water proof jackets

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Me, I'm a fair-ish weather walker (day walks only), so I'd rather have
something lighter I can pack. If it's absolutely p1$$ing down,
horizontal, nothing is going to keep you dry, so I'll crack a bottle of
wine, put my feet up, and watch the storm roll over my conservatory from
the general direction of mid-Wales. Now going out in a snowstorm I rate
as pretty good fun, but rain+gales you can keep.

Sorry to pick holes, but having walked and cycled in torrential rain, I
have found that a couple of jackets have kept me pretty much warm, the
one worthy of mention is the Vaude Escape jacket. Its 75 quid RRP, about
500 gms, and packs small. I was walking in rain so hard my back pack
flooded, but the only part of me that got wet under the jacket was a
small trickle at the front below the chin.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks

Adrian Godwin said:

I've read that goretex doesn't like to be folded up tightly, which
implies that keeping it rolled up in the sac would also contribute
to wear (though maybe not as much as using it).

My jacket is Triple Point Ceramic, which being an elastomer coating
wouldn't suffer so much so I can't really tell you. Ask Gore or the
jacket manufacturer, and see what they say. Doesn't bode too well for
Goretex tents if it's true though...

Pete.
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Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
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"Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Treefrog <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Boundary Mill in Lancashire (Colne) sell Lowe Alpine stuff really

cheap...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last January I got a Lowe Foraker for (£123, RRP is £180). That's been

out

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the worst winter conditions I've ever been in and I was bone dry (and
warm-ish). Too expensive? About 6 months ago I also bought a lightweight
lowe waterproof outer, it's like a gore paclite equivilent. £27! RRP is

£70.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A friend was lucky enough to be in the shop when they announced and extra
10% off and got his for £23.

Hmmm, I didn't realise they sold decent outdoor labels there.

They don't really, just Lowe Alpine. Also Tog24, but I haven't heard many
(i.e. none) rave reviews about tog24 gear out on the mountains....
Last winter they had a pretty big section dedicated to outdoor gear (mainly
Lowe) but now it's just a small corner; shame. Still, some reasonable deals
to be had at the moment but might be wroth waiting a few months if last year
is anything to go by.

Nathan

Precisely my sentiments see my message above.
I think we are all getting wrapped up in the techy talk and not demanding
more from the manufacturers.
They simply do not keep you dry, you can pay £20 or £200 you get just as wet
but dont look as trendy
with the less fashionable job.

John

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"Malcolm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Hi I'm new to this forum and getting drawn to more dramatic scenery
than in the south east. In June I got totally drenched on Great Gable
- twice. I was so wet I had to wring out my fleece. I was wearing a
Millets "waterproof breathable" Peter storm Jacket which had been
washed and reproofed twice. The man in the local shop said really
there is no such thing as a waterproof breathable jacket and that no
one was coming off the hills dry that day. I've been saving up and i'm
now wondering what the compromise is. I don't mind getting a bit damp
but surely i can do better than that. Should I go for a simple PVC
totally water proof jacket and accept the sauna conditions; a
relatively cheap option. I haven't found any with good hoods, wired
peak, storm flaps velcro cuffs etc. I've been thinking of Berghaus
gortex cornice jackets; fragile and may be not long-lived. Is it worth
stretching to a Paramo jacket. Many seem to say they are good and will
last a long time, have a lifetime guarantee and are reproofable. I'm
prepared to invest in something if it really works. I've seen the
discussion "Who pays these prices" so now I'm unsure what to do.

D Freeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Malcolm said:

Hi I'm new to this forum and getting drawn to more dramatic scenery
than in the south east.

Quoted message said:

Ultimately tho, you need to remember two things:

* There is no such thing as dry, only varying degrees of damp
* The difference between damp and moist, is weather or not your enjoying
it :p

HTH.

Thanks

K

Thanks for all the comments. I agree completely with this last
comment. Whilst being drenched I was really enjoying the walks. The
water in the wet suit had warmed up and everything was great; apart
for the occasional influx from under the sack straps. I have found a
sprayway goretex XCR for £120 reduced from £200. (mountain warehouse
covent garden) It was the best deal I found on the day and I think
its got what i want for what i can spend. I was tending towards paramo
due to it's boasted resistance to puncture damage c.f. goretex.
However, quite a few people are saying that with care goertex should
last along time. That's my choice anyway. BTW, My cheap'o pair of
Millets hightec boots did great over the four days. (G/Gable x2,
Scarfell pike, Hellvelyn) No blisters!! But they leaked too!!
Regards Malcolm

Malcolm said:

...................................... I have found a
sprayway goretex XCR for £120 reduced from £200. .....
However, quite a few people are saying that with care goertex should
last along time.

Dig out the fairly recent issue of TGO magazine where Chris Townsend wrote
extensively on the correct care of Goretex and related fabrics.

The main issues seem to be correct washing (pure soap, not usual washing
powder, seems to be essential), and keeping the proofing agent intact on the
outer surface so that water runs off in beads (if the fabric soaks, then the
breathability cannot work).

Quoted message said:

That's my choice anyway. BTW, My cheap'o pair of
Millets hightec boots did great over the four days. (G/Gable x2,
Scarfell pike, Hellvelyn) No blisters!! But they leaked too!!

If the boots fit and are comfortable, they are good boots for your feet.
Consider "Seal Skin" socks to keep your feet dry if its an issue for you.

- Nigel

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<snip>

Quoted message said:

If it's absolutely p1$$ing down,
horizontal, nothing is going to keep you dry, so I'll crack a bottle of
wine, put my feet up, and watch the storm roll over my conservatory from
the general direction of mid-Wales. Now going out in a snowstorm I rate
as pretty good fun, but rain+gales you can keep.

That brings to mind my trip up Aonach Mor and Aonach Beag in May which was
in gale force winds (60mph+) and continuous heavy rain. It was a bit
miserable but my Paramo Velez smock and Cascada trousers kept me bone dry.

Jiffy

John Myers said:

I think we are all getting wrapped up in the techy talk and not demanding
more from the manufacturers.

If Brand X Clothing Company /could/ make a jacket that would keep you
completely dry while you were out for a brisk walk, don't you think they
would do that? Especially given that they'd clean up in the waterproofs
market against all their opposition?

It's "easy" to make a completely waterproof suit. Go in to paddling
supplier and check out drysuits, which are what they say. Ignore the
£350 price tag for now and try one on. This is what you need to stay
completely dry. Fancy going for a walk in it? I wouldn't!

Quoted message said:

They simply do not keep you dry, you can pay £20 or £200 you get just as wet

This is simply not true. If you really think a £20 coat will protect
you from gale driven sleet as well as a good mountain waterproof then
you're either kidding yourself or buy from the Emperor's New Clothes
company.

Quoted message said:

but dont look as trendy with the less fashionable job.

My mountain waterproofs don't look trendy and aren't especially
fashionable, AFAICT. They keep out the weather reasonably well while
letting me do things like walk, scramble and ski though.

Wanting better is natural and reasonable, but assuming that just
demanding better will suddenly transform waterproofs is ridiculous.
They're doing the best they can. That marketing departments make that
out to be better than they actually achieve is hardly the fault of the
designers of the textile engineers.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Boundary Mill in Lancashire (Colne) sell Lowe Alpine stuff really cheap...
Last January I got a Lowe Foraker for (£123, RRP is £180). That's been out
in the worst winter conditions I've ever been in and I was bone dry (and
warm-ish). Too expensive? About 6 months ago I also bought a lightweight
lowe waterproof outer, it's like a gore paclite equivilent. £27! RRP is £70.
A friend was lucky enough to be in the shop when they announced and extra
10% off and got his for £23.

I buy Lowe stuff at Boundary Mill - dry-flo T-shirts, jackets, etc.
My folks live nearby, so I pop over to Boundary Mill whenever I'm up
there. As well as being much cheaper than the RRP, they also have
fairly regular 'sale' weekends, with 10-30% (sometimes more) extra
off. I got my Lowe triple-point ceramic mountain cap for £5 during
such an event.

Also nearby is Winfields (Haslingden). They have some outdoor gear -
not sure what brands exactly, but I know they do Crag Hopper and Vango
stuff among others. Also camping and hiking accessories, and those
Wayfarer trekking meals etc. All much cheaper than the RRP.

Michael S

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:49:05 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip> loadsa stuff from Pete thst I totally agree with... except
350ukp for a dry suit? Pshaw, that's a cheapie!! ;-)

Quoted message said:

Wanting better is natural and reasonable, but assuming that just
demanding better will suddenly transform waterproofs is ridiculous.
They're doing the best they can.

I snipped stuff earlier just to avoid saying "I completely agree",
this time I want to say the same again... but I do have something to
add ;-)

The designer from Montane occasionally gets out climbing with our club
(and did so last week). She is _always_ interested in feedback and,
tbh, is more interested in negative feedback than positive. The latest
we were able to give her related to the SuperFly and unfortunately
we'd been beaten to it ;-) because the modifications we could come up
with are already desgined into the "MkII" which is due out now
(changes mooted were; hood big enough to wear a helmet under and a
heavier duty zip for long-life "confidence"😉.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

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"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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John Myers said:

I think we are all getting wrapped up in the techy talk and not demanding
more from the manufacturers.

If Brand X Clothing Company /could/ make a jacket that would keep you
completely dry while you were out for a brisk walk, don't you think they
would do that? Especially given that they'd clean up in the waterproofs
market against all their opposition?

Thats fine as long as they stop making silly claims for there garments, im
all for that.
You tell me (100% waterproof breathable garment, you will get wet of that
there is no doubt)

It's "easy" to make a completely waterproof suit. Go in to paddling
supplier and check out drysuits, which are what they say. Ignore the
£350 price tag for now and try one on. This is what you need to stay
completely dry. Fancy going for a walk in it? I wouldn't!

Quoted message said:

They simply do not keep you dry, you can pay £20 or £200 you get just as

wet

This is simply not true. If you really think a £20 coat will protect
you from gale driven sleet as well as a good mountain waterproof then
you're either kidding yourself or buy from the Emperor's New Clothes
company.

You tell me how many degrees of wet is there,?

Quoted message said:

but dont look as trendy with the less fashionable job.

My mountain waterproofs don't look trendy and aren't especially
fashionable, AFAICT. They keep out the weather reasonably well while
letting me do things like walk, scramble and ski though.

Wanting better is natural and reasonable, but assuming that just
demanding better will suddenly transform waterproofs is ridiculous.

No its not, if everone who has a nice flash jacket took it back evertime
they get wet, and voted with there feet, quality would certainly improve, it
does in my industry any way. The customer is always right !

They're doing the best they can.

Well they aren't listening to there customers, cos the customers like you
aren't saying anything.

That marketing departments make that out to be better than they actually
achieve is hardly the fault of the
designers of the textile engineers..
Whos fault is it then!

John

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/