Training Week Ending October 28, 2007

10/22 run 0:45 very easy 140' cinder
bike 0:28 easy
10/23 run 1:19 easy 70% 1120' mostly hiking trails
10/24 run 0:46 very easy 140' cinder
10/25 run 1:09 easy/mod 74% 1120' mostly hiking trails
10/26 run 0:41 very easy 140' cinder
10/27 run 2:15 easy 71% 1700' mostly hiking trails
10/28 bike, probably

6:55 running, 4360' climb

I'm enjoying running more in October rather than recovering from a 50 miler
like in '05 and '06. Soggy run today on trails. Same run Tues and Thurs, but
opposite directions and 20 degrees cooler on Thurs.

Goals:
Maybe some short races this Fall.
Build base for next year, with more specificity: hiking trails and hills,
unless and until they get post-holed snow cover.
First avoid getting fat over the holidays, then lose weight.

In article <QtPUi.439$sZ.336@trndny04>,

Tony S. said:

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Easy week.

Wed: 2 miles
Fri: 2 1/4 miles.

DNR the rest of the week.

Next week, I get back into training, with the goal of running in a ten
mile race on December 2nd.

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:18:46 -0700, Michelle <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <QtPUi.439$sZ.336@trndny04>,

Tony S. said:

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Easy week.

Wed: 2 miles
Fri: 2 1/4 miles.

DNR the rest of the week.

Next week, I get back into training, with the goal of running in a ten
mile race on December 2nd.

Note: I'm in rest mode in prep for my operation. I have my nutsack
wired up in prep for the big day.

Michelle (soon to REALLY be a Michelle)

"Tony S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:mGPUi.4455$8R1.944@trndny02...

Quoted message said:

Goals:
Maybe some short races this Fall.

How about " After the Leaves" 20k at Minnewaska State Park next Sunday
at 11 am. Unless your going to be in NYC with r.r's resident
self-appointed elite runner Lance. 😉 It's a beautiful course. If
you're interested let me know so I can send you entry form with the info
and you can sign up race day if you want to wait.

-Doug

Doug Freese said:

"Tony S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Unless your going to be in NYC with r.r's resident
self-appointed elite runner Lance. 😉
-Doug

_

....yes at about 8am this morning in Central Park dressed in black
loose running pants / black loose full sleeve length top, and a black
knit cap was Marilson Gomes dos Santos, where else, in the Harlem
Hills. When the elites are here - they come to the Harlem Hills
within Central Park. He was not running fast at all either.

Tony S. would be better of coming to NYC next weekend and watching the
US Olympic Trials on Saturday and the NYC Marathon on Sunday (and
enjoying the Marathon Expo). It'll motivate the hell out of him just
to soak up the atmosphere of it - and he can watch on Saturday the 13
Hanson-Brooks Distance Project runners that qualified for the Trials,
largest running club presence ever!

Of course Doug Freese has "dissed" the Hanson Bros. on this ng etc.
but they have produced the #1 distance running team/program in the USA
in having 13 guys make the trails.

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tony S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:mGPUi.4455$8R1.944@trndny02...

Quoted message said:

Goals:
Maybe some short races this Fall.

How about " After the Leaves" 20k at Minnewaska State Park next Sunday at
11 am. Unless your going to be in NYC with r.r's resident self-appointed
elite runner Lance. 😉 It's a beautiful course. If you're interested let
me know so I can send you entry form with the info and you can sign up
race day if you want to wait.

-Doug

Yea, those carriage roads have great scenery! If I come I won't race it,
and probably take 2+ hours. I'm just building base for now, though I don't
rule out a very short race like 5k. For me that kind of terrain is certainly
somewhat interesting, but is more built for easy mountain biking IMO; it
takes tricky singletrack to really motivate me to run. Hell, I hated running
until I tried orienteering, and have never taken a liking to normal running.
Yes, it's a mental thing -- I feel like a fish out of water on roads or even
easy cinder paths.

-Tony

"LSmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Freese said:

"Tony S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Unless your going to be in NYC with r.r's resident
self-appointed elite runner Lance. 😉
-Doug

_

...yes at about 8am this morning in Central Park dressed in black
loose running pants / black loose full sleeve length top, and a black
knit cap was Marilson Gomes dos Santos, where else, in the Harlem
Hills. When the elites are here - they come to the Harlem Hills
within Central Park. He was not running fast at all either.

Tony S. would be better of coming to NYC next weekend and watching the
US Olympic Trials on Saturday and the NYC Marathon on Sunday (and
enjoying the Marathon Expo). It'll motivate the hell out of him just
to soak up the atmosphere of it - and he can watch on Saturday the 13
Hanson-Brooks Distance Project runners that qualified for the Trials,
largest running club presence ever!

Spectating at running events is fine for after a race, watching others
finish, but is far better while running the race oneself. Sure I love being
around other runners, but I actually feel a bit like I do when I'm around
bike riders -- I bike but I'm not a bike rider primarily, and I run, but I'm
not a runner primarily: at heart I'm still an orienteerer. It just so
happens that technical trails also provide some large measure of enjoyment.

Quoted message said:

Of course Doug Freese has "dissed" the Hanson Bros. on this ng etc.
but they have produced the #1 distance running team/program in the USA
in having 13 guys make the trails.

If they're the same Hansons that Charlie has spoken of, then I like some of
their training philosophy, though in my sport specificity is still more
important than miles. If you're going to race for hours in the mountains,
you have to train running for hours in the mountains, period.

Lance, how about posting your last 2 months of training and what you're
doing for a taper? Held up to 100 mile weeks? More power too you if so, and
good luck next weekend!

-Tony

Tony S. said:

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

7 week Marathon Training program
Week 7 - 5 100 mpw
Week 4 - 3 110 mpw
Week 2 60 mpw
Week 1 25 Miles + 26.2 NYCM race

605 miles the 7 weeks before race day.

Goals: To finish in the top 1000 (last year that took a 3:02:18) to
finish in the top 200 of my Age Group 40-44 would take about the same
thing. These are the prime goals - others that would still be
satisfying:

1) 7min/mile or 3:03:30 created from a +3% pos split hitting the Half
at 1:28 30
2) Not losing the race by more than 1 hour (3:08 - 3:10 - this is my
final fall back goal).

3) Closing last year's gap on Lance Armstrong of 12 min & 45 secs or
so
4) Closing last year's gap on Dean Karnazes of 11 min & 45 secs or so

BMI on race day will be 23. Thinking about foregoing wearing a racing
flat and opting for a Asics Gel Kayano XII cushion shoe which will be
less fatiguing and demanding - I plan to midsole strike the first 16
miles not cranking the turnover until mile 5 or so and if I can land
in Manhattan (16 Mile Mark) at 1:50 feeling "rested" - the plan is to
ball strike the the back half of the race extending my stride and
ridin' it till the wheels roll off. I think I can run this course,
this distance, pretty close to "even".

Tony S. said:

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Mon: Still last week.
Tue: DNR. Weights.
Wed: 10k
Thu: 10k
Fri: 14k
Sat: 12k
Sun 23k

Total: 69km (43 miles)

A few late runs this week (>9pm). I seem to be feeling pretty good at
that time of day, does lead to an odd schedule though. Legs feeling a
bit tired on the long run earlier, getting used to the mileage and
running 5 days in a row. Otherwise generally feeling great.

Goal: run seventysomething km/week for at least the next month, and
perhaps around 80km/week for December.

Intend to switch to running 6 days a week next week, by shortening
recovery runs.

- Nicholas.

Forgot to mention, 75% of my 605 Miles was on the Bridal trail path in
NYC's Central Park. I did not think my knees could take this measure
of day - in, day - out pounding on road. Plus - I was more prone to a
repetitive motion injury on the road - whereas on the trail each
strike is unique and calls for unique muscular management/negotiation
- Yes, I ran 2-a days, every day - no rest day until last week in my 2
week taper.

Most of these miles were clocked in Asics Nimbus 8 & Spira Del Sol
shoes. I fell twice whilst running at about a 6:30 min/mile pace.
Tripping in total darkness on the trail on a root - slammed down
pretty damn hard, fortunately only my ego was momentarily injured. 2
very close calls though - scared the [censored] out of me, I could not
believe it when I fell. Real humbling experiences - I got smart and
bought a Browning Black Ice 3 Watt HeadLamp! No kidding.

So yep, at 5am in the morning and at 9pm some nights I was on trail
road in Central park looking like a miner - but able to see where my
foot was striking. You gotta be crazy to run trails at night without
a headlamp - no way. You will see 3 or 4 people on the Bridal Path in
Central park with headlamps on every morning.

I have a new found respect for your trail runners though - it's also a
hell of a lot of fun, I admit it, okay? I can feeel how my muscles
all around and above my ankles have strengthened having to constantly
adjust to unique striking surfaces/angles.

"LSmith" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

7 week Marathon Training program
Week 7 - 5 100 mpw
Week 4 - 3 110 mpw
Week 2 60 mpw
Week 1 25 Miles + 26.2 NYCM race

605 miles the 7 weeks before race day.

Quoted message said:

BMI on race day will be 23.

What is that, an improvement of 1 bmi unit or about 8-10 lbs? That alone is
worth 20+ seconds/mile...

Congrats on putting it together without falling apart. The trails make a
big difference, no? When I switched over to trails, I found that 95 mpw on
trails felt easier than 70 on the pavement. Much less soreness per mile
run -- and more fun, with hills, turns, eyes on the terrain, etc. During a
race I can focus on a long straightaway on a paved road, but it's sooo
boring when training.

Did you do speed / fartleck / tempo / hard-easy, or any combination of the
above? I'm interested in how you fit in various workout types, and
approximate paces of some of your key runs. (to put in my training/coaching
mental database)

Finally, did your legendary mentor TC give you advice?

Did you do any race checkpoints (5k/10k tests?).

Quoted message said:

Thinking about foregoing wearing a racing
flat and opting for a Asics Gel Kayano XII cushion shoe which will be
less fatiguing and demanding

Question is, how much heavier are they? If you're used to training and long
runs in your flats, why not go for it? A heavier shoe is definitely
demanding -- of your pace. Why penalize yourself 2-3 minutes? At mile 24,
you'll wish you had those 2-3 minutes back. It's only musculo-skeletal
pain, which will be in abundance then anyway.

Just don't get dehydrated and cramp -- remember to drink -- that will ruin
your day as much as hitting the first few miles too hard.

Quoted message said:

I plan to midsole strike the first 16
miles not cranking the turnover until mile 5 or so and if I can land
in Manhattan (16 Mile Mark) at 1:50 feeling "rested" - the plan is to
ball strike the the back half of the race extending my stride and
ridin' it till the wheels roll off.

I focus on maintaining 'till 20, then letting it all hang out...In my best
races, this meant I slowed only a tiny amount, despite the increased effort.
I had one bad experience pushing the pace at 15-16, and haven't done that
since. If you don't blow it in the early miles, your base will give you
plenty of strength when the going gets tough.

Anyway, best of luck!

Goal: California International Marathon Dec 2.

Mon: 0 Fire smoke, brown skies. Drove out to my starting point and bagged
it.
Tue: 9 easy, smoky
Wed: 10 easy, smoky
Thu: 6.5 hike. Really smoky. This sucks!
Fri: 0 Really smoky.
Sat: 20, 4000' climb. Drove to Santa Barbara & had a strong mtn run under
clear skies
Sun: 8.5, 200' climb easy 8:50 pace. Finally blue skies in LA!

54 miles. What rotten luck, trying to run a good marathon and getting
socked in for a whole week by wildfire smoke!

Hopefully I didn't lose much this week.

Here's a pic of my last race -- Pt Mugu 11k, about a mile above the finish,
coming out of a 180 turn. No, that is not a superman cape, just my shirt
around my neck.

http://tinyurl.com/38zjst

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:04:16 GMT, "Tony S." <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

goals: dunno, maybe just keep on because that's what I've been doing,
that's what I do. on the other hand, maybe my goal is to finish
beating myself up about today's half-marathon, then move on. upcoming
races: 10K Nov 22; marathon Dec 16.

summery weather continues, though occasionally it does dip below
70F/90% RH for a few minutes.

M: AM 8mi (8:53), PM 4mi (8:47)
T: 8mi (8:38)
W: AM 8mi (8:37), PM 3mi (8:46)
R: AM 10mi incl 8x400 (avg 87s) w/descending rests (90s --> 30s), PM:
5mi (8:51)
F: 8mi (8:44)
Sa: 6mi (8:53)
Su: 16.38 incl half-marathon (1:31:17, 3F, some $ but I am still not
happy with the time)

total: 76.5 miles

As this morning's half-marathon recedes into the past I am more and
more unhappy with it, and more and more inclined to beat myself up
over it. Sure it was warm, and there was a headwind the first half,
and I was (strangely) hungry and outta-gas-feeling for a bit after 8
miles, and running alone from 7 miles on. But I've been running a lot
and training well, and I really thought sub-90 would be a certainty,
and I had a good plan and tried to execute it and, well, look what
happened. Who was it who said that people who can't break 90 for a
half on 70+ miles a week should just give up? Something tells me I
may not like the answer, but I am beginning to wonder if that person
is a little bit right.

anyway, good week all

Karen

live! vicariously!

LSmith said:

7 week Marathon Training program
Week 7 - 5 100 mpw
Week 4 - 3 110 mpw
Week 2 60 mpw
Week 1 25 Miles + 26.2 NYCM race

605 miles the 7 weeks before race day.

Goals: To finish in the top 1000 (last year that took a 3:02:18) to
finish in the top 200 of my Age Group 40-44 would take about the same
thing. These are the prime goals - others that would still be
satisfying:

1) 7min/mile or 3:03:30 created from a +3% pos split hitting the Half
at 1:28 30
2) Not losing the race by more than 1 hour (3:08 - 3:10 - this is my
final fall back goal).

3) Closing last year's gap on Lance Armstrong of 12 min & 45 secs or
so
4) Closing last year's gap on Dean Karnazes of 11 min & 45 secs or so

BMI on race day will be 23. Thinking about foregoing wearing a racing
flat and opting for a Asics Gel Kayano XII cushion shoe which will be
less fatiguing and demanding - I plan to midsole strike the first 16
miles not cranking the turnover until mile 5 or so and if I can land
in Manhattan (16 Mile Mark) at 1:50 feeling "rested" - the plan is to
ball strike the the back half of the race extending my stride and
ridin' it till the wheels roll off. I think I can run this course,
this distance, pretty close to "even".

Glad you posted this, Lance. I'm sure there were more than a few of
us interested in knowing. If you've made it a full week since the end
of your back-to-back 100+ weeks, you are hopefully in the clear,
injury-wise. Nice job, and the "hay's in the barn", as they say.

If you can rein yourself in over the first half (pretty sure there's a
bridle path joke here somewhere), keep it somewhere around 1:29:30 to
1:30:00, this should set you up for a slightly better overall time.
You'll still have just as good a chance as ever to break 3 hr (and
don't even pretend this isn't in the back of your mind) without
banking time, probably more.

Pretty good thread here on letsrun if you haven't seen it yet (even
includes some content courtesy of our own CP):
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2165308

My person opinion is that you should run this thing in some "fast"
shoes. Raceday is here, and the need to protect your legs over the
long training miles has come and gone. Now let 'er rip. I'm not
saying 5k or 10k flats here, but rather some very lightweight
trainers. I'm pretty sure we're close to the same weight if you've
cut down to a 23 BMI (I'm around 158-160), and I used adidas
Rotterdams for my 2 marathons this year, both hilly. For Pete's sake,
though -- wear some damn socks!

Good luck,
Tom B. (Lance Fan)

In article <[email hidden]>,

D Stumpus said:

Goal: California International Marathon Dec 2.

A friend of mine will be running in that race. She's trying for a BQ.

In article <[email hidden]>,

joe positive said:

Who was it who said that people who can't break 90 for a half on 70+
miles a week should just give up? Something tells me I may not like
the answer, but I am beginning to wonder if that person is a little
bit right.

At the Nike Women's HM last week, Joan Benoit Samuelson did 1:30:16;
should she give up? Brandi Chastain did 1:47:47; should she give up?

No, you shouldn't give up; you're joe positive.

D Stumpus said:

"LSmith" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Did you do speed / fartleck / tempo / hard-easy, or any combination of the
above?

every now & then some hill repeats - that's it. i'm convinced the
NYCM course is a "strength" race more than a race serving the fleet-a-
foot. the course favors the strongest runners. i found myself
deciding to invest more time fatiguing myself with 2-a-days & wanting
to clock 100mpw than doing anything else. I went 5 weeks never taking
a day off, I ran a "2-a-day" at least 5 days a week. I made it a
point to complete my 100 or 110 mpw goal on the 7th day morning -
giving me 24 hours of rest before the next training week started. So
I start my training week on Sat morn, I would complete the 100 or 110
by Friday morn. But I usually trained on 10 - 12 hours rest. I
don't feel I put in any junk or vanity miles. I focused on what would
make me runner "strong" on the back end of the race. I felt the 2-a-
days + 100 weekly miles would better serve that objective, we'll see.

Quoted message said:

Finally, did your legendary mentor TC give you advice?

Yep, Ted is 88 now. In '56 he clocked 200 mpw for 10 weeks then did 2
or 3 weeks of speed training leading up to the Olympic marathon trials
which were then held as part of the Boston Marathon. He ran 2:28 &
took 6th place.

Quoted message said:

Did you do any race checkpoints (5k/10k tests?)

nope.

Quoted message said:

Question is, how much heavier are they?

11.5 oz.

Quoted message said:

If you're used to training and long
runs in your flats, why not go for it? A heavier shoe is definitely
demanding -- of your pace.

Excellent point - but remember, I see this as a strength race - and a
less fatiguing shoe might be more helpful. I am thinking of this race
in terms of the shoe I want on in miles 21 - 26, not so much the first
half of the race. For me the calculation is which shoe will preserve
strength for the back half of the race. A flat with minimal or no
support might come with a fatigue tax. Just because you can wear a
flat in this race does not mean it's the wise move - I've noted plenty
of 2:45 guys in this race in full blown stability & cushion shoes.
But who knows - I have brand new pairs of MayFlys, NB RC740, &
Fastswitch shoes - I've ran Halfs in all of them well - if it's going
to be a "dry day elements wise I might just whip out the Mayflys".
I'm no DK, but I keep in mind he did that 3:00:30 last year in this
race in the North Face e50 trail shoe (13 oz.).

I think in this race, on this course, there is something to be said
for a shoe that gets you to mile 20 with less fatigue. It's not
just a sheer equation of the benefits of a flat.

Yup, I am relying on the Running Gods & Running Smarts. I'm thinking
about lining up with and packing with the 3:10 pace group for the
first 5 miles - just to make sure I start out measured - without
having to "think" or be "aware or concerned". I want to get into a
relaxed mental zone. We'll see - but I feel good about it.

Thanks Dan.

10/23: 4.5 miles
10/24: weights, swim .5 mile
wimped out the rest of the week because of rain and work, but was also
resting for-
10/28: 15 mile Philly marathon "tuneup" with Northeast Roadrunners, although
I'm not doing the marathon. Shooting for one in the spring, I'm definitely
not ready yet

"Tony S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:QtPUi.439$sZ.336@trndny04...

Quoted message said:

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Tony S. said:

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Runs: 5
Miles: 38.4
Long: 11.2
Time: 5:59

I finally bought a new pair of shoes. I had four pairs in rotation and
three of them had more than 600 miles so I thought if I'm going to
start upping the mileage maybe it's time for a new pair. I tried on a
bunch, liked them all, bought the cheapest (Saucony Ride 5s). But the
Asics Gel Speedstar IIs were really nice - super light but still
cushioned like a regular trainer - but I'll wait to pick up a pair
when they go on sale closer to when I'll have more use for them.

Plans: 5k on Thanksgiving, something longer in mid to late winter.