TSS and training hours???

I use TSS as my primary indicator for overall training load, in place of the word 'hours' or 'miles' as I would have used last year. You can ramp up TSS as the season nears, just as you might ramp up training hours or training intensity (only it's much easier since TSS includes both).

500-600 TSS/wk is a fairly mild training load. Back when you were doing 15 hr/wk on the bike, I'm sure your TSS was much greater than 500/wk. Even if all 15 hrs were at an IF=.75, that would yield 843 TSS/wk, so your gut feel that your training load is much lower this week is correct. 2x10 in zone 4 doesn't yield a lot of training stress. Sometimes after a 2x20 set, I'll do another 30 minutes of Tempo just to reach my TSS goal for the ride. I feel ~125 TSS/day on average is a sustainable load for me without pushing too much.

I have been monitoring my TSS points for about 6 months and have developed increasing confidence in what it represents -- a linear value that consolidates ride duration and intensity relative to FT. It is helpful to build a spreadsheet and work out several hypothetical rides to see the relative impact of duration and intensity. One thing to be a little cautious about is that as you increase duration the difficulty of a ride is not quite linear IMO. For example, I structure my rides to attain specific minutes in each level, L4-L7, as well as a total ride NP. But, my max power declines over time (as everybody's does) and continues to decline after 1 hour. My estimate is ~5% decline in MP for each hour after 1 hr. So, my 2hr MP is ~95%FT, my 3hr MP is ~90%FT, etc. Typically, I have a target NP of 85%FT for a 1 hr ride, ~80%FT for a 2hr ride, 75%FT for a 3hr ride, etc. But, TSS uses FT irrespective of the ride duration. No big deal, but I think a 300 TSS points ride is more than 2x as difficult as a 150 TSS points ride.

RapDaddyo said:

I have been monitoring my TSS points for about 6 months and have developed increasing confidence in what it represents -- a linear value that consolidates ride duration and intensity relative to FT. It is helpful to build a spreadsheet and work out several hypothetical rides to see the relative impact of duration and intensity. One thing to be a little cautious about is that as you increase duration the difficulty of a ride is not quite linear IMO. For example, I structure my rides to attain specific minutes in each level, L4-L7, as well as a total ride NP. But, my max power declines over time (as everybody's does) and continues to decline after 1 hour. My estimate is ~5% decline in MP for each hour after 1 hr. So, my 2hr MP is ~95%FT, my 3hr MP is ~90%FT, etc. Typically, I have a target NP of 85%FT for a 1 hr ride, ~80%FT for a 2hr ride, 75%FT for a 3hr ride, etc. But, TSS uses FT irrespective of the ride duration. No big deal, but I think a 300 TSS points ride is more than 2x as difficult as a 150 TSS points ride.

RD,
on your last point. FT is FT is FT (^TM). Andy's training levels already account for the fact that longer rides imply lower power.

Scaling/normalizing things to one's FT is just a way of normalizing the work to one's current hour capacity. It's like scaling an electrical system to generation capacity. Just plain ole scaling to make it easy to compare TSS scores from training year to year, or season to season, or from rider to rider.

AC can describe things better than I ...

rmur

BlueJersey said:

. I started off my off season doing close to 15 hours a week though. I just feel I should try to get more training hours.

TSS is very enlightening isn't it?

beerco said:

TSS is very enlightening isn't it?

How do you guys calc TSS on a weekly basis - I use CP but is there an easy way to tally it?

Also some of my rides do not have power (tandem or races) so how can I factor these in to my weekly TSS score ?

Thanks

Peter

peterwright said:

How do you guys calc TSS on a weekly basis - I use CP but is there an easy way to tally it?

Also some of my rides do not have power (tandem or races) so how can I factor these in to my weekly TSS score ?

Thanks

Peter

To calculate weekly values for TSS, hours, miles, etc. take a plot of the variable vs. time (either an existing one or a new one) and go to modify this plot/details. There is a box for days per data point, change this value to 7, and you'll get a plot of the seven day total for the variable. The numeric value can ge gotten by putting the cursor over thee data point. The seven days for each point begin with the first day of the time range being plotted so if you want a Monday-Sunday total make sure the first day in the range falls on a Monday. For example, I plot weekly totals throughout the season so I make sure my season begins on a Monday.

You may be doing this already, but if not, reading the cyclingpeakssoftware.com/forum gives lots of useful tips for using the features of CP.

peterwright said:

Also some of my rides do not have power (tandem or races) so how can I factor these in to my weekly TSS score ?

Mathematically, the TSS formula can be simplified to IF^2 x 100 points x ride duration in hours.
During my ride planning, I like to get a feel for approximately how many hours I'll need to get a certain TSS value, so I use data from Andy's chart on page 11 of peakscoachinggroup.comPowerTrainingChapter.pdfOpen ↗ to approximate as follows:
Endurance Ride - IF ~ .8, TSS ~ 65 pts/hr
Tempo Ride / Hard group ride - IF ~ .9, TSS ~ 80 pts/hr
Threshold Ride - IF ~ 1.0, TSS ~ 100 pts/hr

Above threshold, the recovery durations have a bigger impact on NP than the work power, so I use a separate spreadsheet to approximate IF for a certain routine. Anyway, you're probably not asking about higher intensity rides, so I hope the above helps.

peterwright said:

How do you guys calc TSS on a weekly basis - I use CP but is there an easy way to tally it?

Peter

I've added a custom chart to my Athlete Home Page. Uses the whole season starting from day 1 of my seasonal plan. Plot on a bar graph TSS with 7 days per data point. I'll post it (can't right now) later if you want to see)

Thanks for the help guys - have got the 7 day chart setting working well but still struggling with non power tap rides and how to factor them.

peterwright said:

Thanks for the help guys - have got the 7 day chart setting working well but still struggling with non power tap rides and how to factor them.

Unless you know the NP of the ride, it's guesswork at best.

frenchyge said:

Unless you know the NP of the ride, it's guesswork at best.

I haven't had the need to do this, but if I did have the need to include non-PT rides for TSS purposes, I would build an Excel workbook with a set of macros or VBA code to generate workout files as per a set of inputs such as total minutes by level. So, if I did a ride that consisted of 2x20s at 100%FT with 5 mins recovery between each 20, that's how I would put it in and then the macros or code would generate the workout file. Import the file into CP and you're done. With the right macros or code, should be a 3 minute procedure. Or, if you're fluent in C or BASIC, just write a small program and generate a csv file.

Spunout said:

I've added a custom chart to my Athlete Home Page. Uses the whole season starting from day 1 of my seasonal plan. Plot on a bar graph TSS with 7 days per data point. I'll post it (can't right now) later if you want to see)

Thanks spunout
i had it at 1 day 7 days makes more analytical sense

RapDaddyo said:

I haven't had the need to do this, but if I did have the need to include non-PT rides for TSS purposes, I would build an Excel workbook with a set of macros or VBA code to generate workout files as per a set of inputs such as total minutes by level. So, if I did a ride that consisted of 2x20s at 100%FT with 5 mins recovery between each 20, that's how I would put it in and then the macros or code would generate the workout file. Import the file into CP and you're done. With the right macros or code, should be a 3 minute procedure. Or, if you're fluent in C or BASIC, just write a small program and generate a csv file.

That'd be a good way to get the ride TSS to feed into all the charts and such, for sure. For a structured ride, I might have an inkling of the minutes by level, but for an unstructured ride I think guessing the overall zone would be easier than guessing minutes by level.

IMO, the estimation guidelines I posted above work pretty well. I'd guess anyone who's been using power for a couple months or more would have a good feel near the end of a ride which zone their total ride NP would fall into. Even if you're off by an entire zone, that's only a difference of 15-20 TSS/hr. If that amount still bothers someone, they can even split the zones into upper/middle/lower by zone and use the IF estimations from Andy's paper. TSS still equals IF^2 x 100 x hours, and for TSS purposes there's no need to account for how the minutes were generated -- overall ride IF works fine.

frenchyge said:

That'd be a good way to get the ride TSS to feed into all the charts and such, for sure. For a structured ride, I might have an inkling of the minutes by level, but for an unstructured ride I think guessing the overall zone would be easier than guessing minutes by level.

IMO, the estimation guidelines I posted above work pretty well. I'd guess anyone who's been using power for a couple months or more would have a good feel near the end of a ride which zone their total ride NP would fall into. Even if you're off by an entire zone, that's only a difference of 15-20 TSS/hr. If that amount still bothers someone, they can even split the zones into upper/middle/lower by zone and use the IF estimations from Andy's paper. TSS still equals IF^2 x 100 x hours, and for TSS purposes there's no need to account for how the minutes were generated -- overall ride IF works fine.

You could generate a workout file either way. But, I don't know a way to get a ride into CP other than to import a csv file as I was describing. Do you know a way to input a ride with just summary stats (e.g., total duration, IF, TSS, etc.)?

RapDaddyo said:

You could generate a workout file either way. But, I don't know a way to get a ride into CP other than to import a csv file as I was describing. Do you know a way to input a ride with just summary stats (e.g., total duration, IF, TSS, etc.)?

Don't know a way to do that, unless Dave gives you out the code to work in the back end.

Hijack: To enter a workout where you do not have PT data, is it possible to save a few benchmark or standard .wko files and then re-import them as new workouts?

For example, a 2 hour endurance ride could be used to proxy a cross or MTB ride (or even a 2 hour easy ski) so that TSS can be tracked and we wouldn't have all of those ugly gaps our data.

Spunout said:

Don't know a way to do that, unless Dave gives you out the code to work in the back end.

Hijack: To enter a workout where you do not have PT data, is it possible to save a few benchmark or standard .wko files and then re-import them as new workouts?

For example, a 2 hour endurance ride could be used to proxy a cross or MTB ride (or even a 2 hour easy ski) so that TSS can be tracked and we wouldn't have all of those ugly gaps our data.

I think that, one way or the other, the system needs a workout file. I think the charts are created "on-the-fly," which is why you can change FT and re-do all the charts. If it was using summary stats (e.g., TSS), then changing FT wouldn't change the charts for previous rides. I come back to my thought of a quick and dirty workout file generator, based on a few inputs such as minutes at each level. If I get a few spare minutes watching a football game over the holidays, I'll write something and post it here.

Spunout said:

Don't know a way to do that, unless Dave gives you out the code to work in the back end.

Hijack: To enter a workout where you do not have PT data, is it possible to save a few benchmark or standard .wko files and then re-import them as new workouts?

For example, a 2 hour endurance ride could be used to proxy a cross or MTB ride (or even a 2 hour easy ski) so that TSS can be tracked and we wouldn't have all of those ugly gaps our data.

Or you could transfer the TSS values from CP and enter them into a spreadsheet. For the two hour MTB ride or ski session you could guessimate what the TSS might have been. You'll have to determine if this tracks your training stresses well enough to be useful.

Here are a couple of links from the wattage group that may be of interest:

http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read/message.html?mid=909272952

http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read/message.html?mid=909502943

greg

Spunout said:

Hijack: To enter a workout where you do not have PT data, is it possible to save a few benchmark or standard .wko files and then re-import them as new workouts?

Special Forces Response Team: Yes, and I'm pretty sure that's the help file suggested method. Take the benchmark workout (or any other workout on the ride calendar of similar duration and power) and change the *workout date* (that's important) and power values as desired to reflect the new ride, then hit 'Save As' and enter the new file name desired (best to stick with the existing naming convention). Close the workout and voila, the new modified ride now shows up on the calendar.

frenchyge said:

Special Forces Response Team: Yes, and I'm pretty sure that's the help file suggested method. Take the benchmark workout (or any other workout on the ride calendar of similar duration and power) and change the *workout date* (that's important) and power values as desired to reflect the new ride, then hit 'Save As' and enter the new file name desired (best to stick with the existing naming convention). Close the workout and voila, the new modified ride now shows up on the calendar.

Cool. Perfect fix, I figured there was an easy way as opposed to building the file in Excel. I could even copy benchmark workouts into another directory, go there and open them to import them into my default .wko directory when wanting to add one.

thanks!