what is the difference between cranksets/chainrings

Quoth Dennis Vaughn:

Quoted message said:

I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd cassette. I know that I will have to change
the rear derailleur (really?),

No, not if your present derailer is in decent shape. Derailers don't care how many speeds.

Quoted message said:

and chain. Why would I have to change the crankset, ie, chainrings and bottom bracket?

You don't.

There is a lot of confusion about the compatibility of narrow 9-speed chains with older cranksets.
Shimano says you should replace the inner chainring(s) with specially designated 9-speed ones, but
then they're all too eager to sell you stuff, whether you need it or not.

Shimano is also concerned about clueless users. The worst-case scenario is that you will be riding
along with the bike in its highest gear (large front, small rear) and then for some bizarre reason
shift down in front before downshifting in the back. (There is no shift pattern in which it is
reasonable to shift in this sequence.) If you _do_ shift this way, there's a small chance that the
chain might "skate" over the edges of the teeth for maybe half a turn.

In practice this "problem" almost never materializes. Many, many cyclists are using 9-speed chains
with older cranksets and having no problems whatever.

My advice is to go ahead and upgrade your drivetrain, but leave the crankset alone until you've
tried it out with the new chain. Most likely, you don't need to do anything to it.

Sheldon "Save Your Money" Brown +------------------------------------------------------------+
| What are politicians going to tell people when the | Constitution is gone and we still have a
| drug problem? | -- William Simpson, A.C.L.U. |
+------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Dennis Vaughn said:

I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd cassette. I know that I will have to change
the rear derailleur (really?), and chain. Why would I have to change the crankset, ie, chainrings
and bottom bracket? Is there a tooth spacing issue with the chainrings between 7spd and 9 spd? Do I
have to change the bottom bracket? Is there a square tapered crankset for my bottom bracket or is
it better to go to the splined bracket and cranks? Is there any advantage between the splined
bottom bracket and square tapered bottom bracket? Thanks, Dennis

You need shifters to shift the narrower spacing between cogs, unless you have friction shifting.

You need a hub body that will permit you to mount the longer cassette. You could put 8 of 9 cogs on
your 7sp hub.

Assuming you are a ShimaNO person, that's all you need.

vaughden-<< I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd cassette. I know that I will have
to change the rear derailleur (really?), and chain. >><BR><BR>

Yes for the chain, not so for the rear der if it isn't toasted, generally.

vaughn<< Why would I have to change the crankset, ie, chainrings and bottom bracket?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

You generally wouldn't. Stay away from shimano spline. You shouldn't have to change anything but
your shifters, rear hub, cogset and chain.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Peter Chisholm) said:

vaughden-<< I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd cassette. I know that I will
have to change the rear derailleur (really?), and chain. >><BR><BR>

Yes for the chain, not so for the rear der if it isn't toasted, generally.

vaughn<< Why would I have to change the crankset, ie, chainrings and bottom bracket?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

You generally wouldn't. Stay away from shimano spline. You shouldn't have to change anything but
your shifters, rear hub, cogset and chain.

Not necessarily the rear hub. I upgraded an old Shimano 105 pre-hyperglide 7-speed hub to 8/9 speeds
by just replacing the freehub body. You have to remove the axle and use a (IIRC) 10mm allen wrench
to pull the old body. I've read that replacing the rear axle with one 4mm longer is optional, but
since I had one laying around, I did. You then have to re-dish the wheel 2mm to the right.

This may sound like a lot of work, but to me it's easier than replacing a hub, and cheaper too.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

I had wondered about what was needed. Thanks Dennis "John Everett"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Peter Chisholm) said:

vaughden-<< I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd

cassette. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

know that I will have to change the rear derailleur (really?), and chain.
<BR><BR>

Yes for the chain, not so for the rear der if it isn't toasted,

generally.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vaughn<< Why would I have to change the crankset, ie, chainrings and bottom bracket?

Quoted message said:

><BR><BR>

You generally wouldn't. Stay away from shimano spline. You shouldn't have

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change anything but your shifters, rear hub, cogset and chain.

Not necessarily the rear hub. I upgraded an old Shimano 105 pre-hyperglide 7-speed hub to 8/9
speeds by just replacing the freehub body. You have to remove the axle and use a (IIRC) 10mm
allen wrench to pull the old body. I've read that replacing the rear axle with one 4mm longer is
optional, but since I had one laying around, I did. You then have to re-dish the wheel 2mm to
the right.

This may sound like a lot of work, but to me it's easier than replacing a hub, and cheaper too.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

It sounds like someone is trying to sell a lot of stuff for no reason at all. Maybe folks are
gullable. I did not think that it was necessary to purchase a bunch of stuff. The reason I asked
about this is the bike I have has downtube shifters (SIS/Friction) and wondered about the
changeover. I had planned on getting the Brifters (I think that's what they call them now) and
upgrading the rear cassette on a new wheelset.

"John Everett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Peter Chisholm) said:

vaughden-<< I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd

cassette. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

know that I will have to change the rear derailleur (really?), and chain.
<BR><BR>

Yes for the chain, not so for the rear der if it isn't toasted,

generally.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vaughn<< Why would I have to change the crankset, ie, chainrings and bottom bracket?

Quoted message said:

><BR><BR>

You generally wouldn't. Stay away from shimano spline. You shouldn't have

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change anything but your shifters, rear hub, cogset and chain.

Not necessarily the rear hub. I upgraded an old Shimano 105 pre-hyperglide 7-speed hub to 8/9
speeds by just replacing the freehub body. You have to remove the axle and use a (IIRC) 10mm
allen wrench to pull the old body. I've read that replacing the rear axle with one 4mm longer is
optional, but since I had one laying around, I did. You then have to re-dish the wheel 2mm to
the right.

This may sound like a lot of work, but to me it's easier than replacing a hub, and cheaper too.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

"Dennis Vaughn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd cassette. I know that I will have to change
the rear derailleur (really?), and chain.

Don't forget the new rear wheel or hub. 8 & 9 speed cassettes won't fit on a 7 speed freehub. Dave

Quoted message said:

vaughden-<< I am looking to upgrade from a 7spd cassette to a 9spd cassette. I know that I will
have to change the rear derailleur (really?), and chain. >><BR><BR>

(PC)> Yes for the chain, not so for the rear der if it isn't toasted, generally.

Quoted message said:

vaughn<< Why would I have to change the crankset, ie, chainrings and bottom bracket?

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

You generally wouldn't. Stay away from shimano spline. You shouldn't have to change anything but
your shifters, rear hub, cogset and chain.

yellowjersey.orgergokit.htmlOpen ↗

Sort of like this, add a couple hundred dollars if you want to buy into the Shimano system instead
of just normal Ergo.

Nine speed crank? Not necessary. As an example, you can even do that with thity year old French
equipment. We do an amazingly large number of these:
yellowjersey.orgPEUGERGO.JPGOpen ↗

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Stay away from shimano spline.

why do you say that peter? personally, i think it's a significant improvement on the square taper
and /definitely/ better than isis.

jb

On 01 Nov 2003 14:47:16 GMT, [email hidden] ("Quidquid bonum tibi est, tibi bonus est." - (P.

Chisholm)) said:

Jim-<< why do you say that peter? personally, i think it's a significant improvement on the square
taper and /definitely/ better than isis >><BR><BR>

The big thinkers will say the design is not superior to ISIS, but mostly because shimano is
abandoning this design. XTR and XT are mostly gone, DA is for 2004 followed by ultegra in 2005. It
would be a shame to have to change your crank because the BB is worn out.

Is there no other solution you can offer for a worn crankbearing than crank replacement?

Quoted message said:

As for superior to square taper, hardly. Spline(Octalink) solves no problem, answers no question
other than taking aftermarket cranks and BBs outta the market by big 'S'.

Your sloganeering aside, the splined crank joint does offer some advantages over the old tapered
spindles. It has been discussed here often. Further, Shimano made their eight-spline design an open
source for other manufacturers to use, which has given rise to Octalink crank models from FSA,
Ritchey, Sugino (there may be others). How do you interpret that as "taking aftermarket cranks out
of the market"?
-------------------------------
John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Now in our twenty-first year. Our catalog of track
equipment: eighth year online. businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

The big thinkers will say the design is not superior to ISIS,

i'd like to see the rationale for this. octalink uses a taper for snug creak-free fit and lateral
load, with splines to transmit torque. isis completely ignores the former and goes madly overkill on
the latter. for these reasons, imo, isis is /not/ a significant improvement on taper.

i believe octalink was genuine innovation being much more out-of-torque tolerant [let's face it,
that /is/ a common problem] and making the best possible use of the available space to provide a
diameter-maximized, light, stiff axle with highly optimized roller bearings - something that taper
bb's needed in my opinion.

Quoted message said:

but mostly because shimano is abandoning this design. XTR and XT are mostly gone

true. i recently bought a couple of spare bb's for this reason. i /like/ my d/a & xt cranks, and
don't see any need to upgrade this time around.

and for the record, if campy used octalink [or their own similar version], i'd get rid on my d/a
crank the same day it came out. /i/ use
d/a /because/ of octalink!

Quoted message said:

DA is for 2004 followed by ultegra in 2005. It would be a shame to have to change your crank
because the BB is worn out. As for superior to square taper, hardly. Spline(Octalink) solves no
problem, answers no question other than taking aftermarket cranks and BBs outta the market by
big 'S'.

i can see the "big 'S'" thing being an issue, and i guess that's where isis came from. alec
issigonis, creator of the original mini euro-car, once said: "the camel is a horse designed by
committee". isis is a camel.

jb

You know, sometimes it is something else to see where an original post goes. I had no idea that it
could be really a debate on what bottom bracket is better. My question was if anyone still made a
good tapered bottom bracket for my roadbike. I was looking into possible drivetrain problems with my
bike and I thought it may have been the bottom bracket, and turned out being the chain and rear
sprocket assy. I was also looking at upgrading to a 8 or 9 spd gearing and wondered if I would need
to purchase a new crank and bottom bracket assy. because my bike has the tapered bb. The bike that
I'm currently asking the question about is a Schwinn Paramount oversized road bike. Here's some info
on the bike. I can't find any info about this bike on the net other than it was made in Japan when
Schwinn was going through a turnover with the paramount now named Waterford.cycles.

Specs:
53.5 cm (21"😉 c/c I think it is steel (chromoly whatever it is called now) RX-100 Shimano group
Brakes, shifters, hubs, cranks, front and rear der. all designated A550 Pedals are shimano PD1056
Seat tube has PGD Light alloy stamped on it Saddle is Vetta (underneath it says Selle Italia my
guess is it was made in 1991) Wheels are Araya 700C
S/N found on bottom bracket shell 2B0140 I have no idea what it means. I would guess maybe 1992,
January, 140th frame off the line. I can't find anything that explains this S/N. Waterford,
Schwinn.....nothing. Any help would be appreciated. Dennis "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

UCE-<< The big thinkers will say the design is not superior to ISIS,

i'd like to see the rationale for this. octalink uses a taper for snug creak-free fit and lateral
load, with splines to transmit torque

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Jobst? Over to you....

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Dennis Vaughn said:

You know, sometimes it is something else to see where an original post goes. I had no idea that it
could be really a debate on what bottom bracket is better. My question was if anyone still made a
good tapered bottom bracket for my roadbike.

Yes, lots of 'em. Shimano is the best value, under $30.

Quoted message said:

I was looking into possible drivetrain problems with my bike and I thought it may have been the
bottom bracket, and turned out being the chain and rear sprocket assy. I was also looking at
upgrading to a 8 or 9 spd gearing and wondered if I would need to purchase a new crank and bottom
bracket assy. because my bike has the tapered bb.

No, you don't. Your RX-100 crank will work fine with any modern equipment.

See: sheldonbrown.combbsize.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Here's some info on the bike. I can't find any info about this bike on the net other than it was
made in Japan when Schwinn was going through a turnover with the paramount now named
Waterford.cycles.

Specs: RX-100 Shimano group Brakes, shifters, hubs, cranks, front and rear der. all
designated A550

Sheldon "UN-73" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea | -- massive, difficult to redirect,
| awe-inspiring, entertaining, | and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you |
| least expect it. --Gene Spafford, 1992 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Sheldon Brown said:

Dennis Vaughn said:

You know, sometimes it is something else to see where an original post goes. I had no idea that
it could be really a debate on what bottom bracket is better. My question was if anyone still
made a good tapered bottom bracket for my roadbike.

Yes, lots of 'em. Shimano is the best value, under $30.

Absolutely. Shimano bottom brackets are one of the best bargains in cycling. Reliable, smooth,
and cheap.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. _`\(,_ | That is easy. All
you have to do is tell them they are being (_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for
lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any <country. --
Hermann Goering