What is your ideal FTP program?

yzfrr11 said:

Suppose that your only concern is FTP. No races in sight. You are not considering any other abilities.

Outline what you think would be your ultimate FTP program. This is what I have been doing over the winter (since 11/1/05), and I have made a substantial gain:

M 3h L2

T 3h L2

W 3h L2

Th 2x20 L4 / 5x5 L5 (alternate each week)

F 3h L2

S 3h group ride (I sit in until the opportunity arises then 60min at L4. This effort is usually a solo or group of 2 or three. I sometimes attack with a 5 min L5 effort. Some times I end up pulling a progressively dwindling group to the sprint zone)

Su 3h L2/3

M: Off or 1-hr l1
T: 3 hrs w/2x20 (@ft) +5-6x5 (3 ri) in l5
W: 2-2.5 hrs l3/4 on mtb trails. Usually did at least 30 minutes high l4.
Th: 3 hrs w/4x20 at just under FT.
F: 1 hr in l2
S: 2-3 hrs with l3/l4.
Su: 4-5 hr "smackdown" ride, l3ish with plenty of mock-racing.

BTW, I'm interested in how your #'s have improved, if you don't mind sharing.

Obviously doing as much threshold work as your body is capable of doing with enough recovery days to increase your FT.

I vary my training load or TSS week by week.

First week. Traget TSS is 900+ I have done 1200TSS in a week but I had to cut back my second week training load in order to recover. 😄

I make my first week an 8 or 9 days week. Max threshold work is 4 days. Added an hour upper L4 threshold work in 2x30 or 3x20. 2 days of rest days. The rest of the days I just commute to work at upper l2 and lower l3.

Second week is pretty much the same as the first but do no more than 3 days of threshold work. May add an hour of lower L4 threshold work. Some 2x20 on the trainer. Traget TSS is 600 to 700. 2 rest days. I use my commute as my active recovery.

Third week I do no more than 2 threshold work days. Target TSS is 500 or less.

There is always an exception like this week I did 4 days of threshold work and an hour each. Why? It has been cold and snowing in NYC. But my TSS for this week is only 400 and so I am not even tired at all.

During the racing season of course I will substitute one of the threshold work day with a race or cutting back on threshold work and to focus on Vo2max power training.

yzfrr11 said:

Suppose that your only concern is FTP. No races in sight. You are not considering any other abilities.

Outline what you think would be your ultimate FTP program. This is what I have been doing over the winter (since 11/1/05), and I have made a substantial gain:

M 3h L2

T 3h L2

W 3h L2

Th 2x20 L4 / 5x5 L5 (alternate each week)

F 3h L2

S 3h group ride (I sit in until the opportunity arises then 60min at L4. This effort is usually a solo or group of 2 or three. I sometimes attack with a 5 min L5 effort. Some times I end up pulling a progressively dwindling group to the sprint zone)

Su 3h L2/3

yzfrr11 said:

Suppose that your only concern is FTP. No races in sight. You are not considering any other abilities.

Outline what you think would be your ultimate FTP program. This is what I have been doing over the winter (since 11/1/05), and I have made a substantial gain:

M 3h L2

T 3h L2

W 3h L2

Th 2x20 L4 / 5x5 L5 (alternate each week)

F 3h L2

S 3h group ride (I sit in until the opportunity arises then 60min at L4. This effort is usually a solo or group of 2 or three. I sometimes attack with a 5 min L5 effort. Some times I end up pulling a progressively dwindling group to the sprint zone)

Su 3h L2/3

If you *only* concern is 1-hour power, then what's with all the 3-hour rides?

Unless I were trying to break the 1-hour record, I personally can't imagine having FTP as my only training goal.

frenchyge said:

If you *only* concern is 1-hour power, then what's with all the 3-hour rides?

That confused me as well, especially since they are all pretty easy. Absence of recovery days is interesting too.

frenchyge said:

If you *only* concern is 1-hour power, then what's with all the 3-hour rides?

Obviously, there are many valuable cellular level adaptations that occur in response to L2.

yzfrr11 said:

Obviously, there are many valuable cellular level adaptations that occur in response to L2.

But why short (but frequent)? Why no rest days?

whoawhoa said:

BTW, I'm interested in how your #'s have improved, if you don't mind sharing.

I started out in June with FT around 270. No real training prior to that. Just some group rides and riding without any objective.

Sunday I pushed average (not norm) 325 for 60min.

whoawhoa said:

But why short (but frequent)

Fits into my schedule

whoawhoa said:

Why no rest days?

I like to ride. And I don't feel burned.

I could probably do better by adding one more L4 session of some kind (maybe 4x15) and doing an L1 ride. But hey, it's fun, it fits my schedule. I am thinking that I'll ride this wave for a few more weeks - then maybe add one more L4 session. I don't really want a day off. I don't really race, maybe only once or twice a year if my buddies twist my arm. I love to train though. Know what I mean?

yzfrr11 said:

Obviously, there are many valuable cellular level adaptations that occur in response to L2.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood the workout you posted to be your ideal routine for an FTP-only goal.

frenchyge said:

Ok, I guess I misunderstood the workout you posted to be your ideal routine for an FTP-only goal.

I am interested in hearing opinions regarding the ideal FTP-focused program. Obviously I don't know what mine is, but within my constraints, I've been doing the above. I agree that it can be tweaked for sure.

yzfrr11 said:

I am interested in hearing opinions regarding the ideal FTP-focused program. Obviously I don't know what mine is, but within my constraints, I've been doing the above. I agree that it can be tweaked for sure.

Well, as you pointed out, rider-specific factors affect the ideal case significantly - schedule, recovery rates, genetics, etc.

If I were trying to blast my way to a 1-hr peak, I'd probably do exclusively 3-5 and 15-30 minute intervals. Workout routine would be "L5-L4-rest" for as long as I could stand it, then a taper before the test.

frenchyge said:

Well, as you pointed out, rider-specific factors affect the ideal case significantly - schedule, recovery rates, genetics, etc.

If I were trying to blast my way to a 1-hr peak, I'd probably do exclusively 3-5 and 15-30 minute intervals. Workout routine would be "L5-L4-rest" for as long as I could stand it, then a taper before the test.

I understand. So you don't see any benefit to L2/3 at all?

yzfrr11 said:

I am interested in hearing opinions regarding the ideal FTP-focused program.

If we're talking short term (important TT in a month, trying to peak, etc) I would do pretty much exactly as frenchgye said. If we're talking long term, I would do lots of l3/l4 with maybe 1 workout per week high l4, plus the additional l1/l2 that comes naturally. Interspersed would be 10-14 day v02max focus periods (schedule would be l5/l5/l3/rest/repeat) to raise the ceiling. Then, a month or so from the goal event, I would gradually move towards more high l4 and l5 work, similar to what frenchgye suggested.

yzfrr11 said:

I understand. So you don't see any benefit to L2/3 at all?

Not in preparation for a 1-hr max effort event, which was the goal for this hypothetical training plan. I can do 2 hrs within the lower bounds of L4.

A good training plan should be specific to the constraints of the rider, and the demands of the target event. It'll also change as the target event grows closer, so it's tough to give a snapshot without knowing how long we have to train before the event.

frenchyge said:

Not in preparation for a 1-hr max effort event, which was the goal for this hypothetical training plan. I can do 2 hrs within the lower bounds of L4.

Sure there are benefits for L3 and L2, and he has the time needed to take advantage of that training. Look at riders who are really good at one hour efforts. Do they do only L4 during winter and spring?

He should be doing more L3 and low L4 than just twice per week. Could do at least some L3 almost every day and still recover.

WarrenG said:

Look at riders who are really good at one hour efforts. Do they do only L4 during winter and spring?

Is FTP their only concern, with no races in sight, as the OP specified in his question?

frenchyge said:

Is FTP their only concern, with no races in sight, as the OP specified in his question?

They do variety. They are very good at the same thing the OP is aiming at. Vary the stimulii.

WarrenG said:

They do variety. They are very good at the same thing the OP is aiming at. Vary the stimulii.

Ok. I was answering the OP's question rather than trying to prescribe a training program for him. As I said in a previous post, a good training program should be tailored to the individual rider and the demands of his target events - neither of which has been given in this case.

what are people thoughts in the merits of "2 x 1x20" versus "1 x 2x20"...thinking in terms of doing a 20 min TT effort in the morning, then another in the evening, rather than trying both in the same turbo session.