Waving Landis on -- a set-up?

I think you're fantasizing ...... that would imply Lance was setting Floyd
up .... he's not that kind of a person ..... and he doesn't need to be .....
because he's the best. Get real.
"Leslie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm a Lance fan -- and I don't think he is either god or the devil.
Can't be easy to be all things to all people, I don't think.

A question about the Lance/Landis situation on stage 17: It occurred
to me that if I were Lance and I truly wanted Landis to get a stage
win, I'd quietly talk to Landis, develop a plan, ride along
unconcernedly for a few K's, and then let Landis attack whenever
Landis thought the time was right.

As it was, with Lance having that public chat with Landis, putting his
hand on Landis's shoulder, with Ullrich right behind them -- and
Ullrich is one savvy rider -- don't you think that's just like waving
the "go" flag to Ullrich?

Just seems that there are many more ways for Lance to set Landis up
for a stage win. The way it happened sure took some wind out of
Ullrich.

Hmmmmmm . . . a USPS set-up?

What do you all think?

Leslie

Proves how little you know about the individulas involved. A couple of facts

1) Landis is one of the best decenders in the Pelton
2) Ullrich is a girlie-man decender

Frankly I was rather suprised Ullrich was able to catch him.
Lance should of ordered an attack by Floyd with about 1KM left in the climb.
Lance could of slowed down the chase up the remaining 1KM and Landis could of
used his decending skills to open up a nice little gap.

(Leslie) said:

I'm a Lance fan -- and I don't think he is either god or the devil.
Can't be easy to be all things to all people, I don't think.

A question about the Lance/Landis situation on stage 17: It occurred
to me that if I were Lance and I truly wanted Landis to get a stage
win, I'd quietly talk to Landis, develop a plan, ride along
unconcernedly for a few K's, and then let Landis attack whenever
Landis thought the time was right.

As it was, with Lance having that public chat with Landis, putting his
hand on Landis's shoulder, with Ullrich right behind them -- and
Ullrich is one savvy rider -- don't you think that's just like waving
the "go" flag to Ullrich?

Just seems that there are many more ways for Lance to set Landis up
for a stage win. The way it happened sure took some wind out of
Ullrich.

Hmmmmmm . . . a USPS set-up?

What do you all think?

Leslie

Leslie said:

A question about the Lance/Landis situation on stage 17: It occurred
to me that if I were Lance and I truly wanted Landis to get a stage
win, I'd quietly talk to Landis, develop a plan, ride along
unconcernedly for a few K's, and then let Landis attack whenever
Landis thought the time was right.

Quoted message said:

Hmmmmmm . . . a USPS set-up?

I was thinking the same thing, actually. Have Landis attack so the other
three would start to chase, letting LA position himself for the final
strike. He may be petty, but he's no dummy, and strategy evidently extends
right down to how to play the last few turns of the stage, just like a
play in football (I'm thinking of those diagrams you see with the coach
explaining how the play will unfold. I'll bet there were diagrams of this
sort, for at least some of the finishes, sketched out in the USPS bus...)
A similar calculation was evident in the finish of stage 15, although it
did not involve a second USPS rider in that case. This sort of thing is
critical, and goes down right under the noses of the commentators.

Just my humble opinion...

-AMG

On 23 Jul 2004 16:40:07 -0700, [email hidden] (Leslie)

Quoted message said:

As it was, with Lance having that public chat with Landis, putting his
hand on Landis's shoulder, with Ullrich right behind them -- and
Ullrich is one savvy rider -- don't you think that's just like waving
the "go" flag to Ullrich?

i think Lance is aware that on a sprint Ullrich would beat Landis. On
the other hand, Landis is good a going down hill. Unfortunately, so
is Ullirch and he chased Landis down. So much for that plan. Plan B
was Lance wins.

Shrek <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Proves how little you know about the individulas involved. A couple of
facts

1) Landis is one of the best decenders in the Pelton
2) Ullrich is a girlie-man decender

Frankly I was rather suprised Ullrich was able to catch him.

If the first two statements were true, how do you explain the last one?
Maybe they are both just *average* (by TDF standards) decenders.

- Boyd S.

Jack Hollis <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 23 Jul 2004 16:40:07 -0700, [email hidden] (Leslie)
wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

i think Lance is aware that on a sprint Ullrich would beat Landis. On
the other hand, Landis is good a going down hill. Unfortunately, so
is Ullirch and he chased Landis down. So much for that plan. Plan B
was Lance wins.

Bingo.
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Kloden and
Landis been marking each other and Lance and Jan marking each other.. instead
of the opposite match up.

I think it would have been a lot closer, but Lance still would probably have
won.

- Boyd S.

in article [email hidden], AMG at
[email hidden] wrote on 7/23/04 6:48 PM:

Quoted message said:

Leslie said:

A question about the Lance/Landis situation on stage 17: It occurred
to me that if I were Lance and I truly wanted Landis to get a stage
win, I'd quietly talk to Landis, develop a plan, ride along
unconcernedly for a few K's, and then let Landis attack whenever
Landis thought the time was right.

Quoted message said:

Hmmmmmm . . . a USPS set-up?

I was thinking the same thing, actually. Have Landis attack so the other
three would start to chase, letting LA position himself for the final
strike. He may be petty, but he's no dummy, and strategy evidently extends
right down to how to play the last few turns of the stage, just like a
play in football (I'm thinking of those diagrams you see with the coach
explaining how the play will unfold. I'll bet there were diagrams of this
sort, for at least some of the finishes, sketched out in the USPS bus...)
A similar calculation was evident in the finish of stage 15, although it
did not involve a second USPS rider in that case. This sort of thing is
critical, and goes down right under the noses of the commentators.

Just my humble opinion...

-AMG

No, no, no! If Lance had REALLY wanted Landis to win, he would have
attacked himself, then let Floyd counter!!!

-Sonarrat.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Shrek said:

Proves how little you know about the individulas involved. A couple of facts

1) Landis is one of the best decenders in the Pelton
2) Ullrich is a girlie-man decender

Hmmm, judging by his post-race comments on OLN, LANCE doesn't think so
(regarding Ullrich).

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Shrek said:

Proves how little you know about the individulas involved. A couple of facts

1) Landis is one of the best decenders in the Pelton
2) Ullrich is a girlie-man decender

Frankly I was rather suprised Ullrich was able to catch him.
Lance should of ordered an attack by Floyd with about 1KM left in the climb.
Lance could of slowed down the chase up the remaining 1KM and Landis could of
used his decending skills to open up a nice little gap.

Lance said afterward that Jan descends very fast, and he caught Floyd.
Could it be that Jan's well-known descent mishaps are due to his pushing
the envelope too far?

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

Sonarrat said:

No, no, no! If Lance had REALLY wanted Landis to win, he would have
attacked himself, then let Floyd counter!!!

-Sonarrat.

That's what I would've done. It's been successful in every one of my
teammate's wins (all virtual). But it's also what Erik Dekker would've
done. Two teammates attack in succession until the other riders cry
uncle. Maybe Lance wasn't so committed to a win by Floyd that he'd
sacrifice the energy.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"