Unbelievably tight bottom bracket

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:420e0bbc.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Removed LH side with little problem. RH ride is tight. Held Shimano
removal tool in with a crankbolt and a washer, heaved on it, no movement.
Tried using a mallet, no effect. Soaked in WD40 and left it for a while
with the frame on its side. Tried holding the tool in a vice and turning
the frame - the tool just cams around in the vice (admittedly not really
up to this kind of task).

Fitted a 32mm socket over the tool, which can't possibly slip, and a long
1/2" driver. Stood on handle of driver, no effect. Bounced a little and
stripped the steel splines from the tool under the torque! I have another
splined removal tool, but it's a Park one which is very hard to keep
firmly engaged (the BB does not have a hollow axle so I can't put a skewer
through it).

Any other ideas, apart from wheeling it down to the LBS? I have measured
the threads on the LH cup and it is ISO size, so clockwise should be the
correct direction to unscrew the RH cup.

By the way, I did not fit this BB myself - it's the original. May not
have been greased - grrrrrr.

Being one of the least qualified in this group, I'll step in with the
dumbest question -- the L and R sides of the BB being threaded in opposite
directions, are you sure you're cranking it the right way?

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:420e0bbc.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Removed LH side with little problem. RH ride is tight. Held Shimano
removal tool in with a crankbolt and a washer, heaved on it, no
movement. Tried using a mallet, no effect. Soaked in WD40 and left it
for a while with the frame on its side.

(I assume this is a sealed unit by the sounds of it rather than a cup and
cone style.)

It sounds like a steel cup, otherwise I think the splines would have been
damaged earlier in the adventure. If it were me I would back up to this step
and use proper penetrating oil. I would apply lots and let it sit overnight.
Using a torch risks damaging the paint, but I would also apply some heat to
the cup.

(If the cup is aluminium, then neither of these techniques will likely work
and I think you would use techniques used in loosening stuck seat posts).

Take care not to strip the cup splines. I recently had a bike brought in
where the cup splines had been stripped on both sides (aluminium alloy on Rh
side). It was a royal pain to remove the axle, then cut through the steel
tube that serves as the shell for the BB unit. It's really hard steel, it
takes hours, and it risks damage to the BB shell on the frame.

Good luck.
Blake

Zog The Undeniable said:

Removed LH side with little problem. RH ride is tight. Held Shimano
removal tool in with a crankbolt and a washer, heaved on it, no
movement. Tried using a mallet, no effect. Soaked in WD40 and left it
for a while with the frame on its side. Tried holding the tool in a
vice and turning the frame - the tool just cams around in the vice
(admittedly not really up to this kind of task).

Fitted a 32mm socket over the tool, which can't possibly slip, and a
long 1/2" driver. Stood on handle of driver, no effect. Bounced a
little and stripped the steel splines from the tool under the torque! I
have another splined removal tool, but it's a Park one which is very
hard to keep firmly engaged (the BB does not have a hollow axle so I
can't put a skewer through it).

Any other ideas, apart from wheeling it down to the LBS? I have
measured the threads on the LH cup and it is ISO size, so clockwise
should be the correct direction to unscrew the RH cup.

By the way, I did not fit this BB myself - it's the original. May not
have been greased - grrrrrr.

Had this problem recently. The BB was shot so I didn't need to worry
about re-using it.

I am not certain what part of my destruction process finally freed up
the cup, but I took a cold chisel to the bearing surrounding the axle
and a Dremel cut-off wheel to the same area, hopping to break the
unit. In a moment of exhaustion, I decided to give the removal tool a
quick try, and the whole thing came out very easily.

I figure that the pounding and grinding vibrated things enough to
loosen the corrosion. So that'd be my suggestion- just support the
frame in ways that won't cause any bending and pound on the BB for a
bit.

B Paton said:

(I assume this is a sealed unit by the sounds of it rather than a cup and
cone style.)

It sounds like a steel cup, otherwise I think the splines would have been
damaged earlier in the adventure. If it were me I would back up to this step
and use proper penetrating oil. I would apply lots and let it sit overnight.
Using a torch risks damaging the paint, but I would also apply some heat to
the cup.

(If the cup is aluminium, then neither of these techniques will likely work
and I think you would use techniques used in loosening stuck seat posts).

Take care not to strip the cup splines. I recently had a bike brought in
where the cup splines had been stripped on both sides (aluminium alloy on Rh
side). It was a royal pain to remove the axle, then cut through the steel
tube that serves as the shell for the BB unit. It's really hard steel, it
takes hours, and it risks damage to the BB shell on the frame.

That's the current plan - the frame is on its side with the threads
marinating in WD40. If it doesn't shift tomorrow morning I'll take it
over to my parents' house, where my father has a proper vice (Carl Fogel
will now come up with an amusing pun based on the fact that British
English uses the same spelling for vice, whether of the police squad or
bench tool variety).

The splines in the BB cup are still OK - yes, it's a Shimano-pattern
sealed unit. The tool gave up first. The cups are steel, and the frame
is also steel, so it's probably good old fashioned rust that I'm dealing
with. The LH cup showed no signs of threadlock, anyway.

The reason for removing the BB, as well as replacing it with an ISO
taper unit, was to drill and tap the shell for a drain plug so this
doesn't happen again...

Quoted message said:

If it doesn't shift tomorrow morning I'll take it
over to my parents' house, where my father has a proper vice

A proper vice should either free the cup or rip the threads out of the
bb shell. In extreme cases, you need 2 or 3 stout fellows with a
mighty vice. Either way, it's noisy and a lot of fun.

-Vee

B Paton said:

Quoted message said:

Take care not to strip the cup splines. I recently had a bike brought in
where the cup splines had been stripped on both sides (aluminium alloy on Rh
side). It was a royal pain to remove the axle, then cut through the steel
tube that serves as the shell for the BB unit. It's really hard steel, it
takes hours, and it risks damage to the BB shell on the frame.

That is where the MIG welder comes in handy. If you run a bead around
the bearing track the bb unit will loosen a lot through heat and
contraction

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Vee said:

Quoted message said:

If it doesn't shift tomorrow morning I'll take it
over to my parents' house, where my father has a proper vice

A proper vice should either free the cup or rip the threads out of the
bb shell. In extreme cases, you need 2 or 3 stout fellows with a
mighty vice.

Vise! Come on guys, it's a vise, not a vice.

Art Harris

Arthur Harris said:

Vise! Come on guys, it's a vise, not a vice.

My vice is British spelling ;-)

Arthur Harris said:

Vise! Come on guys, it's a vise, not a vice.

vice (2) n. & v. Variant of vise.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vice

James Thomson

Quoted message said:

Vise! Come on guys, it's a vise, not a vice.

Quoted message said:

Art Harris

You don't know parity when you see it?

-Vee

Vee said:

Quoted message said:

Vise! Come on guys, it's a vise, not a vice.

Quoted message said:

Art Harris

You don't know parity when you see it?

-Vee

Usenet reminds me of that Simpsons episode when Lisa's class have to
watch the ancient educational film about The Moon:

"The Moon belongs to America, and anxiously awaits the arrival of our
astro-men. Will you be among them?"

Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Vise! Come on guys, it's a vise, not a vice.

Art Harris

================
Wee awl sea hour rightings two bee wright...eye no eye dew.

Had this problem twice in my time. Due to no
grease and the dame fools using impact wrench to install BB. Ended up
using a Dremel tool with cutoff tool. Cut 4 slots in the cup like a
cross allmost to the threads. Now clamp on to the cup and cullaped them
and they fall out of the BB shell. And next time use lots of grease.
The more the merryer. You can allways wipe off the extra grease that
makes its way out of the shell by using a Q Tip.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:38:01 +0000, Zog The Undeniable
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

That's the current plan - the frame is on its side with the threads
marinating in WD40. If it doesn't shift tomorrow morning I'll take it
over to my parents' house, where my father has a proper vice (Carl Fogel

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

will now come up with an amusing pun based on the fact that British
English uses the same spelling for vice, whether of the police squad or
bench tool variety).

Dear Zog,

I am scarcely surprised that you have convinced yourself
that your father's vices are proper. As has been discussed:

Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
We first endure, then pity, then embrace.

More in sorrow than in anger,

Al Pope

Quoted message said:

And next time use lots of grease.
The more the merryer. You can allways wipe off the extra grease that
makes its way out of the shell by using a Q Tip.

Believe me, I'd like to strangle the person who fitted this one. I use
anti-seize when I fit a BB, and they never get stuck.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:36:24 -0600, "Hal" <[email hidden]> may have

Quoted message said:

Being one of the least qualified in this group, I'll step in with the
dumbest question -- the L and R sides of the BB being threaded in opposite
directions, are you sure you're cranking it the right way?

He is, if I read the post correctly.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Vee said:

A proper vice should either free the cup or rip the threads out of the
bb shell. In extreme cases, you need 2 or 3 stout fellows with a
mighty vice. Either way, it's noisy and a lot of fun.

Ben Franklin wrote "What maintains one Vice, would bring up two
Children." Now I'm confused. My Sears Craftsman vice only cost about
$40, and the maintanence has been $0. The kids have cost much more, and
they're not done yet.

PS - Scanning this thread, I'm not sure we ever heard the answer to what
type of threading the OP has - If English, clockwise loosens the RH cup
- but on Italian, counter-clockwise loosens the the RH cup - in both
cases, CC loosens the left cup.

Did he tell us and I missed it?

Mark Janeba

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:38:01 +0000, Zog The Undeniable

may have said:

B Paton said:

It sounds like a steel cup, otherwise I think the splines would have been
damaged earlier in the adventure. If it were me I would back up to this step
and use proper penetrating oil. I would apply lots and let it sit overnight.
Using a torch risks damaging the paint, but I would also apply some heat to
the cup.

That's the current plan - the frame is on its side with the threads
marinating in WD40.

WD40 isn't really good penetrant. It *might* work, but there are
better products.

Quoted message said:

If it doesn't shift tomorrow morning I'll take it
over to my parents' house, where my father has a proper vice (Carl Fogel
will now come up with an amusing pun based on the fact that British
English uses the same spelling for vice, whether of the police squad or
bench tool variety).

And the Brits are much more likely to view either with acceptance than
the more hidebound, perma-puckered Murricans.

Quoted message said:

The splines in the BB cup are still OK - yes, it's a Shimano-pattern
sealed unit. The tool gave up first. The cups are steel, and the frame
is also steel, so it's probably good old fashioned rust that I'm dealing
with. The LH cup showed no signs of threadlock, anyway.

That's a good-news/bad-news bit of info. If it had an aluminum right
end, there would be a chance that a few smacks with a hammer on the
end of the shaft might drive the steel guts out the other side. If
the right side's steel, there's a good chance that it's crimped
together or otherwise resistant to this type of approach. OTOH, the
splines ar eless likely to shear off under enthusiastic persuasion.

Quoted message said:

The reason for removing the BB, as well as replacing it with an ISO
taper unit, was to drill and tap the shell for a drain plug so this
doesn't happen again...

I suspect that your current plans will work.Patient tapping with a
light ball pien hammer around the shoulder of the BB may tend to
shatter the rust, which could help to get the unit to unscrew. What
one large force fails to accomplish can often be done by many small
ones instead.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Mark Janeba said:

Vee said:

A proper vice should either free the cup or rip the threads out of the
bb shell. In extreme cases, you need 2 or 3 stout fellows with a
mighty vice. Either way, it's noisy and a lot of fun.

Ben Franklin wrote "What maintains one Vice, would bring up two
Children." Now I'm confused. My Sears Craftsman vice only cost about
$40, and the maintanence has been $0. The kids have cost much more, and
they're not done yet.

PS - Scanning this thread, I'm not sure we ever heard the answer to what
type of threading the OP has - If English, clockwise loosens the RH cup
- but on Italian, counter-clockwise loosens the the RH cup - in both
cases, CC loosens the left cup.

Did he tell us and I missed it?

It's a normal English threaded BB. I measured the LH cup threads to be
sure, and the innards are marked 1.37" x 24 anyway. I'm therefore
trying to turn the tool clockwise to remove the RH cup (or the frame
clockwise when it's on top of the clamped tool).