Ullrich shouldn't have waited

"Gross" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

After the race Armstrong commented it was "nice" that Ullrich waited.

What he should have said is that it was "nice that Ullrich let me win my fifth tour".

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

Ullrich had no choice. It's generally assumed that Armtrong waited for him after his fall two years
ago (actually it wasn't the case, but that's another matter). So if he had attacked everybody would
have called him unsportmanlike, etc.. If he had won the Tour that way his victiory would have been
tainted (which his sponsors wouldn't have liked at all), if he had been beaten all the same, his
reputation would have been damaged for ever.

Benjo Maso

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

The reason the riders wait is to take the fans out of the equation. Otherwise fans would be
tripping riders that could beat their favorite. If the riders wait, then the fans will have no
effect on the outcome.

Gross said:

Does anyone else feel this way?

Nope, you're all alone. Sorry.

--
Dominic Richens | [email hidden] "If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close
to the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover
from his mistake.

The reason the riders wait is to take the fans out of the equation. Otherwise fans would be
tripping riders that could beat their favorite. If the riders wait, then the fans will have no
effect on the outcome.

Right......didn't that happen to Merckx?????/ Did a fan come out an punch Eddy in the face on Tour?
I agree............

Quoted message said:

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

He should have continued to the top and wait (trackstand) for Lance just before the finish line.
Result: everybody loves Ullrich for waiting and he wouldn't have lost any time. If Lance would have
caught him he could also say he slowed down for Lance to catch up.

There was a discussion with Gerrie Kneteman about this on Dutch TV. In his opinion Ullrich should
have continued, "falling is part of cycling/racing, you know that when you start". I also sounded
that in his time there was no curtesy waiting etc. and all oppertunities were used.

"Gross" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

After the race Armstrong commented it was "nice" that Ullrich waited.

What he should have said is that it was "nice that Ullrich let me win my fifth tour".

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

Gross

[email hidden] (Gross) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

Quoted message said:

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

Except that Lance would have one the tour without the extra seconds he gained on Luz Ardiden.
Remember, Jan still fell in the last time trial, plus he wasn't really gaining any time on Lance. If
I recall correctly they were going back and forth.

Jan was riding better than usual and Lance was riding worse than usual and Lance still won the race.
I have no doubt in my mind that Jan is overall a better physical athelete than Lance is, however,
Lance has much more discipline than Jan does. If Jan is to win the tour it will be because he wins
the mental game.

Uh...Ulrich didn't make a tactical error a couple of years ago when he drove off the road on a
descent? Guess that was an ACT OF GOD.

"Gross" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

After the race Armstrong commented it was "nice" that Ullrich waited.

What he should have said is that it was "nice that Ullrich let me win my fifth tour".

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

Gross

"Charlie C." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Gross) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close
to the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover
from his mistake.

Quoted message said:

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I
don't know.

Except that Lance would have one the tour without the extra seconds he gained on Luz Ardiden.
Remember, Jan still fell in the last time trial, plus he wasn't really gaining any time on Lance.
If I recall correctly

they

Quoted message said:

were going back and forth.

Jan was riding better than usual and Lance was riding worse than usual and Lance still won the
race. I have no doubt in my mind that Jan is overall

a

Quoted message said:

better physical athelete than Lance is, however, Lance has much more discipline than Jan does. If
Jan is to win the tour it will be because he wins the mental game.

That hard thing to do when you take drugs............so Lance will win that one too!

Yeah, he was close, and he usually rides close cutting the tangents, but the fan's musette handles
definitely played a large part in the crash!

--
Bernie Hall o __o </\_ \ < __/\ /\o__ (0) (0) / \__o ^^^^^^ ^ ^
2.4 - 112 - 26.2 Great Floridian Triathlon 2000~12.40.14 2001~12:30.36 2002~13:18.22 The Duke
Blue Devil 2002~12:26.39 Philmont Scout Ranch 1972, 2003 "Gross" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

After the race Armstrong commented it was "nice" that Ullrich waited.

What he should have said is that it was "nice that Ullrich let me win my fifth tour".

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

Gross

"Gross" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

After the race Armstrong commented it was "nice" that Ullrich waited.

What he should have said is that it was "nice that Ullrich let me win my fifth tour".

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

Gross

This is a case where even hindsight is not 20/20.

But there are many hazards on and off the road other than fans - steep drop-offs, curbs, melting
tar, trees, slippery road paint, etc. - hazards that all riders must SKILLFULLY avoid.

Now, it the fan would have lasso'ed a rope around Lance's handlebar, now that would have been an
excuse to wait. : )

But the I think the rule is to take "bad luck" out of the equation. If Lance would have crashed
behind Mayo, now that would have been bad luck and the riders should have waited. But my premise is
that the crash was not bad luck, but a tactical error as originally posted.

Riders attack tactical errors all the time. It appeared to me that the fan was keeping an
appropriate distance from the race.

Gross

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close
to the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover
from his mistake.

The reason the riders wait is to take the fans out of the equation. Otherwise fans would be
tripping riders that could beat their favorite. If the riders wait, then the fans will have no
effect on the outcome.

Gross <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too close to
the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to recover from
his mistake.

After the race Armstrong commented it was "nice" that Ullrich waited.

What he should have said is that it was "nice that Ullrich let me win my fifth tour".

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't know.

Gross

I'm glad Ullrich waited. What if he had won the tour just because of Armstrong's crash? It
would have been an anticlimax of a good TdF, and there would have been debates as to who was
the 'rightful' winnner, who was actually 'the strongest', etc. I don't think Ullrich wanted to
win a tour like Delgado, Zoetemelk, Aimar or Walkowiak. In addition, since Alpe d'Huez he gave
the impression of being very aware of his own abilities and I think he was betting on the final
TT anyway.

Dominic Richens <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gross said:

Does anyone else feel this way?

Nope, you're all alone. Sorry.

Gerrie Kneteman thought Ullrich should have taken advantage.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm glad Ullrich waited. What if he had won the tour just because of Armstrong's crash?

I agree.

Better to lose with honor than to win by taking advantage of another's misfortune.

Imagine the fans' reaction if JAN had attacked as soon as LANCE went down.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dominic Richens <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gross said:

Does anyone else feel this way?

Nope, you're all alone. Sorry.

Gerrie Kneteman thought Ullrich should have taken advantage.

Even if he did, could he really had won the stage and reduce considerably the diffence between him
and Lance? That's the other question. Just by looking how far was still from the finish line, the
way he looked and he's pace...I don't think he could've got away with much time, if any....

Juani

"Just a Cyclist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Charlie C." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Gross) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

It's just not right... Lance Armstrong made a TACTICAL ERROR on Luz Ardiden by riding too
close to the crowds and crashing. Therefore, Ullrich shouldn't have waited for Armstrong to
recover from his mistake.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course, one could argue that Lance would have caught up with Ullrich anyway.

But I think that Ullrich's waiting does make Lance's victory somewhat controversial.

Does anyone else feel this way? At first I thought it was a "classy" gesture but now I don't
know.

Except that Lance would have one the tour without the extra seconds he gained on Luz Ardiden.
Remember, Jan still fell in the last time trial, plus he wasn't really gaining any time on
Lance. If I recall correctly

they

Quoted message said:

were going back and forth.

Jan was riding better than usual and Lance was riding worse than usual and Lance still won the
race. I have no doubt in my mind that Jan is overall

a

Quoted message said:

better physical athelete than Lance is, however, Lance has much more discipline than Jan does.
If Jan is to win the tour it will be because he wins the mental game.

That hard thing to do when you take drugs............so Lance will win that one too!

Dale Newhouse, Big Tard, blathered, "*froth* *bargle* DRUGS I TELL YOU *snort* *scratch* DOPER!!!"

As he sat on the floor of his trailer in his underwear. th nurse passing in the hall way sighed and
turned away. "Dr. Proctor!", the nurse cried, "Mr Newhouse is apparently refusing to take his meds
again... And he's on the computer with that usenet thing he keeps babbling about."

"Oh dear, not again", sighed Dr Proctor, "I gess we'll just have to go backto the
suppositories then"

Dale's head whipped around at the sound of the S word, "Oh goody!!!", he cried as he whipped out his
stashed tube of KY from his stained and riped undershorts. "PLAYTIME!!!", he screamed.

The doctor and the nurse lookeed at each other with resigned looks and moved for the electric
shock batons...