Vodka sauce question.

Rodney Myrvaagnes said:

The study in question is by J. Augustin, E. Augustin, R. Cutrufelli,
S. Hagen, and C. Teitzel in "Alcohol retention in food preparation," Journal Of The American
Dietetic Association, Vol 92, No. 4, April 1992. ***************end of paste

It doesn't sound worth looking for, if it doesn't identify starting points, or is the above
referring to a different paper?

The study used to be available online; it no longer is. From what I remember of it, it used
scientific methods, meaning all the necessary measurements, starting and otherwise, were done. Real-
life recipes were used, one of them by Escoffier, IIRC.

Victor

Richard Periut <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

blake murphy <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 06:11:58 GMT, Wayne Boatwright <[email hidden]> wrote:

>About the only way I can enjoy vodka is in a spicy bloody

mary

Quoted message said:

>or in orange or grapefruit juice.

>Wayne

give it a whack with pineapple juice sometime.

your pal, blake

Actually, I have, and it's good. Thanks, Blake. I just need something to mix it with that
overpowers the "rubbing alcohol" flavor. <G>

Wayne

Actually,if you ever tasted Gray Goose or Ketel One, or any of the premium vodkas, take it
straight and very chilled, you'll pick up certain nuances and it shouldn't taste like rubbing
ETOH. I've had Stoli, and IMO, doesn't come close to the aforementioned ones. Absolut is not bad,
Chopin and Belvedere are also excellent.

Want to make it interesting, add some allspice and cloves to it; you can experiment with other
spices. It's like plain rice, by itself it really tastes bland. But combine it with sacues,
cheese, et cetera, and you have a base on which to build a mountain of recipes.

Rich

Admittedly, I have never tried anything but Stoli and some lesser brands, so will certainly take
your comments and suggestions under advisement. None I've tried were flavored, and the Stoli was
taken directly from the freezer, plain.

The spice additions do sound interesting.

Thanks, Wayne

Wayne Boatwright said:

Richard Periut <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Want to make it interesting, add some allspice and cloves to it; you can experiment with other
spices. It's like plain rice, by itself it really tastes bland. But combine it with sacues,
cheese, et cetera, and you have a base on which to build a mountain of recipes.

Rich

Admittedly, I have never tried anything but Stoli and some lesser brands, so will certainly take
your comments and suggestions under advisement. None I've tried were flavored, and the Stoli was
taken directly from the freezer, plain.

The spice additions do sound interesting.

For this past X_mas, I made 5 different infused vodkas. I used bottom of the line stuff because it's
all either grain neutral spirits filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out of it
or potato or other alcohol filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out of it - and
then diluted with water to standard proof ratings. I kept a wide range of vodkas in my bars and
restaurants and through a long string of blind taste tests, nobody ever identified their favorites
compared to others more and less expensive.

Anyway, I infused vodka separately with lemon, orange and lime peels. Also hot peppers (habs and
others) and pomegranate seeds.

They're all wonderful. Much more strongly flavored than the commercial stuff. The hot pepper vodka
is a killer. Add to bloody mary with a dash of lemon vodka. WOW> The orange with a dash of Grand
Marnier is stunning. The lime added to a margarita made with dark tequila is amazing. Pomegranate
and cassis in champagne is sparkling (sorry).

Pastorio

Bob said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

Richard Periut <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Want to make it interesting, add some allspice and cloves to it; you can experiment with other
spices. It's like plain rice, by itself it really tastes bland. But combine it with sacues,
cheese, et cetera, and you have a base on which to build a mountain of recipes.

Rich

Admittedly, I have never tried anything but Stoli and some lesser brands, so will certainly take
your comments and suggestions under advisement. None I've tried were flavored, and the Stoli was
taken directly from the freezer, plain. The spice additions do sound interesting.

For this past X_mas, I made 5 different infused vodkas. I used bottom of the line stuff because
it's all either grain neutral spirits filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out
of it or potato or other alcohol filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out of it
- and then diluted with water to standard proof ratings. I kept a wide range of vodkas in my bars
and restaurants and through a long string of blind taste tests, nobody ever identified their
favorites compared to others more and less expensive.

You chill Gray Goose and Ketel One, along with others, and I and other people that I know will
distinguish them apart.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I infused vodka separately with lemon, orange and lime peels. Also hot peppers (habs and
others) and pomegranate seeds.

They're all wonderful. Much more strongly flavored than the commercial stuff. The hot pepper vodka
is a killer. Add to bloody mary with a dash of lemon vodka. WOW> The orange with a dash of Grand
Marnier is stunning. The lime added to a margarita made with dark tequila is amazing.

All that is great, when you are using cheap vodka and tequila. I myself enjoy Sotol Reposado from
Chihuahua, Mexico--it's similar to a tequila but not quite, because it's not made from the blue
agave as tequila is, but rather, from a similar species which is native only to Chihuahua--See:
nightclub.comspirits.htmlOpen ↗

. These are to be consumed neat; for mixing them is to destroy the subtle nuances which
they exhibit.

Rich

Pomegranate and cassis in champagne is sparkling (sorry).

Quoted message said:

Pastorio

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

Victor Sack said:

Rodney Myrvaagnes said:

The study in question is by J. Augustin, E. Augustin, R. Cutrufelli, S. Hagen, and C. Teitzel in
"Alcohol retention in food preparation," Journal Of The American Dietetic Association, Vol 92,
No. 4, April 1992. ***************end of paste

It doesn't sound worth looking for, if it doesn't identify starting points, or is the above
referring to a different paper?

The study used to be available online; it no longer is. From what I remember of it, it used
scientific methods, meaning all the necessary measurements, starting and otherwise, were done. Real-
life recipes were used, one of them by Escoffier, IIRC.

"All the necessary measurements" is not easily compatible with "real life recipes".

Alcohol/water mixtures boil fairly predictably, the boiling temperature and the vapor mix are
tightly dependent on the proportions in the liquid. Unless some separation technique is occurring
(an oddly shaped pan lid or fortunate configuration of an aluminum foil cover is acting as a reflux
head) the amount of alcohol remaining should be perfectly predicted by the percentage of alcohol at
the start, and the percentage of liquid boiled away (or remaining). ANY cooking method that cooks
off at least half the liquid will essentially eliminate the alcohol. Conversely, a cooking method
that retains all of the liquid should fail to eliminate much of the alcohol. The referenced study
identified neither the starting percentage of alcohol nor the proportinon of liquid evaporated
during the cooking.

Martin
--
Martin Golding | Anyone who eats three meals a day should understand

Richard Periut said:

2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.

OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

nb

notbob said:

Richard Periut said:

2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.

OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

It's French for HTML.

Bob

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

notbob said:

Richard Periut said:

2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.

OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

It's French for HTML.

Bob

Oh... Then those aren't Ethel's web pages?

Wayne

Wayne Boatwright said:

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

notbob wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email hidden]> wrote:

>2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.

OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

It's French for HTML.

Bob

Oh... Then those aren't Ethel's web pages?

Good eye. They USED to be Ethel's.

Oh, and she changed the spelling now that she works at Hooter's. It's Ethyl.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

notbob wrote:

Quoted message said:

>On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>>volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.
>
>OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

It's French for HTML.

Bob

Oh... Then those aren't Ethel's web pages?

Good eye. They USED to be Ethel's.

Oh, and she changed the spelling now that she works at Hooter's. It's Ethyl.

Pastorio

Heh heh!

Martin Golding said:

Victor Sack said:

Rodney Myrvaagnes said:

The study in question is by J. Augustin, E. Augustin, R. Cutrufelli, S. Hagen, and C. Teitzel
in "Alcohol retention in food preparation," Journal Of The American Dietetic Association, Vol
92, No. 4, April 1992. ***************end of paste

It doesn't sound worth looking for, if it doesn't identify starting points, or is the above
referring to a different paper?

The study used to be available online; it no longer is. From what I remember of it, it used
scientific methods, meaning all the necessary measurements, starting and otherwise, were done.
Real-life recipes were used, one of them by Escoffier, IIRC.

"All the necessary measurements" is not easily compatible with "real life recipes".

Alcohol/water mixtures boil fairly predictably, the boiling temperature and the vapor mix are
tightly dependent on the proportions in the liquid. Unless some separation technique is occurring
(an oddly shaped pan lid or fortunate configuration of an aluminum foil cover is acting as a
reflux head) the amount of alcohol remaining should be perfectly predicted by the percentage of
alcohol at the start, and the percentage of liquid boiled away (or remaining). ANY cooking method
that cooks off at least half the liquid will essentially eliminate the alcohol.

So, if you boil some wine until half of it is cooked off, all the alcohol is eliminated?

Quoted message said:

Conversely, a cooking method that retains all of the liquid should fail to eliminate much of the
alcohol. The referenced study identified neither the starting percentage of alcohol nor the
proportinon of liquid evaporated during the cooking.

Do you have an access to the study, or do you go by memory? I seem to remember - and my memory is
notoriously unreliable - that those percentages were identified...

Victor

notbob said:

Richard Periut said:

2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.

OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

nb

Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

Rich

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

Richard Periut said:

notbob said:

Richard Periut said:

2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.

OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

nb

Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

I like my answer better. Wildly inaccurate, but still better... <g>

Pastorio

Richard Periut said:

Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

That's one of the lamest acronyms ever. Who comes up with this [censored]?

Help stamp out senseless acronyms. Join [censored]!

-Curmudgeons for the Reduction of Acronym Propagation

nb

notbob said:

Richard Periut said:

Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

That's one of the lamest acronyms ever. Who comes up with this [censored]?

Help stamp out senseless acronyms. Join [censored]!

-Curmudgeons for the Reduction of Acronym Propagation

nb

(laugh!) I'm in, where do I send the membership dues?

nancy

Nancy Young said:

(laugh!) I'm in, where do I send the membership dues?

No membership, but feel free to send dues. 🙂

nb

Rodney Myrvaagnes <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I first saw it on a menu in Quebec City in 1965. I didn't order it because it didn't make sense to
me. The subsequent discussions on this group lead me to think of trying it sometime.

I don't believe, without further evidence, that a large fraction of the alcohol remains after
cooking. If that were true, stills wouldn't work in a reasonable period of time.

I had some jarred vodka tomato sauce from Trader Joe's that was definitely potent!

Karen

notbob said:

Richard Periut said:

Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

That's one of the lamest acronyms ever. Who comes up with this [censored]?

Help stamp out senseless acronyms. Join [censored]!

-Curmudgeons for the Reduction of Acronym Propagation

nb

there's always SEA (society to eliminate acronyms).

your pal, blake