Training Week Ending May 28, 2006

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

My weeks end on Saturday again, so I can be first!

goals: continue slogging through mileage buildup; make it until my massage
therapist comes back from vacation week after next. Upcoming races:
probably a 3-miler and a 4-miler in mid-July; 15K Sept 2; marathon Sept 30.

Su: 20.06mi (8:17)
M: 8mi (9:43)
T: AM 14mi (9:23), PM 4mi (8:32) + 15min elliptical (1.87mi)
W: PM 10mi (8:00)
R: AM 10mi (9:38)
F: 12.15mi (9:12)
Sa: 14mi (8:46)

total: 92.15mi running, 1.87mi elliptical

yeah yeah, I know it's damn slow. I run faster with my pals (Wednesdays &
Sundays) but only manage a slow slog when I'm alone. After a few more
weeks of this I'll drop back to upper 70s and start working on strength.

good week all

Karen

--
live! vicariously!

joe positive said:

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

My weeks end on Saturday again, so I can be first!

goals: continue slogging through mileage buildup; make it until my massage
therapist comes back from vacation week after next. Upcoming races:
probably a 3-miler and a 4-miler in mid-July; 15K Sept 2; marathon Sept 30.

Su: 20.06mi (8:17)
M: 8mi (9:43)
T: AM 14mi (9:23), PM 4mi (8:32) + 15min elliptical (1.87mi)
W: PM 10mi (8:00)
R: AM 10mi (9:38)
F: 12.15mi (9:12)
Sa: 14mi (8:46)

total: 92.15mi running, 1.87mi elliptical

yeah yeah, I know it's damn slow. I run faster with my pals (Wednesdays &
Sundays) but only manage a slow slog when I'm alone. After a few more
weeks of this I'll drop back to upper 70s and start working on strength.

good week all

Karen

holy [censored]! I guess you don't hold with the idea that anything over 45
miles a week is suppose to be moot?

peace
jeff

"America is at that awkward stage.
It's too late to work within the system,
but too early to shoot the [censored].

Claire Wolf

Quoted message said:

holy [censored]! I guess you don't hold with the idea that anything over 45
miles a week is suppose to be moot?

I think it depends on the person and what they're training for.

--
Phil M.

Phil M. said:

Quoted message said:

holy [censored]! I guess you don't hold with the idea that anything over 45
miles a week is suppose to be moot?

I think it depends on the person and what they're training for.

--
Phil M.

so I guess the question is,karen,what are you training for? Leadeville?
Wow, that is impressive. Kind of hurts thinking about it though.
peace
jeff

Now I don't know but I've been told
It's hard to run with the weight of gold
Other hand I heard it said
It's just as hard with the weight of lead

robert hunter

Quoted message said:

Phil M. said:

Quoted message said:

holy [censored]! I guess you don't hold with the idea that anything over 45
miles a week is suppose to be moot?

I think it depends on the person and what they're training for.

--
Phil M.

so I guess the question is,karen,what are you training for?

you could read the goals portion of her post, where I think she answers
that question.

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

friend of the devil said:

holy [censored]! I guess you don't hold with the idea that anything
over 45 miles a week is suppose to be moot?

Whose idea is that?

And what's the context for "suppose (sic) to be moot"? Race
performance? General cardiovascular health? What?

joe positive said:

My weeks end on Saturday again, so I can be first!

Mine probably has too, this time around. Damndest thing: a couple
hours after my easy run, standing up after eating brunch in the French
place down the street, I'm struck with pain in my lower lower back
(sacrum) out of nowhere.

Well maybe not nowhere: I've had just a touch of soreness in what's
probably my hamstring attachment a few days. A little ice, a little
massage, it seemed to be under control. I'm guessing it's probably
related.

Anyhow I'll probably end up taking tomorrow off. Too bad; I was
planning to be over 100 km again after four low weeks. Assuming no
Sunday long run, the week totals to

52.00 sacrally shortened miles, as

Mo AM: 5.10 recovery (from Sat race + Sun long run)
PM: 4.15 recovery; girl scout cookies not sitting well

Tu AM: 3.95 recovery
PM: 4.15 recovery; girl scout cookies force pit stop

We AM: 7.00 w/ 3.35 tempo. Effort was probably harder than it should
be (it was darn near all-out 3.35 time trial effort) but pace
was, as usual, slower (6:41, allegedly more like my 25k pace)
than most authors and pace calculators consider my tempo pace.
That's OK, just interesting to note that I seem to have a wider
gap between what I can do in a solo workout vs. in a race than
some.

Th AM: 6.50 easy

Fr AM: 8.50 w/ 5x840m intervals, 3:05-3:17. See note above regarding
slow workouts. 'Twas a bit muggy for the first time I recall
this year, but not *that* muggy. I just couldn't run fast, and
got slower at the same effort level each time around.
PM: 4.15 recovery

Sa AM: 8.50 easy - first half extremely easy, then merely easy. No
strain; felt fine during run including hamstring attachment,
which I iced afterward. Two hours later I'm uncomfortable
walking.

Su DNR (injury)

upcoming
--------
- race or two in June, haven't picked it/them yet
- goal races = Utica Boilermaker 9 Jul; NYCM 5 Nov
- epic road trip likely post-Boilermaker; watch out American
rec.runners!

Quoted message said:

friend of the devil said:

holy [censored]! I guess you don't hold with the idea that anything
over 45 miles a week is suppose to be moot?

Whose idea is that?

And what's the context for "suppose (sic) to be moot"? Race
performance? General cardiovascular health? What?

http://familydoctor.org/147.xml

I'm certainly not presuming what is right and what is not. I am just
asking in reference to what seems to be at least somewhat discussed
elesewhere . And as someone who has only been running,er jogging a year
or so, I can appreciate what effort and intensity 90 plus miles a week
can be. Not to mention a great job.
peace
jeff

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=running+over+45+miles+a+week&btnG=Google+Search

Dot said:

Quoted message said:

Phil M. said:

wrote:

>holy [censored]! I guess you don't hold with the idea that anything over 45
>miles a week is suppose to be moot?

I think it depends on the person and what they're training for.

--
Phil M.

so I guess the question is,karen,what are you training for?

you could read the goals portion of her post, where I think she answers
that question.

your right i see that. Thankyou. So one has to run 90 miles a week to
train for a marathon? ouch! I'll never be able to do that. shoot!

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

so I guess the question is,karen,what are you training for?
Leadeville?

It's Leadville 😉 and no she is currently maxed at marathons although I
do wonder how many miles she would do if she did want to try a 50 mile
race much less a 100 at elevation.

-DF

devilish fiend said:

http://familydoctor.org/147.xml

Actually the tips in that "how to prevent an overuse injury" section
other than "there is little evidence that running more than 45 miles
per week improves your performance" all look good.

But as for that 45 mile limit, well, someone better notify the vast
majority of halfway serious distance runners from the mile on up.
Methinks you'll have trouble finding many contenders at decent sized
road races let alone nationally or internationally competitive road or
track runners who excel on less than 200 miles a month. Milage varies
(groan), but typically more like double or triple that for a top class
marathon runner.

In fact one of the first hits from the google search in yr message -
http://healthresearch.lbl.gov/alcohol.html - seems to specifically
advocate running better than 45 mpw in conjunction with a little daily
drinking. Good news for some of us, perhaps most notably Doug!

BTW, if you stumble over to the letsrun.com message board - home of
some very serious racers along with thousands of unemployed
twentysomethings living in their moms' basements pretending to be
serious racers - you'll learn that if you don't run a hundred miles a
week, you suck. ;-)

Quoted message said:

And as someone who has only been running,er jogging a year or so

I'm a couple years ahead of you, recently passing my third year
anniversary of logging my miles - at about which time I impressed the
hell out of myself by going a whole three miles without stopping.

My experience was that it took a couple years for my body (muscles,
tendons, whatever else) to handle 40-45 mpw or more including some fast
bits *without* getting injured in the process. Well, my body and my
mind: a lot of that time represented a learning curve during which I
gradually - and with much help from the fine folks at rec.running -
sorted out many of the factors behind my frequent state of injury.
Speaking of which, surely you've read this 20 times recently but let me
add the 21st - running downhill is *brutal* on your body, moreso if
it's fast and/or hard surface. You need to do some of it to prepare
for racing downhill, but treat it as a poison to which you become
immunized in gradual increments, not just as a thrilling joyride.

That "10% a week" rule? It's one reasonable rule-of-thumb upper limit
but it's assuredly *not* an indicator of what you might be able to
sustain week in and week out. Anyone, and especially those of us who
aren't so young any more, who intends to really push the mileage
envelope needs to do so over a period of years.

Doug said:

devil's food said:

so I guess the question is,karen,what are you training for?
Leadeville?

It's Leadville 😉 and no she is currently maxed at marathons although I
do wonder how many miles she would do if she did want to try a 50 mile
race much less a 100 at elevation.

Since Karen probably won't answer that, I will take a stab at it. (And
why not? As more-than-ably as she expresses her own thoughts, putting
words in Karen's mouth seems like a rr tradition by now... and I can
only hope she's bemused by it all. Karen, feel free to return the
favor any time; I'll even sit on your lap and move my lips in sync to
whatever you say.)

Probably about the same number of miles: as many as her body, mind, and
schedule will allow.

Which AFAICT isn't a terribly suboptimal strategy for racing any
distance from at least 5000m on up.

I'm gonna hafta pull a lance here and opine that you trail ultra guys
who consider 25 miles, a few hills, a few beers, and a pocketfull of
salt, on three days a week reasonable training for your thousand
milers, are out to lunch. Well, "reasonable" in the sense of
"maximizing one's potential", not "making it to both the start and
finish lines, and not interfering terribly with the rest of one's life."

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

Day Mi Type
-----------------------------------------------
Mon 0.00 rest
Tue 2.47 rec
Wed 0.00 rest
Thu 0.00 rest
Fri 0.00 rest
Sat 1.31 walk
Sun 1.31 walk
-----------------------------------------------
Week 4.78
Year 1,000

I haven't done any real running since May 7th (3 weeks ago). I started
taking a 6-day dosage of prednisone on Monday. I'm not sure if the side
effects are worth the benefits. The tendonitis is very slow to heal. I
went running on Tuesday, which probably was not a good idea. I probably
caused more damage. On Saturday I went for a brisk (15:00 min/mi) walk.
There was some tightness in the anterior tib tendon and moderate pain.
My plan now is to simply walk until there is no discomfort. If I can
walk 3 days consecutively without pain, then I'll ease into running
again.

--
Phil M.

"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a
year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its
place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever." - Lance Armstrong

I'm getting the hang of this: 0

30+°C glorious sunshine but my ankle still hurts, lower achilles too, all
still in splints.

Quoted message said:

I'm gonna hafta pull a lance here and opine that you trail ultra guys
who consider 25 miles, a few hills, a few beers, and a pocketfull of
salt, on three days a week reasonable training for your thousand
milers, are out to lunch.

Charlie, you *know* there's no one here that fits that description -
not even close.😉 All the r.r runners who run ultras run more than that.
And a "few" hills may be all that's needed when they have some size to
them = are larger than Central Park "hills".😉 However, I am aware of
one runner (not r.r) that claims to train on about 20-25 mpw, hills are
the embankments to overpasses, does lots of cross-training, etc. But I
think the longest race he's done is 100 mi. But he does a fair amount of
races with some larger hills at altitude.

I do know of at least one person in Alaska that claims (media interview)
to train about 3xx miles / year and is one of our better mountain
runners (longest race about 24 mi, but most in the 5k range). But he
does 300,000 ft up in that distance. (yes, 1000 ft/mi is consistent with
topography in places with real hills) Mileage can be a really poor
metric for training, depending on your objective.

Quoted message said:

Well, "reasonable" in the sense of
"maximizing one's potential", not "making it to both the start and
finish lines, and not interfering terribly with the rest of one's life."

But perhaps "maximizing one's potential" in life *is* to optimize
training to make "it to both the start and finish lines, and not
interfering terribly with the rest of one's life."

Or did you have another idea of "maximizing one's potential"?😉

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

M: off
T: off
W: 6
Th: 9.5 6 am 3.5 pm
Fr: 7
Sa:10 mile bike ride then 4.5 mile run
Su: 12 miles trails , going out for an easy 10 on the bike in a bit

Total 39 - lowest in a while
It was a weird week not knowing whether I was going to do the Marathon,
oddly enough I feel more beat up this week on less mileage?

Goals: big ?
2 5ks this month
1 mile on the track in July
Take some swimming lessons, maybe do a tri?

--
live! vicariously!
"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

cheers,
--
David Hirsh, director
www.urbanburn.com - half marathon, full throttle!
www.hcatrailseries.com - Get off the road this season!
www.absolutelyaccurate.com - Hamilton's summer series!

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

Run hr% Bike
05/22 off
05/23 0:51 69% 0:26
05/24 1:04 73% 0:26
05/25 1:27 78% 0:41 1,540' climb
(with 0:42 @ 83% hard 1180'^ 850'v)
05/26 0:43 70% 0:25
05/27 1:05 74% 0:25
05/28 2:29 77% 0:41 2,540' climb
(with 1:28 @ 79% 2200'^ 1900'v)
Tot: 7:39 3:04

All on trails, Thurs and Sun on harder and hilly singletrack. Feeling pretty
good, but my feet are sore, probably from upping my volume 3 weeks ago.
Thursday 20 mins in, the front edge of the ball of my left foot started
hurting with a sharp pain like a cramp. Since that was going to be my
midweek 'effort' day that got me angry. After walking a couple of minutes
with it still hurting, I decided to try to run through it, and when I hit
the harder trail section I started going harder than normal, still angry -
not the most intelligent thing to do. I realized I'd had this kind of pain
before, and I wrote it off to a cramp or a signal from some other part of my
body (reflexology hocus pocus). After I ran hard for 40 mins it felt
somewhat better, and by Sunday it was just a slight physical memory -- but
my feet are sore all over; will ice them today and this week.

Goals: Escarpment trail run late July, Vermont 50 mile? Continue at this
volume level if I can, maybe going up to 8+hrs/wk avg, big hill session next
week, more stretching, more weight to lose.

So far 103 hours running this year vs. 53 at this time last year.

-Tony

2006 Summary
hrs hrs long
wk bike run run runs
01 3:33 0:50 0:25 2
02 1:39 2:18 1:05 3
03 3:17 3:01 1:15 4
04 1:37 3:05 1:32 3
05 1:14 4:24 1:55 5
06 0:20 4:36 2:07 4
07 1:08 3:24 1:14 5
08 0:26 5:15 2:28 4
09 1:49 1:33 1:01 2
10 3:17 3:43 1:21 5
11 1:56 6:10 2:49 6
12 2:20 4:16 1:21 5
13 2:52 6:03 2:15 6
14 1:47 6:32 2:43 6
15 3:12 6:21 2:09 6
16 1:57 6:09 2:35 5
17 1:58 9:04 4:28 6
18 3:41 3:59 1:21 5
19 1:44 7:42 2:39 6
20 1:59 7:32 2:38 6
21 3:04 7:39 2:29 6

Doug Freese said:

It's Leadville 😉 and no she is currently maxed at marathons although I
do wonder how many miles she would do if she did want to try a 50 mile
race much less a 100 at elevation.

I have no intention of ever doing such a thing.

Karen

--
live! vicariously!

Dot said:

Charlie, you *know* there's no one here that fits that
description - not even close.

I'm taking a little poetic license. If I gotta miss my Sunday long
run, I reserve the right to stray from strict literal rationality a bit
and maybe wander toward good-natured provocation.

Quoted message said:

However, I am aware of one runner (not r.r) that claims to
train on about 20-25 mpw

Right, and from the little I've read here and there, low mileage ultra
training ain't exactly rare.

Which is fine: as runners, as a newsgroup, as a whatever, we've got a
big enough tent to accommodate people of all ages and paces and levels
of drive and variety of goals etc. More power, sez I, to someone who
runs as much or little as she feels, and who does or doesn't enter 5k
or 100 mile races weekly (or in Parker's case, hourly ;-), monthly, or
annually.

It's just that I'll also chuckle at any suggestion or implication that
people running more than 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 miles per week are
necessarily laboring under some misconception or unseemly compulsion,
and they'd be better served with fewer miles.

Or that, pick a number well under 100, let's say 50, mpw will pretty
much max out performance at marathon distance or longer, for an
otherwise healthy adult not more than a couple decades removed from the
prime of life. Or that, if X miles is optimal to run your best
marathon, you must need much more for a longer ultra or much less for a
10k.

Of course for all this, if exceeding a certain mileage causes an
individual overuse injuries or overtraining symptoms, that's obviously
a ceiling which defines the maximum possible mileage to consider
optimal. For now - because if this is a young and/or relatively
inexperienced runner, that ceiling will probably move up with time.

Quoted message said:

But perhaps "maximizing one's potential" in life *is* to optimize
training to make "it to both the start and finish lines, and not
interfering terribly with the rest of one's life."

Well sure. I meant the conjunction "not" to indicate that in fact I
did mean something different by "maximizing one's potential." ;-) In
this case: the best race performance of which one is capable.

And again: I don't insist that anyone make this his goal to the
exclusion of all else, or imply some moral superiority of someone who
does vs. the person with more interests or demands or a different
balance. I certainly agree with your Heinrich quote:

Quoted message said:

"Success is different things to different people"

And success to me, today, is going to have a lot more to do with
getting my rib steaks and pork chops and wild boar sausage perfectly
grilled, than keeping a decent pace for a fifteen miler. :-)

"joe positive" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Freese said:

It's Leadville 😉 and no she is currently maxed at marathons although
I
do wonder how many miles she would do if she did want to try a 50
mile
race much less a 100 at elevation.

I have no intention of ever doing such a thing.

Only time will tell.......... 😉

-DF