Well, [censored]

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:27:40 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
rather silly. We don't have 230v.

I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".

Quoted message said:

That's just used for specs. And
we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
an installation you've not seen.

I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.

And also? The system Sky was describing isn't one she has access to
now, but one she described as being around when she was a child.

I know that. What I wrote was about older systems. Look above and
you'll see the word older.

Lou

In article <[email hidden]>,

Wayne Boatwright said:

Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 12:24:22a, Miche meant to say...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Wayne Boatwright said:

Miche, the following is typical for the US...

Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like
the clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
depending on the appliance.

Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps.
Wall outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20
amps.

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the
update.

Actually, Miche, there are other voltages used in the US as well; e.g.,
208, 277, and 480, but these are used mostly in commercial applications.
There are other variables as well, such as cycles (50, 60), and phases
(single phase, 3-phase, etc.).

In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
course), all at 50Hz.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

In article <[email hidden]>,

Wayne Boatwright said:

Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 12:24:22a, Miche meant to say...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Wayne Boatwright said:

Miche, the following is typical for the US...

Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like
the clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
depending on the appliance.

Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps.
Wall outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20
amps.

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the
update.

Actually, Miche, there are other voltages used in the US as well; e.g.,
208, 277, and 480, but these are used mostly in commercial applications.
There are other variables as well, such as cycles (50, 60), and phases
(single phase, 3-phase, etc.).

In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
course), all at 50Hz.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lou Decruss said:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:27:40 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
> rather silly. We don't have 230v.

I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".

> That's just used for specs. And
> we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
> spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
> to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
> and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
> unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
> training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
> an installation you've not seen.

I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.

And also? The system Sky was describing isn't one she has access to
now, but one she described as being around when she was a child.

I know that. What I wrote was about older systems. Look above and
you'll see the word older.

Fair enough. Did you see where I was talking about NZ systems?

Miche (let's call this quits, shall we?)

--
Electricians do it in three phases

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lou Decruss said:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:27:40 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
> rather silly. We don't have 230v.

I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".

> That's just used for specs. And
> we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
> spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
> to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
> and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
> unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
> training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
> an installation you've not seen.

I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.

And also? The system Sky was describing isn't one she has access to
now, but one she described as being around when she was a child.

I know that. What I wrote was about older systems. Look above and
you'll see the word older.

Fair enough. Did you see where I was talking about NZ systems?

Miche (let's call this quits, shall we?)

--
Electricians do it in three phases

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael \'Dog3\ said:

Miche <[email hidden]> dropped this news:micheinnz-
[email hidden]: in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.

<groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast in and
a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed to pre-heat
the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I do that.

Quoted message said:

Michael

You dipstick!. Didn't you notice when you opened the oven door that
there was no warm, if not hot, air coming out? LOL!

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Notes about our meals in Tuscany have been posted to
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com; 10-16-2007

Melba's Jammin' <[email hidden]> dropped this
news:[email hidden]: in
rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast
in and a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed
to pre-heat the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I
do that.

Quoted message said:

Michael

You dipstick!. Didn't you notice when you opened the oven door that
there was no warm, if not hot, air coming out? LOL!

It was one of those really distracting days. All the commotion going on
around the house is why I was doing the roast in the first place. Pot
roast. I didn't even notice the oven wasn't on. I've done this twice. I
really hate eating at 11pm. I double check now.

Michael

--
Too much fun! Click the card link and print 'em out.

http://shorterlink.com/?87KN1V

Send email to: michael at lonergan dot us dot com

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:29:44 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
course), all at 50Hz.

How boring. Where's the fun? Where's the profit?

<running>

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:29:44 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
course), all at 50Hz.

How boring. Where's the fun? Where's the profit?

<running>

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sky said:

Miche said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Sky <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >
> > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > >
> > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in
> > > the
> > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned
> > > the
> > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off theoven
> > > to
> > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> >
> > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulledthe
> > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> > >
> > > Sky
> > >
> > --Bryan
>
> Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
> circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.

Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.

Miche

😉 Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to take
care of it (I think?!).

Always the best move, if you're not sure.

And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. 😉

Miche

Nominal service is 120VAC at 200A (24,000kW)per houshold though the
McMansion are setup for 600A (72,000kW) or more.

At my former job site we had a generator that put out 480VAC at 125kW.
The entire computer room had a 480V transformer serving it and stepping
voltages down to three separate phase 120V circuits.

Now there'a move to standardize computer rooms on 48VDC, which curiously
is what telecoms use.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Wayne Boatwright said:

Oh pshaw, on Sat 10 Nov 2007 10:26:24p, Miche meant to say...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Sky <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Miche wrote:
> >
> > In article <[email hidden]>,
> > Sky <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin
> > > > > roast in the pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad
> > > > > accidentally turned the oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The
> > > > > oven then locked itself with the roast in the oven (big time
> > > > > ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to disengage the
> > > > > 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I forget
> > > > > how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> > > >
> > > > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled
> > > > the plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to
> > > > work).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sky
> > > > >
> > > > --Bryan
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> > > oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off
> > > the circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at
> > > that time.
> >
> > Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the
> > 230V AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit
> > bigger.
> >
> > Miche
>
> 😉 Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhapsmy
> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to
> take care of it (I think?!).

Always the best move, if you're not sure.

And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. 😉

Miche, the following is typical for the US...

Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like the
clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
depending on the appliance.

Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps. Wall
outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20 amps.

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the update.

Oh, and for those listening at home, I do not advocate doing anything
with an untested installation, especially if it's unlabelled. If in
doubt, call a registered electrician.

Miche

Most power delivered to homes is 2 phase. To get that 240V circuit we
just bond two phases to the device.

The beauty of using phased power is that the total current per leg is
reduced.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Miche said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.

Miche

😉 Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to take
care of it (I think?!).

Always the best move, if you're not sure.

And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. 😉

In almost all cases in the US, the feed is 220 volts. Electric stoves,
electric clothes dryers and electric furnaces run at 220. Everything
else runs at 110.

Since I have a gas stove, a gas dryer and a gas furnace, I have nothing
that runs at 220. Still, that's my feed. Half of my outlets run on one
half, the other half run on the other half.

Calculating amperage is simple. Watts are simply amps times voltage.
If I need 4400 watts for a stove, I need 40 amps at 110, or 20 amps at
220.

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:40:15 -0500, T <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Most power delivered to homes is 2 phase. To get that 240V circuit we
just bond two phases to the device.

There is no such thing as 2 phase. Two hot legs to a device produce
single phase.

Lou

Dan Abel said:

In almost all cases in the US, the feed is 220 volts. Electric stoves,
electric clothes dryers and electric furnaces run at 220. Everything
else runs at 110.

110/220 hasn't existed in the US since the early 1900's. It's
120/240. Drops for mobile homes remained 110v a bit longer but
they're now 120v also.

Lou

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:17:56 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lou Decruss said:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:27:40 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

> > Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
> > rather silly. We don't have 230v.
>
> I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".
>
> > That's just used for specs. And
> > we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
> > spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
> > to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
> > and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
> > unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
> > training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
> > an installation you've not seen.
>
> I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.

And also? The system Sky was describing isn't one she has access to
now, but one she described as being around when she was a child.

I know that. What I wrote was about older systems. Look above and
you'll see the word older.

Fair enough. Did you see where I was talking about NZ systems?

Yep.

Quoted message said:

Miche (let's call this quits, shall we?)

It's a deal.

Lou

In article <[email hidden]>,

Miche said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to

Quoted message said:

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the update.

Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the outer
two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one of the
outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A (at 220)
service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at 220). I also
got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main switch (the "rule of
five"😉 and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a 220 breaker for the
electric dryer.

Wayne Boatwright said:

Quoted message said:

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the
update.

Actually, Miche, there are other voltages used in the US as well; e.g.,
208, 277, and 480, but these are used mostly in commercial applications.
There are other variables as well, such as cycles (50, 60), and phases
(single phase, 3-phase, etc.).

There's a [censored] 177 that gets snuck in there too. It, along with
277 have a habit of jumping more for some reason and hurt a LOT if you
get in the way. <g>

Lou

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dan Abel said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Miche said:

Quoted message said:

>> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
>> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to

Quoted message said:

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the update.

Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the outer
two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one of the
outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A (at 220)
service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at 220). I also
got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main switch (the "rule of
five"😉 and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a 220 breaker for the
electric dryer.

That's really interesting. All installations here have a main switch.
Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V (400 between
phases if there's more than one phase which there usually isn't -- if
there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that this is for domestic supply
-- commercial supply can be much, much gruntier by way of amperage, but
still at 400V line voltage for three-phase.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

In article said:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:29:44 +1300, Miche <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
course), all at 50Hz.

How boring. Where's the fun? Where's the profit?

<running>

Let's not go there. Since the "national grid" was deregulated, power
prices have gone through the roof.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 10:48:02p, Miche meant to say...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dan Abel said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Miche said:

> >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual
> >> details. Dad was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it
> >> up to him how to

Quoted message said:

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was
under the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for
the update.

Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the outer
two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one of the
outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A (at 220)
service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at 220). I also
got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main switch (the "rule of
five"😉 and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a 220 breaker for the
electric dryer.

That's really interesting. All installations here have a main switch.
Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V (400 between
phases if there's more than one phase which there usually isn't -- if
there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that this is for domestic supply
-- commercial supply can be much, much gruntier by way of amperage, but
still at 400V line voltage for three-phase.

Miche

We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220 volts, and each
with a master breaker. It's an all electric home, so we have greater power
demands than homes that use gas for heating, cooking, and heating water in
lieu of electric. We could probably get by with one 200 amp panel, but I
like the idea of being able to expand without involving major power
changes. If we put in a pool and/or backyard spa, we will definitely use
some of that additional capacity.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

OK, I'm weird ! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.