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Road Cycling
Published
31 October 2006
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7 November 2006
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  1. Tim McNamara said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:
    Tim McNamara said:

    > Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    > logistical vehicles.


    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Quoted message said:

    Good grief! That's amazing stuff. I was particularly amused by
    the guy carrying the car unibody on the front of his trike!


    Don't overlook the nicely paved streets. They don't have republican
    roads over there as we do with potholes and cracks that can eat
    bicycles. Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    Now that you mention it, I hadn't paid attention to the backgrounds as
    much as the foregrounds. Many of those photos do show awfully nicely
    paved roads.

    It's an interesting set of priority discussions. Here in Minnesota, the
    Governor and the Legislature (a Republican and Republican controlled
    House) have done such a [censored]-poor job of dealing with roads (we like to
    build new ones for subdivision developers, but not to maintain the ones
    we have. Good thing the state isn't in charge of puppies). The
    Governor even tried to get one of the most important road projects in
    the metro area done by asking the contractors to basically accept an IOU
    for hundreds of millions of dollars. Oddly enough that didn't fly.

    BTW the Governor is campaigning on his fiscal record, claiming he's
    actually competent. Sigh. On the one hand, we have a vapid Republican
    liar campaigning for re-election and on the other we have a vapid
    Democratic publicity hound challenging him. The Independence Party
    candidate seems saner and smarter than both of them, but is boring and
    doesn't have the peculiar razzmatazz that Jesse Ventura had.

    I don't mind a boring governor. We had moderate Republican Arne Carlson
    for a couple of terms, boring as could be but he did a good job. And
    hilariously he won twice without having the Republican endorsement! The
    first time he won, he became the Republican candidate six weeks before
    the election when the endorsed candidate bowed out after his
    predilection for skinny dipping with minors came out; Carlson beat the
    incumbent Democrat fairly handily. The second time, the endorsed
    candidate was a far right wing nutbar who lost the primary.

    Hmmm, maybe if the Democrats defy my expectations and take back one or
    both halves of Congress, it'd drive the Republican Party back towards
    conservative ideals.

    Where's Jesse when you need him?

    Robin

  2. jobst.brandt said:

    Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    logistical vehicles.

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Good stuff! I posted this to our bike club listserv, and got more replies
    than anything this month.

    Matt O.

  3. jobst.brandt said:
    Tim McNamara said:
    Quoted message said:

    Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    logistical vehicles.

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Quoted message said:

    Good grief! That's amazing stuff. I was particularly amused by the
    guy carrying the car unibody on the front of his trike!

    Don't overlook the nicely paved streets. They don't have republican
    roads over there as we do with potholes and cracks that can eat
    bicycles. Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    Don't forget to pay your "user fee" before you pedal out of your driveway.

    Matt O.

  4. Quoted message said:
    Carl Fogel said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    >> logistical vehicles.

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Good grief! That's amazing stuff. I was particularly amused by
    > the guy carrying the car unibody on the front of his trike!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don't overlook the nicely paved streets. They don't have
    republican roads over there as we do with potholes and cracks that
    can eat bicycles. Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be
    privatized.

    Quoted message said:

    Er, the primary traffic in most of those pictures appears to be
    bicycles:

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics

    Quoted message said:

    The whole point is that people are using bicycles and motorcycles to
    move loads that we would normally carry in cars and trucks.

    Quoted message said:

    Such roads tend to last longer than roads with heavy car and truck
    traffic.

    Oh! Is that why your favorite mine field has cracked eroded asphalt
    and full of puncture vine, because it has heavy traffic? You might
    try roads in (F), (D), (CH), (I), (SLO), (CRO), (NL),... and note that
    theirs are without cracks and potholes, including mountain roads in
    the Alps.

    Jobst Brandt

    Dear Jobst,

    In another thread, a Slate series of bicycling pictures was mentioned.

    I suspect that this road lasts longer because of the kind of traffic
    that it bears:

    http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/12.html

    Imagine the results of replacing those 30-pound bicycles with the
    3,000 pound cars, 6,000 pound trucks, and monster semi-trailers of a
    California freeway.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  5. Tim McNamara said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:
    Peter Chisholm said:

    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
    > Jobst Brandt wrote:
    > > Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    > > logistical vehicles.
    >
    > Hatred does not become you Jobst.
    >
    > -- Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

    C'mon, why must you put such a spin on it..'hatred'?? Stoopid,
    unnecessary design, poor answer to any question, but he doesn't
    hate anything.....or maybe he does..

    Poor answer to ANY question? So, for example, if a person had damage
    to their wrists that prohibited them from riding an upright bicycle
    in comfort [1], you would suggest they live with the pain or give up
    cycling instead of riding a recumbent bicycle?

    I have two friends with severe arthritis of the neck, who can ride
    recumbents comfortably but not regular bicycles. So that seems to be a
    good answer to their question.

    But I thought proper fit on an upright bicycle cures ALL discomfort
    problems - at least that is what the upright bicycle evangelists claim!

    --
    Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

  6. [email hidden] wrote:
    :: Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    :: logistical vehicles.
    ::
    :: http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/
    ::
    :: Jobst Brandt

    I didn't see any recumbents and don't understand why they don't count.
    Please explain.

  7. Ted who? said:
    Quoted message said:

    Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, what is your solution to poor road surfaces, all toll
    roads?

    Collect taxes and use them to maintain roads (and other public
    facilities). Our taxes are currently being used to run a corrupt
    government with "no child left behind", "homeland security" and other
    such Newspeak shams, not to mention war.

    Your question seems to believe that there is no money for such things.

    We are living Orwell's 1884.

    http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

    Jobst Brandt

  8. Ted who? said:
    Quoted message said:

    Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, what is your solution to poor road surfaces, all toll
    roads?

    Collect taxes and use them to maintain roads (and other public
    facilities). Our taxes are currently being used to run a corrupt
    government with "no child left behind", "homeland security" and other
    such Newspeak shams, not to mention war.

    Your question seems to believe that there is no money for such things.

    We are living Orwell's 1984.

    http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

    Jobst Brandt

  9. Quoted message said:
    Carl Fogel said:

    Er, the primary traffic in most of those pictures appears to be
    bicycles:

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics

    Quoted message said:

    The whole point is that people are using bicycles and motorcycles to
    move loads that we would normally carry in cars and trucks.

    Quoted message said:

    Such roads tend to last longer than roads with heavy car and truck
    traffic.

    Oh! Is that why your favorite mine field has cracked eroded asphalt
    and full of puncture vine, because it has heavy traffic? You might
    try roads in (F), (D), (CH), (I), (SLO), (CRO), (NL),... and note that
    theirs are without cracks and potholes, including mountain roads in
    the Alps.

    Buycycling magazine recently had an article on asphalt paving. ISTM
    the article was interesting, but a bit shallow - in a way, similar to
    the asphalt around here.

    But I wonder, what are the specific differences in paving techniques
    between different countries? What makes roads stay smoother in certain
    countries or states?

    I've always figured that more freeze-thaw cycles must make it more
    difficult for a road to hold together. IOW, places like my NE Ohio
    where winter temperatures oscillate above and below freezing would be
    worse than places further north or south. Aside from that, is it
    primarily asphalt thickness? Base compaction?

    I note the 200 yard section of (useful!) bike trail into our village
    center (from a dead-end street) is starting to grow lumps and cracks.
    It's about 7 years old, I think.

    - Frank Krygowski

  10. Quoted message said:
    Tim McNamara said:
    Quoted message said:

    Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    logistical vehicles.

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Quoted message said:

    Good grief! That's amazing stuff. I was particularly amused by the
    guy carrying the car unibody on the front of his trike!

    Don't overlook the nicely paved streets. They don't have republican
    roads over there as we do with potholes and cracks that can eat
    bicycles. Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    Jobst Brandt

    THose aren't potholes. They're tax-free traffic calming devices!

    Cheers,

  11. Frank Krygowski said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Er, the primary traffic in most of those pictures appears to be
    bicycles:

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The whole point is that people are using bicycles and motorcycles
    to move loads that we would normally carry in cars and trucks.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Such roads tend to last longer than roads with heavy car and truck
    traffic.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh! Is that why your favorite mine field has cracked eroded
    asphalt and full of puncture vine, because it has heavy traffic?
    You might try roads in (F), (D), (CH), (I), (SLO), (CRO),
    (NL),... and note that theirs are without cracks and potholes,
    including mountain roads in the Alps.

    Quoted message said:

    Buycycling magazine recently had an article on asphalt paving. ISTM
    the article was interesting, but a bit shallow - in a way, similar
    to the asphalt around here.

    Quoted message said:

    But I wonder, what are the specific differences in paving techniques
    between different countries? What makes roads stay smoother in
    certain countries or states?

    Quoted message said:

    I've always figured that more freeze-thaw cycles must make it more
    difficult for a road to hold together. IOW, places like my NE Ohio
    where winter temperatures oscillate above and below freezing would
    be worse than places further north or south. Aside from that, is it
    primarily asphalt thickness? Base compaction?

    Quoted message said:

    I note the 200 yard section of (useful!) bike trail into our village
    center (from a dead-end street) is starting to grow lumps and
    cracks. It's about 7 years old, I think.

    The difference is sub-grade, and repaving when the surface begins to
    fail. Bike paths are notorious for being paved on almost no subgrade
    preparation because "they are only bicycles". These fall apart
    without use as soil moisture changes and vegetation grows. Obviously
    heavily loaded vehicles can serve the final blow.

    Locally, State and Interstate highways are a mess of cracks and holes
    that you wouldn't want encounter on a bicycle. There have been
    assessments on how much wear and tear this causes on vehicles using
    these roads. It is more than the expense of keeping the surface in
    good condition. As I said, republican roads. Taxes are BAD.

    Jobst Brandt

  12. Quoted message said:
    Tim McNamara said:
    Quoted message said:

    Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    logistical vehicles.

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Quoted message said:

    Good grief! That's amazing stuff. I was particularly amused by the
    guy carrying the car unibody on the front of his trike!

    Don't overlook the nicely paved streets. They don't have republican
    roads over there as we do with potholes and cracks that can eat
    bicycles. Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    In the case of China, many roads are probably less than 10 (and
    certainly 20) years old. Trust me, not all roads are so nicely paved -
    those tend to be in the large metropolitan areas. Once you leave the
    big cities behind, the roads deteriorate rapidly (but there are still
    plenty of bicycles hauling stuff).

  13. Roger Zoul said:

    [email hidden] wrote:
    :: Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    :: logistical vehicles.
    ::
    :: http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/
    ::
    :: Jobst Brandt

    I didn't see any recumbents and don't understand why they don't count.
    Please explain.

    Dear Roger,

    Nice point.

    As a sidelight, recumbent motorcycles are practically unknown.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  14. Quoted message said:
    Ted who? said:
    Quoted message said:

    Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, what is your solution to poor road surfaces, all toll
    roads?

    Collect taxes and use them to maintain roads (and other public
    facilities). Our taxes are currently being used to run a corrupt
    government with "no child left behind", "homeland security" and other
    such Newspeak shams, not to mention war.

    Your question seems to believe that there is no money for such things.

    We are living Orwell's 1984.

    http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

    Jobst Brandt

    Jobst, YOU wrote "taxes are bad, public facilities need to be
    privatized," not me. I asked what you would suggest to improve the
    roads. If they need to be privatized then the only way to get enough
    money is by making them all toll roads. YOU then say collect taxes and
    use them to maintain roads ...
    Make up your mind.

    Ted. (Who)

  15. Ted said:
    Quoted message said:
    Ted who? said:

    > Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be privatized.

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, what is your solution to poor road surfaces, all toll
    roads?

    Collect taxes and use them to maintain roads (and other public
    facilities). Our taxes are currently being used to run a corrupt
    government with "no child left behind", "homeland security" and other
    such Newspeak shams, not to mention war.

    Your question seems to believe that there is no money for such things.

    We are living Orwell's 1984.

    http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

    Jobst Brandt

    Jobst, YOU wrote "taxes are bad, public facilities need to be
    privatized," not me. I asked what you would suggest to improve the
    roads. If they need to be privatized then the only way to get enough
    money is by making them all toll roads. YOU then say collect taxes and
    use them to maintain roads ...
    Make up your mind.

    Ted. (Who)

    You need to sharpen your sense of irony. Clearly the irony in Jobst's
    post was lost on you.

  16. Ted said:

    Jobst, YOU wrote "taxes are bad, public facilities need to be
    privatized," not me.

    I thought he was kidding.
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  17. Roger Zoul said:

    [email hidden] wrote:
    :: Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    :: logistical vehicles.
    ::
    :: http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/
    ::
    :: Jobst Brandt

    I didn't see any recumbents and don't understand why they don't count.
    Please explain.

    Jobst Brandt [1] and I have orthogonal positions (literally) when it
    comes to appropriate riding position on a bicycle. Jobst and a bike
    shop owner in Boulder, Colorado [2] get cranky when the word
    "r*c*mb*nt" is used on rec.bicycles.*.

    I suggest ignoring Jobst's and Peter's anti-r*c*mb*nt comments unless
    you are a Usenet crank that likes contentious debate [3].

    [1] <http://yarchive.net/bike/recumbent.html>.
    [2] < http://www.vecchios.com/>.
    [3] Hey, I resemble that remark.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

  18. aka Frank Krygowski said:


    Buycycling magazine recently had an article on asphalt paving. ISTM
    the article was interesting, but a bit shallow - in a way, similar to
    the asphalt around here.

    Asphalt is a cementitious material that is derived from crude oil, and
    typically makes up only a small fraction of what is variously known as
    bituminous concrete, asphalt cement concrete or asphaltic concrete,
    with the remaining components being a matrix of coarse aggregate, fine
    aggregate and mineral filler (sub-sand size rock particles) and air
    voids.

    Quoted message said:

    But I wonder, what are the specific differences in paving techniques
    between different countries? What makes roads stay smoother in certain
    countries or states?

    To obtain proper compaction of asphaltic concrete during placement, the
    subgrade must be adequately stable. The is further compounded by the
    normal paving method of having dump trucks loaded with the hot
    asphaltic concrete operating on the subgrade.

    Quoted message said:

    I've always figured that more freeze-thaw cycles must make it more
    difficult for a road to hold together. IOW, places like my NE Ohio
    where winter temperatures oscillate above and below freezing would be
    worse than places further north or south. Aside from that, is it
    primarily asphalt thickness? Base compaction?

    Water is the enemy in several ways. Beyond the aforementioned
    freeze-thaw cycles, the strength of fine-grained subgrade materials
    varies in an approximate inverse manner with moisture content
    (excluding being dried beyond the shrinkage limit). Water will not flow
    freely through fine-grained soils, so when these are loaded rapidly
    (e.g. transient wheel load) positive pore water pressures develop that
    lower the strength of the soil until they dissipate.

    Typical solutions include bound base materials (with Portland cement,
    asphalt cement, fly-ash or hydrated lime), materials with a low
    percentage of silt and clay size particles and/or subsurface drains.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

  19. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Carl Fogel said:

    >>> Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    >>> logistical vehicles.

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Quoted message said:

    >> Good grief! That's amazing stuff. I was particularly amused by
    >> the guy carrying the car unibody on the front of his trike!

    Quoted message said:

    > Don't overlook the nicely paved streets. They don't have
    > republican roads over there as we do with potholes and cracks that
    > can eat bicycles. Taxes are bad, public facilities need to be
    > privatized.

    Quoted message said:

    Er, the primary traffic in most of those pictures appears to be
    bicycles:

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics

    Quoted message said:

    The whole point is that people are using bicycles and motorcycles to
    move loads that we would normally carry in cars and trucks.

    Quoted message said:

    Such roads tend to last longer than roads with heavy car and truck
    traffic.

    Oh! Is that why your favorite mine field has cracked eroded asphalt
    and full of puncture vine, because it has heavy traffic? You might
    try roads in (F), (D), (CH), (I), (SLO), (CRO), (NL),... and note that
    theirs are without cracks and potholes, including mountain roads in
    the Alps.

    Jobst Brandt

    Dear Jobst,

    My bicycle path has cracked and eroded asphalt because it's a cheap
    strip of shallow asphalt laid on notoriously bad soil, often with huge
    cottonwoods next to it.

    Soil in this area tends toward bentonite clay, which has a nasty habit
    of expanding wildly when wet and breaking the foundations of homes and
    university buildings.

    The cottonwood roots have broken more expensive concrete slabs
    intended to fix things.

    I'll try to remember to take a few pictures of the path versus the
    road to illustrate the difference. I'll also try to take a picture of
    the larger cracks, which were filled with asphalt recently. It will be
    interesting to see if the goatheads just grow up through the new
    asphalt next year.

    Regrettably, some new state parks employees decided to save time by
    using a full-size garbage truck instead of a pickup truck to collect
    the garbage from the trash cans, so some sections of the path have
    been smashed--you've mentioned how ground squirrels like to burrow
    under roads because it gives them a solid roof over their heads.

    As a rule of thumb, when grass and puncture vine grow in the cracks in
    the middle of a desert or prairie road, there ain't enough traffic to
    worry about maintaining things.

    Given that I see half a dozen pedestrians and bicyclists on the path,
    it's reasonable for the county not to bother spending much on the
    upkeep of a path that turns into a state park halfway to the dam.

    To give some idea of how little used the path is, I stop in summer to
    shoo rattlesnakes off it. This afternoon, I counted 11 deer on the
    path in about a mile.

    And to be honest, it works fine for a bicycle. For 15 miles, I use my
    touring bike's brakes only for right-angle corners.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Some pictures of my daily dreadful "mine-field".

    ***

    Here's the worst that I can find, some up-buckled concrete about ten
    years old:

    http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=344a_path_broken_concrete.jpg
    or http://tinyurl.com/up6qp

    The cottonwood casting the shadow across the path is the most likely
    suspect, but to be fair, there's only one other spot like this in
    about six miles. A metal sign, torn down for fun every month or two,
    warns "Caution Trail Damage Ahead." Luckily, I ride up the river
    toward the camera, so it's just a launching ramp, not the ugly
    rim-wrecker seen from this angle, often camouflaged by shadows
    and leaves (which I scraped away with my shoe, like a Playboy
    photographer removing lingerie blocking the view).

    ***

    Here's a more typical section of concrete path heading up the Arkansas
    River valley, taken a week or so ago. The river is off in the trees.

    http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=336a_yellow_leaves.jpg
    or http://tinyurl.com/yndrc4

    This section of the path is smooth and favored by lizards in summer,
    deer the year round, tarantulas in early fall, and recumbents in
    spring. A section of the old asphalt path can be seen to the left. The
    silvery-brown brush is mostly dead ragweed, the yellow-leaf tree is a
    young cottonwood, and the blue mountains twenty miles away are about
    9,000 to 10,000 feet high and about 4,000 to 5,000 feet in relief, the
    lower and undistinguished northern end of the Wet Mountain range.

    Here's a fall tarantula on that section of concrete:

    http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=290atarantula.jpg
    or http://tinyurl.com/ydrtag

    The close-up shows that the concrete is in good shape.

    ***

    Here's an example of a recent spate of path repair, presumably
    undertaken in September by a state government desperate to win my
    vote:

    http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=346a_patched_goathead_crack.jpg
    or http://tinyurl.com/y78spb

    They just patched the biggest cracks across the asphalt path in the
    state park. (Concrete means Pueblo city and county, asphalt means
    Colorado state park leased from the federal government. A wooden
    bridge divides the two political realms.)

    Come spring, I'll find out if the goatheads that were growing in most
    of the cracks can grow up through the asphalt patches like the one
    across the bottom of the picture. The picture shows the beginning of a
    prime section of goathead territory--note how the leaves make it even
    more ridiculous to claim that the goatheads can be spotted and dodged.

    ***

    Here's where a misguided maintenance crew ran a full-size garbage
    truck down the path instead of the usual pickup truck:

    http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=347a_patched_garbage_truck_tracks.jpg
    or http://tinyurl.com/y7ch47

    The dual-wheel tracks lead to where the heavily loaded tires broke
    through and destroyed a ground-squirrel den under the asphalt. Look
    through the bike frame to see the handsome new black asphalt patch,
    which replaced an orange safety cone after a few months.

    Come to think of it, here's a picture of that safety cone:

    http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=186a_safety_cone.jpg
    or http://tinyurl.com/suoff

    That's what heavy traffic does to shallow-laid asphalt. No bicycle
    will do that kind of damage.

    ***

    Here's a low-angle view of the same section, showing the patch without
    the bicycle in the way, with an example in the foreground of a plant
    or root mound bursting up through the path:

    http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=349a_alternate_view_of_patched_garbage_truck_tracks.jpg
    or http://tinyurl.com/y2dcum

    I know what happened to cause the patch because I met the garbage
    truck head-on that day a little further down the path, which was like
    running into an elephant lumbering down the sidewalk.

    ***

    Today, total traffic on this six-mile stretch of what's called a
    nature trail on a sunny 54-degree fall afternoon around 3pm consisted
    of me, two touring bikes, and two people out for a walk, one with a
    dog. It's hard to blame the government for not worrying too much about
    the state of 20-year-old asphalt and 10-year-old concrete. Average
    speed for this section is a little over 20 mph.

    Most of the damage is just the freeze-thaw cycle when summer
    temperatures regularly reach 100F and winter temperatures drop to
    -15F, coupled with roots growing into the path and soils that swell
    when flooded. Bicycles and pedestrians do no more damage to the
    asphalt and concrete out there than they do to the sidewalks in front
    of homes.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  20. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Daryl Hunt said:

    "Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Skip over the recumbents in this web site, they don't count as
    logistical vehicles.

    http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

    Jobst Brandt

    Perhaps not in the same league, but last spring I came back from the auto
    parts store with a water pump, 2 gallons of antifreeze and various hoses
    and clamps, all on my rear rack -- the parts guys were amazed. Oh yeah, it
    was snowing and I had studded tires.

    I get some pretty strange looks by the Propane vendor when I show up with
    the 30lb (7 gal) tank on the back of mine. Here's a hint. Always have it
    completely filled. If you don't, you will be all over the road when the
    liquid shifts.

    One of my Dad's puzzles: What can you carry full, but
    not carry half full? A carboy of mercury.

    --
    Michael Press

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