Ullrich... Ullrich... Jan Ullrich?

I feel Jan is still in the top three in the world. If he had a team around
him that didn't ride for themselves, it might help. He finished strong
considering he had no help at all, while Lance was kicking back behind a
couple of teamates for most of the whole stage. Not taking anything away
from Lance, he is super and fit.

Lance and Basso are looking very strong. It may be close if Basso can put
in a good ITT.

Curt

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Where have I heard that name?

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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I feel Jan is still in the top three in the world. If he had a team

around

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him that didn't ride for themselves, it might help. He finished strong
considering he had no help at all, while Lance was kicking back behind a
couple of teamates for most of the whole stage. Not taking anything away
from Lance, he is super and fit.

Lance and Basso are looking very strong. It may be close if Basso can put
in a good ITT.

Curt

I keep wondering why Kloden didn't stay with him yesterday. WUWT?

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I keep wondering why Kloden didn't stay with him yesterday. WUWT?

Yesterday Ullrich had Guerini, today he was alone and not too far,
Kloden could probably have waited this time around.

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Marlene Blanshay said:

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
=20

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I feel Jan is still in the top three in the world. If he had a team

=20
around
=20

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him that didn't ride for themselves, it might help. He finished strong=

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considering he had no help at all, while Lance was kicking back behind =

a

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couple of teamates for most of the whole stage. Not taking anything aw=

ay

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from Lance, he is super and fit.

Lance and Basso are looking very strong. It may be close if Basso can =

put

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in a good ITT.

Curt

=20
I keep wondering why Kloden didn't stay with him yesterday. WUWT?

Why should he? Jan also said in an interview that there's no need for=20
that. He more or less said "I didn't need any people for pacing, and=20
Andreas [Kl=F6den] did very well."

Maybe he's just not such a wimp like Mayo.

Ullrich spent the day in the same slipstream that Armstrong did...

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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I feel Jan is still in the top three in the world. If he had a team

around

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him that didn't ride for themselves, it might help. He finished strong
considering he had no help at all, while Lance was kicking back behind a
couple of teamates for most of the whole stage.

Curt

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Where have I heard that name?

"Brenton James" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Ullrich spent the day in the same slipstream that Armstrong did...

You are not taking in the very important mental part of what you are saying.
It is Armstrong's team, not Jan's. You don't think that matters? If you
don't I feel you have never been in any team competition before.

Jan's team is a huge disappointment.

Curt

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"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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I feel Jan is still in the top three in the world. If he had a team

around

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him that didn't ride for themselves, it might help. He finished strong
considering he had no help at all, while Lance was kicking back behind a
couple of teamates for most of the whole stage.

Curt

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Where have I heard that name?

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Where have I heard that name?

Lance and Basso hit the race so hard today it's going to leave an ugly mark
and Ullrich lost significant time.

I would not, however, call his performance anonymous. It is easy to ride
when you are feeling good, easier to quit when you are having a bad day.
Ullrich pounded up that climb like a pro and plainly said he would work for
a stronger teammate if he didn't have the form.

I watched the T-Mobile team car pass Ullrich on the final climb and was
reminded of the fit Tyler threw last year when his team car went up the road
to support the stage winner! I'll bet Jan won't make his ds say it was the
toughest decision of his life to leave him for his stronger teammate like
Hamilton did.

I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just pointing
out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Afterall, they weren't locking his team car's doors on him like they were
Mayo and he wasn't giving the Miss America wave to the team cars like
Hamilton. Two better candidates for your sentiments.

Agree, Ullrich rode a great stage and acted like a true sportsman,
just wasn't in the league with lance and basso.

TM said:

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Where have I heard that name?

Lance and Basso hit the race so hard today it's going to leave an ugly mark
and Ullrich lost significant time.

I would not, however, call his performance anonymous. It is easy to ride
when you are feeling good, easier to quit when you are having a bad day.
Ullrich pounded up that climb like a pro and plainly said he would work for
a stronger teammate if he didn't have the form.

I watched the T-Mobile team car pass Ullrich on the final climb and was
reminded of the fit Tyler threw last year when his team car went up the road
to support the stage winner! I'll bet Jan won't make his ds say it was the
toughest decision of his life to leave him for his stronger teammate like
Hamilton did.

I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just pointing
out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Afterall, they weren't locking his team car's doors on him like they were
Mayo and he wasn't giving the Miss America wave to the team cars like
Hamilton. Two better candidates for your sentiments.

zeno said:

Marlene Blanshay said:

I keep wondering why Kloden didn't stay with him yesterday. WUWT?

T-Mobile alreaady knew what should be obvious to everyone else. Jan came
into the Tour on the heels of very poor preperation, a crash diet & no real
base fitness for the mountains. He beat a bunch of second rankers in
Switzerland.

One of whom was Georg Totschnig, who seems to be having a very fine
tour, thank you very much.

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Holding back Kloden would have been throwing good money after bad.

Zeno

Probably Walter Godefroot told Andreas over radio not to bother, keep
working on his own standing so they can salvage something from the Tour.
If you read Godefroot's reaction in CyclingNews
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul17news>,
you could tell he's not terribly happy. Probably one of the reasons
Walter and Rudy Pevenage had their falling out.

[Jan's personal manager, Rudy Pevenage, said, "Jan is preparing to
attack Lance in the mountains, on the hardest climbs."]

TM said:

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Where have I heard that name?

Lance and Basso hit the race so hard today it's going to leave an ugly mark
and Ullrich lost significant time.

I would not, however, call his performance anonymous. It is easy to ride
when you are feeling good, easier to quit when you are having a bad day.
Ullrich pounded up that climb like a pro and plainly said he would work for
a stronger teammate if he didn't have the form.

I watched the T-Mobile team car pass Ullrich on the final climb and was
reminded of the fit Tyler threw last year when his team car went up the road
to support the stage winner! I'll bet Jan won't make his ds say it was the
toughest decision of his life to leave him for his stronger teammate like
Hamilton did.

I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just pointing
out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Afterall, they weren't locking his team car's doors on him like they were
Mayo and he wasn't giving the Miss America wave to the team cars like
Hamilton. Two better candidates for your sentiments.

Jan's fading. He might resurrect his career if he goes to CSC and gets
the fatherly advice he sorely needs (Get the [censored] out and train in
December and race a full spring, it doesn't have to be hard, you don't
have to try to win any of these races, but you are not going to sit
around your house eating schnitzel all day until June!)

You only have to look at the continuing disappointment of Botero and the
[censored] they let him get away with for training last year. Maybe even
Fassa Bortolo would sort these jokers out, as Giancarlo Ferretti
wouldn't stand for it.

"TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just pointing
out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Jan is toast. We've seen the final Tour ride of Jan this year if I'm any
judge of it. Andreas Kloden will be the GC hope for T-Mobile next year.

Tom Kunich said:

"TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just pointing
out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Jan is toast. We've seen the final Tour ride of Jan this year if I'm any
judge of it. Andreas Kloden will be the GC hope for T-Mobile next year.

Yeah, because he was 1 minute in front in two mountain stages. Sounds
reasonable.
Or do you think Jan will retire?

"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]...

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"TM" <lkjd@[email hidden]...

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I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just

pointing

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out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Jan is toast. We've seen the final Tour ride of Jan this year if I'm any
judge of it. Andreas Kloden will be the GC hope for T-Mobile next year.

Will Ullrich withdraw and quit like Tyler did?
If so, after tomorrow?

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just pointing
out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Jan is toast. We've seen the final Tour ride of Jan this year if I'm any
judge of it. Andreas Kloden will be the GC hope for T-Mobile next year.

Jan may stick around to try grabbing the ITT in Besancon.

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...>

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Jan's fading. He might resurrect his career if he goes to CSC and gets
the fatherly advice he sorely needs (Get the [censored] out and train in
December and race a full spring, it doesn't have to be hard, you don't
have to try to win any of these races, but you are not going to sit
around your house eating schnitzel all day until June!)

You only have to look at the continuing disappointment of Botero and the
[censored] they let him get away with for training last year. Maybe even
Fassa Bortolo would sort these jokers out, as Giancarlo Ferretti
wouldn't stand for it.

I can't speak to his training because I just don't know. He could very well
have ruined his form in January.

I think he and Voeckler turned themselves inside out today. The difference
being that, no matter what the outcome, Voeckler could not lose and Ullrich
could not win. It had to be a little steeper for Ullrich knowing that
Armstrong and his own teammate were both up the road and it appeared that
he did not let it negatively effect his performance. He has also done
everything to steady the team instead of tearing it apart to find blame for
his own shortcomings. I think both of those things show good character and
that's what put me in his corner on this one.

No one could argue with you about CSC. In fact, Riis was on Telekom in 1997
and that was the year...

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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"TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just

pointing

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out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Jan is toast. We've seen the final Tour ride of Jan this year if I'm any
judge of it. Andreas Kloden will be the GC hope for T-Mobile next year.

You might be right. Today, however, I was just giving the devil his due.

Speaking of Kloden, his next year may be now. It doesn't seem far fetched
that he could hang on for a podium spot. Where's hindsight when I need it?

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Tom Kunich said:

"TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just

pointing

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out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Jan is toast. We've seen the final Tour ride of Jan this year if I'm any
judge of it. Andreas Kloden will be the GC hope for T-Mobile next year.

Yeah, because he was 1 minute in front in two mountain stages. Sounds
reasonable. Or do you think Jan will retire?

I think that Jan is a terrific racer but his morale is being beaten out of
him everytime they hit these steep climbs and Armstrong and now other riders
as well motor away from him. I think that his training program before was
probably near optimal for some one that puts on a lot of weight in the
winter time. I also think that he made a mistake of getting too skinny this
year without leaving enough time for his body to adjust. I think Jan would
be flying in the Vuelta, but I don't think that he can stand losing any more
and I think that he'll just retire.

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:tpgKc.104906$IQ4.79695@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]...

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"TM" <lkjd@[email hidden]...

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I'm not saying that Jan is going to stage a come back. I'm just

pointing

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Quoted message said:

out that Ullrich handled himself like a professional today and that's
something that should earn him a little more respect.

Jan is toast. We've seen the final Tour ride of Jan this year if I'm any
judge of it. Andreas Kloden will be the GC hope for T-Mobile next year.

Will Ullrich withdraw and quit like Tyler did?
If so, after tomorrow?

If I was going to guess from what I've seen of Jan, he won't pull a Greg
LeMond. He'll fight to the Champs like the hero he is.

zeno said:

Richard Adams said:

T-Mobile already knew what should be obvious to everyone else. Jan came

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into the Tour on the heels of very poor preparation, a crash diet & no
real base fitness for the mountains. He beat a bunch of second rankers
in
Switzerland.

One of whom was Georg Totschnig, who seems to be having a very fine
tour, thank you very much.

Right -- one out of about 120 riders. How many other TDF contenders were in
the Suisse field? Bobby Julich -- woop de doo! That field was second rankers
compared to say, the Dauphine.

You know, you should really look some of this stuff before posting.
From CyclingNews:

Final general classification

1 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 34.19.25
2 Fabian Jeker (Swi) Saunier Duval-Prodir 0.01
3 Dario David Cioni (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 1.20
4 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.26

Looks more like Totschnig was the one using TdS to prepare.

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Holding back Kloden would have been throwing good money after bad.

Probably Walter Godefroot told Andreas over radio not to bother, keep
working on his own standing so they can salvage something from the Tour.

What I said.

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If you read Godefroot's reaction in CyclingNews
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul17news>,
you could tell he's not terribly happy. Probably one of the reasons
Walter and Rudy Pevenage had their falling out.

If Godefroot publicly said that he thought Jan's conditioning was (once
again) marginal at best going into the TDF, as team manager that would
reflect badly on him. Of course he was "floored" when Jan tanked! This
year, IMO, Jan's preparation for the racing season was among the worst for
any year he actually competed in the TDF. Godefroot proclaimed that
everything was miraculously cured after Switzerland. Now he is covering his
own butt. Maybe Riis could get the most out of Jan. It appears all that
Walter can do is watch the train wreck and make excuses after.

For what it cost to steal Jan back from Bianchi someone at Telekom will
undoubtably be questioning certain management styles and decision making.

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[Jan's personal manager, Rudy Pevenage, said, "Jan is preparing to
attack Lance in the mountains, on the hardest climbs."]

Are you familiar with the term "Ass kissing 'Yes Man?'" :-)

Rudy: "Here, Jan, this is Santiago Botero's 2003 secret training
program, see what you can do with it."