward an immediate set.
Small nipple adjustments were possible without compromising the set
strength.
For example, fiddling with seat cluster : http://www.jitensha.com/eng/nuallrndebisu_e.html
is less annoying with the slow set red and off course ball/cones where
an extended life is probable.
I use linseed on nipples. Does the job. No corrosion holds maybe 2-3
lbs. The roads I ride are very smooth: no frost and fluid sand soil
giving in waves under triax loads not fracturing.
Banging down broken asphalt could bring a builder to use the red cycle
lock for longevity not cure the problems associated with for example
"stress relief." A new build for a cross country tour using top
quality components would indicate using a stronger compound than
linseed oil.
What is the cycle lock? Prevail/torque?? What's it made of? Normal
lock sets from contact with ferrous ions. There are no indigenous
ferrous ions in an aluminum, brass, stainless steel mechanism. The
cycle lock set how then? Carries its own Fe? An additional use for
cycle lock!
I didn't wipe the nipples out or dip or fingernail/rag clean the spoke
threads of manufacturers oils. The 'carries its own Fe ions'
speculation may allow light nipple/spoke thread lubrication for
trueing with red lock added after the wheel goes to true: loosening
one nipple, adding lock, retightening back to spec not loading the
spokes when inserting. I dunno: I forgot the successful "procedure" I
used. Guild response?
Exceptin' we don't know the prevail/break spec.

Quoted message said:

Reading joe young on wheel building at
http://www.youngwheels.com/opinion.html
And thru his price list, I tripped over an aaahhhhaaaha!
http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=17558&cat=382&page=1
DT spoke freeze, a compound I tried to find for errrrk 7-8 years only
to be told they went out of business. Thanks and a pint. The
misinformation available here is incrudabale and incurable.
Used SF/loctite on an aftermarket Belgian 27" rim when I had less
than zero wheel building skills and the Belgian stayed true for 2-3000
miles HD touring until a wind gust threw the rear wheel into a sharp/
deep pothole.
'Builders' continuously ask: what locktite?
And this is it. Just superb stuff. Use it on hub ball/cone
adjustments, nipples once on top of a true result. Excellent. Highly
recommended. use it cold.

I just use linseed oil. Lubricates when fresh, then hardens into a gum
that prevents loosening. Dirt cheap, too.

--

John ([email hidden])

Quoted message said:

Reading joe young on wheel building at
http://www.youngwheels.com/opinion.html
And thru his price list, I tripped over an aaahhhhaaaha!
http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=17558&cat=382&page=1
DT spoke freeze, a compound I tried to find for errrrk 7-8 years only
to be told they went out of business. Thanks and a pint. The
misinformation available here is incrudabale and incurable.
Used SF/loctite on an aftermarket Belgian 27" rim when I had less
than zero wheel building skills and the Belgian stayed true for 2-3000
miles HD touring until a wind gust threw the rear wheel into a sharp/
deep pothole.
'Builders' continuously ask: what locktite?
And this is it. Just superb stuff. Use it on hub ball/cone
adjustments, nipples once on top of a true result. Excellent. Highly
recommended. use it cold.

only you could get away with a post like this - good on you!

regarding cone adjustments, that's a /very/ good idea right side. i
recently had a cone loosen and tighten on me - from now on, /all/ my
right side cones are being loctited. thanks for bringing it up!

John Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Reading joe young on wheel building at

http://www.youngwheels.com/opinion.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And thru his price list, I tripped over an aaahhhhaaaha!

http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=17558&cat=382&page=1

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DT spoke freeze, a compound I tried to find for errrrk 7-8 years
only to be told they went out of business. Thanks and a pint. The
misinformation available here is incrudabale and incurable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Used SF/Loctite on an aftermarket Belgian 27" rim when I had less
than zero wheel building skills and the Belgian stayed true for
2-3000 miles HD touring until a wind gust threw the rear wheel into
a sharp/ deep pothole.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'Builders' continuously ask: what locktite?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And this is it. Just superb stuff. Use it on hub ball/cone
adjustments, nipples once on top of a true
result. Excellent. Highly recommended. use it cold.

Quoted message said:

I just use linseed oil. Lubricates when fresh, then hardens into a
gum that prevents loosening. Dirt cheap, too.

And I've just been throwing salt over my shoulder and never true a
wheel unless it gets hit from the side or breaks one of its 300,000+
mile spokes from a chain-into-the-spokes kink.

I'm giving up on those though because they are on Campagnolo Record FW
hubs from 30+ years ago (the ones with the straight QR levers) and
designed for a four speed FW. That's why they break axles, which
ultimately breaks right rear dropouts. So I've gone to a Shimano
7-speed hub (127mm spacing) so I don't need to possibly look up a
frame repair shop somewhere in the Alps. Times change!

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

John Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Reading joe young on wheel building at

http://www.youngwheels.com/opinion.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And thru his price list, I tripped over an aaahhhhaaaha!

http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=17558&cat=382&page=1

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DT spoke freeze, a compound I tried to find for errrrk 7-8 years
only to be told they went out of business. Thanks and a pint. The
misinformation available here is incrudabale and incurable.
Used SF/Loctite on an aftermarket Belgian 27" rim when I had less
than zero wheel building skills and the Belgian stayed true for
2-3000 miles HD touring until a wind gust threw the rear wheel into
a sharp/ deep pothole.
'Builders' continuously ask: what locktite?
And this is it. Just superb stuff. Use it on hub ball/cone
adjustments, nipples once on top of a true
result. Excellent. Highly recommended. use it cold.

I just use linseed oil. Lubricates when fresh, then hardens into a
gum that prevents loosening. Dirt cheap, too.

And I've just been throwing salt over my shoulder and never true a
wheel unless it gets hit from the side or breaks one of its 300,000+
mile spokes from a chain-into-the-spokes kink.

Are you a close relative of Baron Munchhausen?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2y5f4h

Just curious...TIA.

neils bohr and dennis weaver

i thought i could learn something from yawl while promulgulating
information

Quoted message said:

only you could get away with a post like this - good on you!

regarding cone adjustments, that's a /very/ good idea right side. i
recently had a cone loosen and tighten on me - from now on, /all/ my
right side cones are being loctited. thanks for bringing it up!- Hide quoted text -

maybe the cones are ellipsoidal? pedals do that, do it twice? chuckem!

Quoted message said:

i thought i could learn something from yawl while promulgulating
information

Quoted message said:

only you could get away with a post like this - good on you!

regarding cone adjustments, that's a /very/ good idea right side. i
recently had a cone loosen and tighten on me - from now on, /all/ my
right side cones are being loctited. thanks for bringing it up!- Hide quoted text -

maybe the cones are ellipsoidal? pedals do that, do it twice? chuckem!

I silver-soldered a cone to the axle once; needed the extra clearance from
not having a locknut. It was a one-off; a front disk-brake conversion back
in the 70's.

(Adjustment via the other side...)

_ said:

Quoted message said:

i thought i could learn something from yawl while promulgulating
information

Quoted message said:

only you could get away with a post like this - good on you!

regarding cone adjustments, that's a /very/ good idea right side. i
recently had a cone loosen and tighten on me - from now on, /all/ my
right side cones are being loctited. thanks for bringing it up!- Hide quoted text -

maybe the cones are ellipsoidal? pedals do that, do it twice? chuckem!

I silver-soldered a cone to the axle once; needed the extra clearance from
not having a locknut. It was a one-off; a front disk-brake conversion back
in the 70's.

(Adjustment via the other side...)

did the heat not take the temper out of the cone? can't imagine it
lasted very long after that.

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

I silver-soldered a cone to the axle once; needed the extra clearance from
not having a locknut. It was a one-off; a front disk-brake conversion back
in the 70's.

(Adjustment via the other side...)

did the heat not take the temper out of the cone? can't imagine it
lasted very long after that.

Silver solder melts at temps far below the level needed to affect the
heat treatment of steel. (Not that I'm planning on this option anytime
soon.)

still me said:

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

I silver-soldered a cone to the axle once; needed the extra clearance from
not having a locknut. It was a one-off; a front disk-brake conversion back
in the 70's.

(Adjustment via the other side...)

did the heat not take the temper out of the cone? can't imagine it
lasted very long after that.

Silver solder melts at temps far below the level needed to affect the
heat treatment of steel. (Not that I'm planning on this option anytime
soon.)

what temperature do you think that is? martensitic hardness starts to
drop at temps as low as 250C.

and what type of "silver solder" - electrical or brazing? if the
former, you might be able to get away with it, but definitely not the
latter.

Chaps,

Jobst Brandt is the great wheel god who has written THE book about the
bicycle wheel, called "The Bicycle Wheel".

This glue stuff is all BS. If you build the wheel perfectly you will
need no glue.
As for a 36 hole wheel being stiffer than 32. More BS. Stronger yes,
stiffer no.

so who builds a perfect wheel?
sapim offers nylocks, dt offers a factory installed dry locktite, and
a locktite compound-lotta imperfect wheels built.
how do you build a perfect wheel from a used battered rim?
or a new battered MO rim.
the 36H whatever language qualifications, impirackally needs less
adjustment over miles than a 32h.

I thought the progression for dropout spacing was 120, 126, 130 and 135 for
mtn. bikes. What is 127?

I know I am splitting hairs since the build tolerances are probably not that
good anyway, but what is the official spacing 126 or 127?

cel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm giving up on those though because they are on Campagnolo Record FW
hubs from 30+ years ago (the ones with the straight QR levers) and
designed for a four speed FW. That's why they break axles, which
ultimately breaks right rear dropouts. So I've gone to a Shimano
7-speed hub (127mm spacing) so I don't need to possibly look up a
frame repair shop somewhere in the Alps. Times change!

Jobst Brandt

Yes that is true for reasonable wheels built with 36 and 32 spokes without
the insane rear offset of modern bikes. You will have a tough time getting
high enough tension on a 28 spoke rear 10 speed campy wheel on the non drive
side.

It depends on the riders weight, riding style and road conditions.

cel

"Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chaps,

Jobst Brandt is the great wheel god who has written THE book about the
bicycle wheel, called "The Bicycle Wheel".

This glue stuff is all BS. If you build the wheel perfectly you will
need no glue.
As for a 36 hole wheel being stiffer than 32. More BS. Stronger yes,
stiffer no.

Garry Lee said:

Chaps,

Jobst Brandt is the great wheel god who has written THE book about the
bicycle wheel, called "The Bicycle Wheel".

This glue stuff is all BS. If you build the wheel perfectly you will
need no glue.

Yes, although "perfectly" may include choosing an MA-2 rim in the first
place on which you can use plenty of spoke tension.