Weight loss during rides

Quoted message said:

I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
normal?

Yes

Quoted message said:

I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
(maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
like I need to.

One bottle may be ok but you didn't use enough of it.

Quoted message said:

Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
rides). This is my assumption.

Wrong. Your own data show that you are losing ~4 lbs. That is not a
serious health issue but is the beginning of dehydration. One gallon of
water weighs 8 lbs so you are down 2 quarts.

Quoted message said:

Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
(of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.

Your friend has it right.

Quoted message said:

I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
normal?

I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
(maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
like I need to.

Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
rides). This is my assumption.

Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
(of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.

You loss sounds about right. I lose 2 pounds an hour. You're ok for a
short ride, but any dehydration hampers your performance.

Quoted message said:

I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
(maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
like I need to.

What color is your urine after the ride? If it's dark yellow, you need the
water.

Quoted message said:

Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
rides). This is my assumption.

It depends upon the heat and humidity and length of time on the bike. For
example, it was 103 F here in North Texas today. One hour on a bike and you
would have used all of that water.

Quoted message said:

Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
(of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.

You are playing with disaster. The rule of thumb is 1 liter per hour.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
normal?

Seems a bit high.

Quoted message said:

I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
(maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
like I need to.

You probably don't.

Quoted message said:

Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
rides). This is my assumption.

Pretty much true.

Quoted message said:

Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
(of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.

People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
normal?

Seems a bit high.

Quoted message said:

I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
(maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
like I need to.

You probably don't.

Quoted message said:

Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
rides). This is my assumption.

Pretty much true.

Quoted message said:

Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
(of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.

People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Not really.
I got myself into a long ride that started off cool and then the weather
changed while I was about 35 Miles for home and no stores, creeks, or
parks with fountains on the way back. I did start with 3 water bottles
but they were gone at the 35 mile turn around point and the ride home
was in increasingly warmer / hotter weather. The last ten miles were a
real slow pedaling drag and I learned not matter what he says, "DON'T
BELIEVE THE WEATHERMAN ON TELEVISION." I came back about 8 pounds
lighter for a five hour day, hiking included but no streams.
8 out of 180 (I'm too heavy now) is still a bit of a concern.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
normal?

Yes; 2 qts. in a hour, right on the norm.

Quoted message said:

I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
(maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
like I need to.

Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
rides). This is my assumption.

There's a big jump from one hour rides to five hour rides. You seem to
be OK with the one hour ride, losing about 2 qts. of fluid. As long as
that's the maximum ride you take, you'll probably continue to be OK.

The problem I see is two-fold. First, you're probably riding right to
the edge of where dehydration will become an issue. If, as some have
suggested, losing 3% of your body weight in sweat is where performance
starts to degrade, and assuming you weight 200 pounds or a bit less, if
you take a two hour ride, I'd expect you to feel the effects during the
last 30 minutes. The second part of the problem is that you're not
training yourself to drink while riding. No big deal as long as you
keep the ride length down, but you're limiting yourself.

Quoted message said:

Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
(of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.

Sounds like he could have taken that ride again immediately after
finishing -- could you?

Pat

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:12:58 -0400, Bill Baka <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
normal?

Seems a bit high.

Quoted message said:

I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
(maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
like I need to.

You probably don't.

Quoted message said:

Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
rides). This is my assumption.

Pretty much true.

Quoted message said:

Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
(of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.

People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Not really.
I got myself into a long ride that started off cool and then the weather
changed while I was about 35 Miles for home and no stores, creeks, or
parks with fountains on the way back. I did start with 3 water bottles
but they were gone at the 35 mile turn around point and the ride home
was in increasingly warmer / hotter weather. The last ten miles were a
real slow pedaling drag and I learned not matter what he says, "DON'T
BELIEVE THE WEATHERMAN ON TELEVISION." I came back about 8 pounds
lighter for a five hour day, hiking included but no streams.
8 out of 180 (I'm too heavy now) is still a bit of a concern.
Bill Baka

Personally, I take as much water as I can carry, as most of my ride does
not have water sources (including grocery stores, etc.).

--
Bob in CT

Bob in CT said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:12:58 -0400, Bill Baka <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
> normal?
>
Seems a bit high.

> I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
> (maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
> like I need to.
You probably don't.

>
> Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
> become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
> rides). This is my assumption.
Pretty much true.

>
> Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
> (of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.
>
People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Not really.
I got myself into a long ride that started off cool and then the
weather changed while I was about 35 Miles for home and no stores,
creeks, or parks with fountains on the way back. I did start with 3
water bottles but they were gone at the 35 mile turn around point and
the ride home was in increasingly warmer / hotter weather. The last
ten miles were a real slow pedaling drag and I learned not matter what
he says, "DON'T BELIEVE THE WEATHERMAN ON TELEVISION." I came back
about 8 pounds lighter for a five hour day, hiking included but no
streams.
8 out of 180 (I'm too heavy now) is still a bit of a concern.
Bill Baka

Personally, I take as much water as I can carry, as most of my ride does
not have water sources (including grocery stores, etc.).

--Bob in CT

That puts me in the Phred mode with an extra bottle strapped to my front
fork via car radiator hose clamp, other side has the speedo wires. I
also put 2 wire baskets on the back as far as they would go so my heel
didn't hit them every revolution. Those keep a 1 Gallon cooler of ice
and water in one side and an ice chest (just fits) one the other side.
That one I fill with food. I stuff my back pack or as much as I can into
the remaining space and have a garbage bag for an emergency poncho,
looks really dumb but keeps me mostly dry. I also have some food for
canned foods and tools in the rack. I drag about 40 pounds extra this
way but I am good for a full day at 100 degrees. I am not racing, just
touring so it makes a bit of difference.
Bill Baka

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Peter, ususally your advice is pretty good but on this I think it is
actually dangerous. Perhaps you don't have issues with dehydration,
however, it is a real and serious issue with repurcussions that involve
not only performance but health.

I live and ride in southern Arizona. We often have humidity levels of
less than 10%. In that arid condition perspiration os often evaporating
as quickly as it forms. As a result folks not used to this feel dry and
don't understand that they are losing fluids rapidly. This can be a
very dangerous situation. I have witnessed and had to deal with folks
who have dehydrated to the point of heat stroke and it is a serious
and scary condition. There is a farily rapid loss of coordination
accompanied by dizziness and cramping. This is not a good situation
while on a bike on some country road far from shade or sources of fluid
replacement.

If the OP is losing ~4 lbs that is a half gallon of water. Put another
way assume he is somewhere near "average" in body size, say 180 lbs.
then this repesents a loss of over 2% of total body weight. I think the
proper advice is that this in itself may not be dangerous but it should
be replaced ASAP. BTW lots of performance studies have shown that fluid
loss at this level can lead to performance losses of 10-20% so clearly
the body is suffering at this level.
Gary

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:30:23 -0400, Bill Baka <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bob in CT said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:12:58 -0400, Bill Baka <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
>> normal?
>>
> Seems a bit high.
>
>> I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
>> (maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
>> like I need to.
> You probably don't.
>
>>
>> Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
>> become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
>> rides). This is my assumption.
> Pretty much true.
>
>>
>> Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
>> (of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.
>>
> People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Not really.
I got myself into a long ride that started off cool and then the
weather changed while I was about 35 Miles for home and no stores,
creeks, or parks with fountains on the way back. I did start with 3
water bottles but they were gone at the 35 mile turn around point and
the ride home was in increasingly warmer / hotter weather. The last
ten miles were a real slow pedaling drag and I learned not matter what
he says, "DON'T BELIEVE THE WEATHERMAN ON TELEVISION." I came back
about 8 pounds lighter for a five hour day, hiking included but no
streams.
8 out of 180 (I'm too heavy now) is still a bit of a concern.
Bill Baka

Personally, I take as much water as I can carry, as most of my ride
does not have water sources (including grocery stores, etc.).
--Bob in CT

That puts me in the Phred mode with an extra bottle strapped to my front
fork via car radiator hose clamp, other side has the speedo wires. I
also put 2 wire baskets on the back as far as they would go so my heel
didn't hit them every revolution. Those keep a 1 Gallon cooler of ice
and water in one side and an ice chest (just fits) one the other side.
That one I fill with food. I stuff my back pack or as much as I can into
the remaining space and have a garbage bag for an emergency poncho,
looks really dumb but keeps me mostly dry. I also have some food for
canned foods and tools in the rack. I drag about 40 pounds extra this
way but I am good for a full day at 100 degrees. I am not racing, just
touring so it makes a bit of difference.
Bill Baka

I use one or two bottles and a camelback (100 ounce?) filled with
water/ice, multiple bars, multiple plastic bags filled with powder
(sometimes my own concoction; other times, purchased). It's no fun being
way, way away from home with no power because you don't have anything to
eat or drink. I don't care much about speed, either. I've hit the wall
before and/or ran out of water, and let me tell you that isn't fun.

--
Bob in CT

gds said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Peter, ususally your advice is pretty good but on this I think it is
actually dangerous. Perhaps you don't have issues with dehydration,
however, it is a real and serious issue with repurcussions that involve
not only performance but health.

I live and ride in southern Arizona. We often have humidity levels of
less than 10%. In that arid condition perspiration os often evaporating
as quickly as it forms. As a result folks not used to this feel dry and
don't understand that they are losing fluids rapidly. This can be a
very dangerous situation. I have witnessed and had to deal with folks
who have dehydrated to the point of heat stroke and it is a serious
and scary condition. There is a farily rapid loss of coordination
accompanied by dizziness and cramping. This is not a good situation
while on a bike on some country road far from shade or sources of fluid
replacement.

If the OP is losing ~4 lbs that is a half gallon of water. Put another
way assume he is somewhere near "average" in body size, say 180 lbs.
then this repesents a loss of over 2% of total body weight. I think the
proper advice is that this in itself may not be dangerous but it should
be replaced ASAP. BTW lots of performance studies have shown that fluid
loss at this level can lead to performance losses of 10-20% so clearly
the body is suffering at this level.
Gary

I used to live in AZ (Mesa, Tucson). At that time, I was more into
mountain biking, but I always carried plenty of water and left water in
the vehicle for guzzling as soon as I got back. AZ is brutal, though --
it'll be over 100 when you leave in the morning and nice and hot when you
get back.

--
Bob in CT

Bob in CT said:

I used to live in AZ (Mesa, Tucson). At that time, I was more into
mountain biking, but I always carried plenty of water and left water in
the vehicle for guzzling as soon as I got back. AZ is brutal, though --
it'll be over 100 when you leave in the morning and nice and hot when you
get back.

--
Bob in CT

Funny, I don't find it nearly that hot in the morning. I understand
that the Phoenix area (Mesa) doens't cool off that much at night and
being 1000' lower than Tucson it gets bit warmer during the day.
Here in Tucson we ride regularly during the summer at 6 a.m. and the
warmest start we had this summer was 90, but that was only one day and
very unususal. Typically our summer rides start out at 6 at a temp in
the mid 70's and we can get in 25-40 miles and still come in at around
90. Warm to be sure but with acclimitization and fluids really not at
all bad.
We do have a group in town that rides and runs mid afternoon to maximze
stress training. I've done that a couple of times and can ride OK but
find I'm pretty tired the next day and it takes several hours to top up
on fluids.

gds said:

Bob in CT said:

I used to live in AZ (Mesa, Tucson). At that time, I was more into
mountain biking, but I always carried plenty of water and left water in
the vehicle for guzzling as soon as I got back. AZ is brutal, though --
it'll be over 100 when you leave in the morning and nice and hot when
you
get back.

--
Bob in CT

Funny, I don't find it nearly that hot in the morning. I understand
that the Phoenix area (Mesa) doens't cool off that much at night and
being 1000' lower than Tucson it gets bit warmer during the day.
Here in Tucson we ride regularly during the summer at 6 a.m. and the
warmest start we had this summer was 90, but that was only one day and
very unususal. Typically our summer rides start out at 6 at a temp in
the mid 70's and we can get in 25-40 miles and still come in at around
90. Warm to be sure but with acclimitization and fluids really not at
all bad.
We do have a group in town that rides and runs mid afternoon to maximze
stress training. I've done that a couple of times and can ride OK but
find I'm pretty tired the next day and it takes several hours to top up
on fluids.

You're RIDING at 6 am? I wouldn't start riding until 8-9am. I remember
days when the low was over 90. It can easily be 100 at 9am. Granted, not
many days per year at that level. My problem with AZ is that it was over
90 for highs every day for 6-7 months. That's just too hot for humankind.

--
Bob in CT

That's the nice thing about differences. Different folks like different
things. And there is no absolute right or wrong. I find a high of 90
to be perfect. I have a good friend who feels he is frying at 75.

We only start riding at 6 because it isn't light until after 5:30.
Seriously, we get in many miles before the temp goes into the high
80's. With low humididty it is really quite pleasant.

It also means that while about half of our group is retired and can go
back and nap the rest of us can get in a nice 20-30 miles and easily be
at the office before 9.

Not many late nights though ;-)

You need to determine your sweat rate. Weigh yourself before a ride.
Go for your ride, keep track how many minutes your rode, of how much
you drink, eat and/or pee (good luck figuring that one!). After your
ride, weigh yourself again. sweat rate = weight loss divided time of
ride.

I sweat just under an ounce a minute. I drink as much as I can on a
ride, and also try to take in about 250 calories per hour, any more and
I have GI problems.

Also, if you drop something like 3-4% of your body weight during a
workout, your are probably dehydrated, and have placed yourself at
risk.

Do a google search on this topic too.

gds said:

Peter Cole wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Quoted message said:

Peter, ususally your advice is pretty good but on this I think it is
actually dangerous. Perhaps you don't have issues with dehydration,
however, it is a real and serious issue with repurcussions that involve
not only performance but health.

I'll gladly second that. My father came uncomfortably close to dying
of heat stroke last summer. He was NOT exerting himself, just sitting out
in the sun, but he hadn't had anything to drink all morning.

Bill

__o |Weaning our nation from fossil fuels should be understood as
_`\(,_ |the most patriotic policy to which we can commit ourselves.
(_)/ (_) | -Robert Redford

Bob in CT said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:30:23 -0400, Bill Baka <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bob in CT said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:12:58 -0400, Bill Baka
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> Peter Cole wrote:
>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>> I find myself loosing 3-5 lbs for a 1 hour 20 mile ride. Is this
>>> normal?
>>>
>> Seems a bit high.
>>
>>> I bring one water bottle, but don't find myself drinking too much
>>> (maybe 1/4 of the bottle). It's such a short ride, it doesn't feel
>>> like I need to.
>> You probably don't.
>>
>>>
>>> Does weight loss from dehydration (and maintaining salt intake) only
>>> become an issue for long efforts (marathons, centuries, 5+ hours
>>> rides). This is my assumption.
>> Pretty much true.
>>
>>>
>>> Went on a slightly longer ride with a friend and he brought 3 bottles
>>> (of various fluids) and food. I brought just a single bottle.
>>>
>> People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.
>
> Not really.
> I got myself into a long ride that started off cool and then the
> weather changed while I was about 35 Miles for home and no stores,
> creeks, or parks with fountains on the way back. I did start with 3
> water bottles but they were gone at the 35 mile turn around point
> and the ride home was in increasingly warmer / hotter weather. The
> last ten miles were a real slow pedaling drag and I learned not
> matter what he says, "DON'T BELIEVE THE WEATHERMAN ON TELEVISION." I
> came back about 8 pounds lighter for a five hour day, hiking
> included but no streams.
> 8 out of 180 (I'm too heavy now) is still a bit of a concern.
> Bill Baka
Personally, I take as much water as I can carry, as most of my ride
does not have water sources (including grocery stores, etc.).
--Bob in CT

That puts me in the Phred mode with an extra bottle strapped to my
front fork via car radiator hose clamp, other side has the speedo
wires. I also put 2 wire baskets on the back as far as they would go
so my heel didn't hit them every revolution. Those keep a 1 Gallon
cooler of ice and water in one side and an ice chest (just fits) one
the other side. That one I fill with food. I stuff my back pack or as
much as I can into the remaining space and have a garbage bag for an
emergency poncho, looks really dumb but keeps me mostly dry. I also
have some food for canned foods and tools in the rack. I drag about 40
pounds extra this way but I am good for a full day at 100 degrees. I
am not racing, just touring so it makes a bit of difference.
Bill Baka

I use one or two bottles and a camelback (100 ounce?) filled with
water/ice, multiple bars, multiple plastic bags filled with powder
(sometimes my own concoction; other times, purchased). It's no fun
being way, way away from home with no power because you don't have
anything to eat or drink. I don't care much about speed, either. I've
hit the wall before and/or ran out of water, and let me tell you that
isn't fun.

--Bob in CT

Yeah, I can relate to being too far from home and out in vulture
territory. I go for the ride and not the speed and on a MTB so you never
know where I may wind up. Just betting there and finding no water is a drag.
Bill Baka

Bob in CT said:

gds said:

Peter Cole said:

>
People take the risk of dehydration way too seriously.

Peter, ususally your advice is pretty good but on this I think it is
actually dangerous. Perhaps you don't have issues with dehydration,
however, it is a real and serious issue with repurcussions that involve
not only performance but health.

I live and ride in southern Arizona. We often have humidity levels of
less than 10%. In that arid condition perspiration os often evaporating
as quickly as it forms. As a result folks not used to this feel dry and
don't understand that they are losing fluids rapidly. This can be a
very dangerous situation. I have witnessed and had to deal with folks
who have dehydrated to the point of heat stroke and it is a serious
and scary condition. There is a farily rapid loss of coordination
accompanied by dizziness and cramping. This is not a good situation
while on a bike on some country road far from shade or sources of fluid
replacement.

If the OP is losing ~4 lbs that is a half gallon of water. Put another
way assume he is somewhere near "average" in body size, say 180 lbs.
then this repesents a loss of over 2% of total body weight. I think the
proper advice is that this in itself may not be dangerous but it should
be replaced ASAP. BTW lots of performance studies have shown that fluid
loss at this level can lead to performance losses of 10-20% so clearly
the body is suffering at this level.
Gary

I used to live in AZ (Mesa, Tucson). At that time, I was more into
mountain biking, but I always carried plenty of water and left water in
the vehicle for guzzling as soon as I got back. AZ is brutal, though --
it'll be over 100 when you leave in the morning and nice and hot when
you get back.

--Bob in CT

I can attest for that. My sister lives near Phoenix in Sun City, and she
says it was sure named right. It is a retirement community but she says
it is too damned hot to do anything after about 8 in the morning. Even
in the winter she has seen 100 degree days. She gets out and gets her
exercise from about 4:30 A.M. to maybe 9:00 P.M. (and that is stretching
it in the summer) then goes back inside to see what she can do in the
cool. She just hiked the Grand Canyon and said that 80 was freezing by
comparison. Even walking during the day she takes water with her and she
lives in the city.
Some hot is too hot.
Bill Baka

Bob in CT said:

gds said:

Bob in CT said:

I used to live in AZ (Mesa, Tucson). At that time, I was more into
mountain biking, but I always carried plenty of water and left water in
the vehicle for guzzling as soon as I got back. AZ is brutal, though --
it'll be over 100 when you leave in the morning and nice and hot when
you
get back.

--
Bob in CT

Funny, I don't find it nearly that hot in the morning. I understand
that the Phoenix area (Mesa) doens't cool off that much at night and
being 1000' lower than Tucson it gets bit warmer during the day.
Here in Tucson we ride regularly during the summer at 6 a.m. and the
warmest start we had this summer was 90, but that was only one day and
very unususal. Typically our summer rides start out at 6 at a temp in
the mid 70's and we can get in 25-40 miles and still come in at around
90. Warm to be sure but with acclimitization and fluids really not at
all bad.
We do have a group in town that rides and runs mid afternoon to maximze
stress training. I've done that a couple of times and can ride OK but
find I'm pretty tired the next day and it takes several hours to top up
on fluids.

You're RIDING at 6 am? I wouldn't start riding until 8-9am. I remember
days when the low was over 90. It can easily be 100 at 9am. Granted,
not many days per year at that level. My problem with AZ is that it was
over 90 for highs every day for 6-7 months. That's just too hot for
humankind.

--Bob in CT

I started a ride here last week at 5:30 and by 9:00 it was getting hot
enough to abandon to a nice air conditioned computer room. Once the sun
comes up the temperature seems to go near vertical in some areas.
Bill Baka