Using power for racing

AndROOb said:

For example, if within my warm-up I do 15 minutes at L4, and then ride a 25 mile TT, would I have to ride at a power that is sustainable for ~75 minutes, rather than 60 minutes?

I would say yes, since the warmup is certainly impacting the glycogen quantities available during the TT. What does the science say is the benefit of doing 15 minutes of L4 in prep for a 1hr TT? Is there some enzyme production that more than offsets the energy depletion during this time? Anyone have a link?

AndROOb said:

As far as the scientific aspect is applicable, how much does intensive warm-up work(L4-L5) start to burn away at your usable power?

For example, if within my warm-up I do 15 minutes at L4, and then ride a 25 mile TT, would I have to ride at a power that is sustainable for ~75 minutes, rather than 60 minutes?

I agree with frenchy. I think a warmup serves only one physiological role -- to gradually warm up the muscles to avoid injury from high intensity efforts with cold muscles. This can be accomplished with a very modest warmup power (e.g., 50%FT) and a short duration. I think warmups at intensities at or near L4 directly compromises one's max power for the TT duration. As to the psychological role a warmup plays, I understand it has value to some, but I guess I don't quite get it. I have confidence that I can ride at a given power for the required duration (e.g., 1 hr) because I have done it on training rides, not because I can warmup for 1/2 hour at that power.

RapDaddyo said:

I agree with frenchy. I think a warmup serves only one physiological role -- to gradually warm up the muscles to avoid injury from high intensity efforts with cold muscles. This can be accomplished with a very modest warmup power (e.g., 50%FT) and a short duration. I think warmups at intensities at or near L4 directly compromises one's max power for the TT duration. As to the psychological role a warmup plays, I understand it has value to some, but I guess I don't quite get it. I have confidence that I can ride at a given power for the required duration (e.g., 1 hr) because I have done it on training rides, not because I can warmup for 1/2 hour at that power.

I am a little different I guess. If I do not get the high intensity bits into my warm-up I find it hard if not impossible for me to hold FT for even a few minutes. My legs start to burn and they don't want to turn over.

PSUcycling said:

I am a little different I guess. If I do not get the high intensity bits into my warm-up I find it hard if not impossible for me to hold FT for even a few minutes. My legs start to burn and they don't want to turn over.

Interesting. How much do you warm up or ride before an FT interval or interval set, say, 2x20s?

PSUcycling said:

I am a little different I guess. If I do not get the high intensity bits into my warm-up I find it hard if not impossible for me to hold FT for even a few minutes. My legs start to burn and they don't want to turn over.

I used to think the same thing. Now I just accept that the first few minutes at FT are going to hurt, and I mine as well do them as part of an interval and get things over with.

RapDaddyo said:

Interesting. How much do you warm up or ride before an FT interval or interval set, say, 2x20s?

I try to train like I race, so that race day, I have a routine that works.

I did 3x10 on the TT rig yesterday, the only difference is that I'm not quite as strict about getting a certian amount of time in each zone. I got about 1hr warm up (partially because it was a 3hr ride, and I didn't want to have to ride for 2 hrs after my intervals.

I just ride real easy for 15-20 mins, and then start adding intensity slowly but for random amounts of time, somewhere between 30s and 3mins. I do that until I find myself riding at my interval pace. then i just cool down for a few secs and hit it.

whoawhoa said:

I used to think the same thing. Now I just accept that the first few minutes at FT are going to hurt, and I mine as well do them as part of an interval and get things over with.

I thought that, hurting for the first 10mins was just part of it. But I find that with the right warm-up I feel strong/good from the beginning, and my heart rate doesn't skyrocket as much. Don't get me wrong, I know how to suffer, but I just try to maximize every area that is possible.

PSUcycling said:

I thought that, hurting for the first 10mins was just part of it. But I find that with the right warm-up I feel strong/good from the beginning, and my heart rate doesn't skyrocket as much. Don't get me wrong, I know how to suffer, but I just try to maximize every area that is possible.

Again, our experiences are similar. I find that the first 5 minutes spent around FT tend to hurt. It's our philosphies that are different: I prefer to get that few minutes over with as part of the interval, rather than suffering during my warm up.

RapDaddyo said:

I think a warmup serves only one physiological role -- to gradually warm up the muscles to avoid injury from high intensity efforts with cold muscles.

From my readings on distance running, I had heard that there was another physiological benefit (explained below) but I'd love to have someone with more knowledge suppport or refute it.

With the three systems that produce ATP, 2 burn sugar (fast) and only one can burn fat (aerobic but relatively slow). All three systems are active all the time, just to varying degrees depending on how urgently the energy production is needed.

Aerobic energy production from fat is virtually an endless supply. In the blood, muscles and liver only approximately 1 hour of glycogen can be stored (assuming no replacement from energy drinks, gels, etc. during the effort).

However, it takes the aerobic system a warm up period before it begins to use more fat than sugar (I've been told about 15 min). Meaning any energy production early in an intense effort will burn more sugar and produce more lactate than the same effort after the warm up.

Again it would depend on the length of the race, but if it's long enough to significantly deplete glycogen stores, one should ease into the effort or have a proper warm up to save glycogen. For a shorter duration, there may still be a warm up benefit of lessening the amount of lactate pumped into the blood stream in the early part of the effort perhaps allowing one to go harder later without hitting a lactate level that begins to inhibit muscle contaction.

Someone please educate me! I base my warm ups on the assumptions above so I'd love to understand how much of it is physiologically sound and how much is [censored].

Pad

padawan said:

it takes the aerobic system a warm up period before it begins to use more fat than sugar (I've been told about 15 min). Meaning any energy production early in an intense effort will burn more sugar and produce more lactate than the same effort after the warm up.

Depending on the warmup power, there could be a tradeoff between the energy supply benefit of a longer warmup and the adverse consequences of a long warmup on the max sustainable power for the event. Take, for example, the 1 hr warmup that PSUCycling uses for a 1 hr TT. In my case, my 2-hr MP is ~93-95% of my 1-hr MP. If I warmup for an hour at 83%FT, I begin to compromise my MP for the TT itself. Above 83%FT, my TT becomes increasingly compromised. Below 83%FT, it is increasingly less compromised and below 75% it's probably irrelevant. Now, as described it doesn't sound as though PSUCycling's 1 hr warmup is as high as 83%FT, but my point is that the MP/duration curve is a continuously declining curve and long warmups at anything approaching FT can compromise one's ability to develop full power for the event.