Weight training?

x-no-archive: yes

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Quoted message said:

I would think there would be a difference between a flat stomach,
and a flat stomach with some ripples underneath?

No, the difference is still bodyfat. You will get the washboard look by losing
body fat.

That doesn't make intuitive sense. Aren't the hard core body builders
lifting weights because it makes their muscles more pronounced? If your
response is taken literally, they're wasting their time, they should
just lose weight to expose the muscle, and then oil up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Take self-defense or similar.

Yeah, I'd like to. Again, I think strength would also help, not just
knowing technique. I mean, come on, a 5'5" female black belt against a
6'2" hulking bruiser with no training - she's going to be have to be
awfully damn good and get some perfect shots to take him down. He can
take her down through brute strength.

One thing you'll learn in self-defense is that she doesn't have to win by a
knockout. It's usually good enough to kick him in the knee and run.
Self-defense is rarely a tournament situation.

Right. But she has to get in close enough and hit the right spot at the
right time. As I said, I'm sure training helps, but someone a foot
taller and 100 lbs heavier has a big advantage based on size alone.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Again, that's my ultimate goal, to hit both targets, not necessarily to
peak at either. Although I think I'm at the sweet spot in the beginning

OK, that's up to you.

Right, that's what I've stated several times now.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:59:02 GMT, Janithor <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

That doesn't make intuitive sense. Aren't the hard core body builders
lifting weights because it makes their muscles more pronounced? If your
response is taken literally, they're wasting their time, they should
just lose weight to expose the muscle, and then oil up.

Rebechi is a dickless wonder. Ignore his stupidity. BTW, he weighs
140lbs, and looks like a stickboy, so you decide. To get well defined
muscles requires work, not weight loss.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Janithor said:

Quoted message said:

No, the difference is still bodyfat. You will get the washboard look by losing
body fat.

That doesn't make intuitive sense.

Intuition is often wrong.

Quoted message said:

Aren't the hard core body builders
lifting weights because it makes their muscles more pronounced?

No. They lift weights because it makes their muscles larger. Take a look at
powerlifters, and heavy class olympic lifters -- these guys are big, but don't
look "toned".

For muscle definition, bodybuilders watch their diet very carefully and for the
most part, do cardiovascular exercise.

Pre-competition, they additionally lose some water, and tan.

Quoted message said:

If your
response is taken literally, they're wasting their time, they should
just lose weight to expose the muscle, and then oil up.

No. Muscle mass is one of the criteria they are judged on. The guy with the best
muscle definition doesn't necessarily win (in fact seldom wins)

Quoted message said:

Right. But she has to get in close enough and hit the right spot at the
right time.

What you'll learn if you do a self-defense course is that it's all about taking
initiative. If the other guy never moves close, then there's nothing to worry
about. But usually they move close and snarl for a few seconds and there's a
window of opportunity to smack them. Most real world self-defense scenarios are
not like a boxing or martial arts tournament where you bow to your opponent and
then sort of shuffle around the ring at a distance.

By the way, it would not make the slightest bit of difference to the outcome of
your scenario if she improved her bench press from 45lb to about 90lb.

If her self-defense strategy is in any way dependent on upper body strength,
she's already lost.

Quoted message said:

As I said, I'm sure training helps, but someone a foot
taller and 100 lbs heavier has a big advantage based on size alone.

The bad news is that nothing you do in the gym will make you 100lb heavier and
a foot taller! If you do lift, one thing you're going to learn pretty quickly
is that you would be hopelessly overpowered in any sort of strength competition
with the stronger guys, even if you trained your butt off and they sat on the
couch eating burgers all day.

For example, some typical bench press numbers:

typical woman: ~45lb-60lb
woman with some training: ~90lb-110lb
wimpy guy with no training: ~100lb-115lb
wimpy guy with training: ~135-155lb
average guy, no training: ~135-155lb
strong guy with no training: ~225lb
typical gym rat ~225lb
powerlifter or football player ~300lb-500lb

as you can see, big differences in strength, and the very strong guys are
still much stronger than you even after you do a lot of training.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

The Bill Rodgers said:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:59:02 GMT, Janithor <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

That doesn't make intuitive sense. Aren't the hard core body builders
lifting weights because it makes their muscles more pronounced? If your
response is taken literally, they're wasting their time, they should
just lose weight to expose the muscle, and then oil up.

Rebechi is a dickless wonder. Ignore his stupidity. BTW, he weighs
140lbs, and looks like a stickboy, so you decide. To get well defined
muscles requires work, not weight loss.

Muscle definition looks OK to me ... even at my "stick boy" body weight.

http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/running/images/club_champs_05.jpg

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/running/images/club_champs_05.jpg

Looks good to me. ;-).

One thing I've noticed in your running photos is your odd hand
position. Is this natural for you?

tkb

TenKBabe said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/running/images/club_champs_05.jpg

Looks good to me. ;-).

One thing I've noticed in your running photos is your odd hand
position. Is this natural for you?

Doh! looks like I hit "reply" instead of "followup".

Yeah, I tend to do that, especially when I'm running fast. nervous twitch in
my fingers or something, I just don't feel that comfortable with my hands
cupped all the time.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

TenKBabe said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/running/images/club_champs_05.jpg

Looks good to me. ;-).

One thing I've noticed in your running photos is your odd hand
position. Is this natural for you?

Doh! looks like I hit "reply" instead of "followup".

With your hands all contorted it's probably easy to press the wrong
key. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I tend to do that, especially when I'm running fast. nervous twitch in
my fingers or something, I just don't feel that comfortable with my hands
cupped all the time.

To me, it just looks like you're not relaxed. I try to keep a relaxed
upper body, even the hands. Anyone else, such as a coach or team
members, say anything about it? As long as it's comfortable and not
causing any extra tension, then I guess it doesn't really matter.

tkb

TenKBabe said:

One thing I've noticed in your running photos is your odd hand
position. Is this natural for you?

It's from excessive masturbation.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Donovan Rebbechi said:

What you'll learn if you do a self-defense course is that it's all about taking
initiative. If the other guy never moves close, then there's nothing to worry
about. But usually they move close and snarl for a few seconds and there's a
window of opportunity to smack them. Most real world self-defense scenarios are
not like a boxing or martial arts tournament where you bow to your opponent and
then sort of shuffle around the ring at a distance.

Sometimes it's called a sucker punch. That's what the guy who's ass
you've kicked will call it when he recounts the story at work on
Monday. The person who lands the first punch almost always wins in any
bar-fight or self-defence scenario. It's a matter of being able to
sense whether the guy snarling is going to bark or bite.

To me, it just looks like you're not relaxed. I try to keep a relaxed
upper body, even the hands. Anyone else, such as a coach or team
members, say anything about it?
_

really? imo it illustrates total relaxation, loose, free & flying. i
thought the whole objective was to run with your hands open and fingers
loose and free to dangle or do whatever it is they do...no? when i
catch myself w/cupped hands, i am running too reserved, when i have
clenched fist....(sans sprint to finish)....i'm usually running too
tight & or struggling...

TenKBabe said:

One thing I've noticed in your running photos is your odd hand
position. Is this natural for you?

It's gang-sign. Or the "shocker".

I look MUCH BETTER THAN YOU!!!!!

http://tinypic.com/dxbl79.jpg

Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Bill Rodgers said:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:59:02 GMT, Janithor <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

That doesn't make intuitive sense. Aren't the hard core body builders
lifting weights because it makes their muscles more pronounced? If your
response is taken literally, they're wasting their time, they should
just lose weight to expose the muscle, and then oil up.

Rebechi is a dickless wonder. Ignore his stupidity. BTW, he weighs
140lbs, and looks like a stickboy, so you decide. To get well defined
muscles requires work, not weight loss.

Muscle definition looks OK to me ... even at my "stick boy" body weight.

http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/running/images/club_champs_05.jpg

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

To me, it just looks like you're not relaxed. I try to keep a relaxed
upper body, even the hands. Anyone else, such as a coach or team
members, say anything about it?
_

really?
imo it illustrates total relaxation, loose, free & flying.

*IF* that is his natural hand position. To me, they certainly look
contorted. If you look at some other photos they are contorted in a
different manner. That may be a sign that it is not a natural hand
position.

Quoted message said:

thought the whole objective was to run with your hands open and fingers
loose and free to dangle or do whatever it is they do...no?

Yes. Again, are they loose and free? Doesn't look like it to me. I
guess only Donovan knows for sure.

Quoted message said:

when i
catch myself w/cupped hands, i am running too reserved, when i have
clenched fist....(sans sprint to finish)....i'm usually running too
tight & or struggling...

Just hold your hand out, sort of limp and relaxed. Is it cupped or
clenched? It is closer to being cupped. Fingers slightly curved, not
touching eachother and not touching your palms. That is relaxed. Not
like Donovan's hands appear to be.

tkb

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Having the appearance of "tone" is really just about having less body
fat.

really? so is this person exceptionally well "toned"?
http://www.pix.org.uk/showcase/1998/images/image_0002.jpg

An I thought you were not married.

-Df

The Bill Rodgers said:

TenKBabe said:

One thing I've noticed in your running photos is your odd hand
position. Is this natural for you?

It's from excessive masturbation.
TBR

You're right. Fortunately help is available.

http://www.sexualcontrol.com/masturbation-addiction.html

Quoted message said:

Just hold your hand out, sort of limp and relaxed. Is it cupped or

clenched? It is closer to being cupped. Fingers slightly curved, not
touching eachother and not touching your palms. That is relaxed. Not
like Donovan's hands appear to be.
__

are you aware paula radcliffe runs with her eyes rolled upward
backwards into her head to where you can barely see her pupils and she
cannot see runners adjacent and slightly ahead of her? she also
famously bobs her head up and down like one of those tacky spring head
bobbing dolls/dogs, etc.

who's to say what's natural, relaxed, or comfortable for another
individual? there are very very good runners who counter convention
and ball strike for example...

ooops....i mean there are very good runners who are heel
strikers.....countering convention....

Quoted message said:

who's to say what's natural, relaxed, or comfortable for another
individual? there are very very good runners who counter convention
and ball strike for example...

It seems you just want to argue. Unfortunately for you, I agree 100%.
Did you not read my entire post?

Like this:

Quoted message said:

*IF* that is his natural hand position.

And:

Quoted message said:

I guess only Donovan knows for sure.

tkb

x-no-archive: yes

Donovan Rebbechi said:

The bad news is that nothing you do in the gym will make you 100lb heavier and
a foot taller! If you do lift, one thing you're going to learn pretty quickly
is that you would be hopelessly overpowered in any sort of strength competition
with the stronger guys, even if you trained your butt off and they sat on the
couch eating burgers all day.

For example, some typical bench press numbers:

typical woman: ~45lb-60lb
woman with some training: ~90lb-110lb
wimpy guy with no training: ~100lb-115lb
wimpy guy with training: ~135-155lb
average guy, no training: ~135-155lb
strong guy with no training: ~225lb
typical gym rat ~225lb
powerlifter or football player ~300lb-500lb

as you can see, big differences in strength, and the very strong guys are
still much stronger than you even after you do a lot of training.

Cheers,

Right, and the very fast guys are going to be faster than me no matter
how many miles I put behind me. Therefore, don't run?

It's simple bro: I want to lift to get stronger. That's it! Simple.
Not nearly as complex as you're making it.

x-no-archive: yes

TenKBabe said:

Quoted message said:

who's to say what's natural, relaxed, or comfortable for another
individual? there are very very good runners who counter convention
and ball strike for example...

It seems you just want to argue. Unfortunately for you, I agree 100%.
Did you not read my entire post?

He did the same thing with me. It's usenet. <shrug>

Quoted message said:

Like this:

Quoted message said:

*IF* that is his natural hand position.

And:

Quoted message said:

I guess only Donovan knows for sure.

tkb