Training Week Ending March 26, 2006

mon: 7 easy
tues: 9 - 8 X 800, wu, cd
wed: 6.25 easy
thur: 8 with 4 @ MP (ran too fast as I took a wrong turn and I thought I
was running slower)
fri: 5.25 easy , started to experience some pain in the front of my
knee
sat: off - feel like I have some kind of bug, tired stomach isn't quuite
right.
su: 18.5 -19 trails - Felt ok, I skipped the 1/2 due to feeling crappy
and not wanting to aggravate my knee.
I had actually forgotten about the knee and then it started to hurt again
after 20 minutes.
After 45 or so it was a little worse and I thought I was done for the day.
It improved in the next mile and half or so on the way back to my car. I
went back out and the pain was gone for the next 2 hours. I'm not sure what
that means!!??

total : 54

Upcoming
5 miler - 4/2 - goal pace 6:50 or less
4 miler 4/14
10k - 4/22
Vermont City Marathon - 5/28 hope to average 7:40 - 7:45 per mile

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

cheers,
--
David Hirsh, director
www.urbanburn.com - half marathon, full throttle!
www.hcatrailseries.com - Get off the road this season!
www.absolutelyaccurate.com - Hamilton's summer series!

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

goals: get rested, then get running. See what marathon training may or may
not have done for my short-race times. Then start marathon training again.
upcoming: 5-miler April 8; 10K April 15; 10K April 30 (triathlon relay);
marathon Sept 30 or Nov 11.

M: off
T: 2mi (9:20), still a bit sore :-|
W: 4mi (9:06)
R: 5.25mi (9:15)
F: 5.23mi (8:43), starting to feel good again :-)
Sa: 5mi (8:39)
Su: 10.72mi (8:15) \o/

total: 32.2 puny little miles

pretty boring week, this. Highlight was today when I met a friend for a
little over 10 miles in beautiful, sunny, 48-degree weather. Perfect.

good week all

Karen

--
live! vicariously!

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

Day Mi Type
----------------------------------------------------------------
Mon 11.18 LT, 5 up 4 @ LT
Tue 6.37 easy (weights)
Wed 13.03 medium long
Thu 8.11 easy
Fri 4.59 easy (abs)
Sat 26.37 long
Sun 0.00 rest (weights, abs)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Week 70
Year 731

Training:
Week 17 of 20-week training plan. This was the last high mileage/long
run week before the 50-miler. Saturday's long run should have been on
trails, but I ran it on the roads. Mostly on rolling hills through
farmland. I did a lot of jumping off the road and on to the grassy
shoulder to dodge the cars. Does everyone in rural America own a Trans
Am? Much of the route was on the Athens to Atlanta Road Skate course
(http://www.a2a.net). It was very windy the entire way (17 mph), Since I
was running point-to-point, I was constantly running into the wind.

Events:
4/15/06 McNaughton Park Trail Runs, Pekin IL
http://tinyurl.com/avp9c

Have a great week rec.runners.

--
Phil M.

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

Mon: DNR
Tue: 4.5 road miles
Wed: DNR
Thu: DNR
Fri: DNR
Sat: DNR
Sun: DNR
-----------------------------------------------------------
Week total: 4.5 miles (7K)
Year total: 162 (261K)

Currently 117 miles (189K) (as of this minute) BEHIND on my 2006 goal of
running 1200 miles (1931K).

Training:
Left forefoot continues to be sore. With a 6 week break without any
races, I've decided rest and let the left forefoot heal.

When I tried Asics Cumulus just before my last 50K road race, I had a
similar pain in my right forefoot . After resting for 5 days and
switching back to my usual Asics Nimbus for the race the pain in my
right forefoot disappeared to be replaced by a similar pain in my left
forefoot. Since then I've been running less than 10 miles a week and
each time I run the left forefoot is a little more sore after the run
than before. I'd thought that the soreness was lessening run to run,
but now even with 5 days of no running, it is getting worse!

My best diagnosis is a metatarsal stress fracture. The healing times
I've found for this range from 4 - 6 weeks to 8 - 12 weeks.

I'll be limiting my foot strikes as must as possible and training with a
bicycle or other non-impact methods.

Racing past:
4 weeks back: road 50K (distance PR!)

Racing future (2 months):
No races planned for the next 6 weeks.

In 6 weeks, I have a streak of 10 races in 7 weeks. (All of these are
shot races.) Two weeks after the last race, I'll be running in the
world's largest 10K (55,000 "runners"😉.

Misc goals:
Catch up on my race reports.

Piedmont Donald

Parker said:

I had actually forgotten about the knee and then it started to hurt again
after 20 minutes.
After 45 or so it was a little worse and I thought I was done for the day.
It improved in the next mile and half or so on the way back to my car. I
went back out and the pain was gone for the next 2 hours. I'm not sure
what that means!!??

Gee, I sure can't help ya. But good luck with that, and the stomach. Sorry
you had to bail on the race but surely you did the right thing.

I've had a few minutes of minor knee discomfort, on a few runs this week,
but so far it's barely been enough to notice and not lasted long at all.
I'm gonna assume mine is most likely a tight ITB and keep diligent with my
rolling and massaging and stretching, and approach paved downhills with
caution.

Quoted message said:

Sat 26.37 long
It was very windy the entire way (17 mph), Since I was running
point-to-point, I was constantly running into the wind.

Gee, next time you want a training run exactly like this, why don't you hook
up with Karen for a marathon?

Quoted message said:

Does everyone in rural America own a Trans Am?

People still drive those? Just, wow!

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

mon: off
tues: ran 0:38 easy
mtn biked 0:27
wed: ran 0:37 easy
mtn biked 0:26
thur: ran 0:58 easy/mod
fri: off (unplanned rest)
sat: ran 0:42 easy
mtn biked 0:24, 520' combined climb
sun: ran 1:22 easy/mod 1280' climb
mtn biked 1:03, 600' climb

The legs were tired this week after last Sunday's hill training run. More of
the same next week, long run 2:30ish planned.

-Tony

Piedmont Donald said:

Left forefoot continues to be sore. [...]

I'd thought that the soreness was lessening run to run,
but now even with 5 days of no running, it is getting worse!

My best diagnosis is a metatarsal stress fracture. The healing times
I've found for this range from 4 - 6 weeks to 8 - 12 weeks.

PD, I'm sorry to hear about your continuing foot woes.

Since it has gone on this long, and since it's bad enough to prevent you
from running, and since you've such an ambitious racing schedule starting in
another month and a half - why are you going with _YOUR_ best diagnosis, why
not a podiatrist's?

Or are you in fact a podiatrist - hence the "Pied" in "Piedmont"?

64.80 starting-slow-but-picking-up-steam miles (a double JoePos!), as

Mo: AM: 4.15 recovery
PM: massage

Tu: AM: 4.55 recovery + strides
PM: 4.65 slightly quicker recovery

We: AM: 4.55 easy-moderate

Th: AM: 7.00 10 x 40-45 sec (~200m) hilly reps in Ft Greene Park, on dirt
and grass. Half of rep on 1% grade, then about 5%. Felt like I
slowed down a lot for a stride or two switching gears from flat
to up and then from up to flat. Took a while to find the right
effort level - first one too easy, next 4 too hard, slowing and
poor form; in the end I had to take the flat first half a bit
easier then push harder albeit slower up the hill. Probably best
to do future reps at the track, maybe do some interval effort
(slightly slower) hills on Brooklyn Bridge or Prospect Park which
have ~4' hills with mostly soft surfaces for the jog down.
PM: 4.55 recovery

Fr: AM: 8.95 3 x (2'/1'/1'/30"/30"/1' fast/slow) unstructured inteverals.
PM: 3.55 recovery

Sa: AM: 7.75 easy
PM: Altman's "Nashville" on the big screen, then dinner at a favorite
neighborhood Senegalese place finally reopened after a lengthy
(and yowza! worth the wait!) remodel

Su: AM: 15.10 long with tempo (1.575 @ 9:28, 2.45 @ 9:11, 3.60 @ 8:51,
2.85 @ 8:17, 3.35 @ 7:10, 1.275 @ 8:22)

upcoming
--------
- 2 Apr 10 km (med priority, goal 40-low)
- 23 Apr 4 M (low priority)
- 7 May 10 M (med priority, Philadelphia Broad Street Run)
- highest priority races = Utica Boilermaker 9 Jul; NYCM 5 Nov

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training
week and goals.

goals:
Apr 9 - Clyde's 10K
May 7 - Bay Bridge 10K
July 8 - Grandfather Mountain Marathon

Mon/Wed - bike to work, 3hr20 total
Tue - run, 8 mi, hills, medium->hard progression (~50 min)
Thu - run, 7.7 mi, easy/medium (51:xx)
Fri - wiped out, needed a rest
Sat - run, 13.3 mi, very hard, hills, 1715' climb (1:28:xx)
Sun - Concept 2 row, 12k, easy (47:xx)

Decided to go ahead and register/pay for both 10K's this week, so no
backing out now. (the marathon's been paid for for a couple of weeks)

I don't know how Karen can run 7 days a week. I can manage a full week
with no breaks every once in a while, but can't maintain that for long
(nor am I confident that I'm actually advancing my fitness by doing
do). This week was a good example -- legs felt heavier every day this
week until I rested on Friday.

Sat's hill run was absolutely brutal. Every so often I find myself
suffering so badly on a run that I wonder why I'm doing this to myself.
There's a strange psychology at work. I'd like to repeat this hills
course semi-regularly as raceday gets closer (probably every
non-long-run weekend that I'm not racing). I think (hope) it will get
easier as I build up some more specific hill strength. Then I'll think
about tackling the monster 1200 ft climb an hour's drive west.

The Apr 9 race is probably our best local race of the year. I think I
have a chance to do pretty well -- PR on this course is 35:27 from 2
years ago, and I think I can get close. One session of intervals
mid-week (800's or miles), then long run this coming weekend, then
mini-taper next week, and I should be good to go.

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Parker said:

I had actually forgotten about the knee and then it started to hurt again
after 20 minutes.
After 45 or so it was a little worse and I thought I was done for the
day. It improved in the next mile and half or so on the way back to my
car. I went back out and the pain was gone for the next 2 hours. I'm not
sure what that means!!??

Gee, I sure can't help ya. But good luck with that, and the stomach.
Sorry you had to bail on the race but surely you did the right thing.

The bug seems better I just hope the knee isn't a recurring thing now that
my training seems to showing signs of paying off.

Quoted message said:

I've had a few minutes of minor knee discomfort, on a few runs this week,
but so far it's barely been enough to notice and not lasted long at all.
I'm gonna assume mine is most likely a tight ITB and keep diligent with my
rolling and massaging and stretching, and approach paved downhills with
caution.

Yeah, I have to do some preventive maintanence myself. I've had a low level
achilles problem in the same leg for over a year. There's probably a
relationship. When this hurt it was definitely worse going downhill even on
dirt and sand.

Charlie Pendejo said:

Quoted message said:

Sat 26.37 long
It was very windy the entire way (17 mph), Since I was running
point-to-point, I was constantly running into the wind.

Gee, next time you want a training run exactly like this, why don't
you hook up with Karen for a marathon?

The next time I do a long point-to-point run, I'll be sure to check the
wind direction. I passed a few cyclists heading the other way. I think
they're more in tune with the wind conditions. Fortunately I packed a
vest and a long-sleeve T.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does everyone in rural America own a Trans Am?

People still drive those? Just, wow!

Yes, there are people that still drive those and they all live in Winder
Georgia.

--
Phil M.

Charlie Pendejo said:

64.80 starting-slow-but-picking-up-steam miles (a double JoePos!)

I'm sure that next week will be a 1/2 JoePos as she gets back on her normal
schedule. ;-)

--
Phil M.

Tom B. said:

I don't know how Karen can run 7 days a week. I can manage a full
week with no breaks every once in a while, but can't maintain that
for long (nor am I confident that I'm actually advancing my fitness
by doing do). This week was a good example -- legs felt heavier
every day this week until I rested on Friday.

I'm sure you could as running is one of those activities where the more you
do, the easier it is to do more. Whether you'd do any better though is
another matter. Your results on your present regime aren't too shabby so
I'd stick with what works. ;-)

Tim

Phil said:

Pendejo said:

(a double JoePos!)

I'm sure that next week will be a 1/2 JoePos as she gets back on her
normal schedule. ;-)

'Zackly. I figure there's _at most_ two weeks in any year I've got a shot
at a JoeDub. :-)

Kinda thought I might have a shot at a Full Phil this week too, but no, you
gotta go run a marathon length training run.

Pendejo, eager to read some HAT stories, 10k stories, Rome marathon
stories...

"Tom B." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

...
I don't know how Karen can run 7 days a week. I can manage a full week
with no breaks every once in a while, but can't maintain that for long
(nor am I confident that I'm actually advancing my fitness by doing
do). This week was a good example -- legs felt heavier every day this
week until I rested on Friday.

Ditto re Karen and others who run high mileage. I'm gambling this year that
pushing through more frequent running will eventually pay benefits. It seems
my body is better able to handle it after 2 years of cross-training. But,
like you, I my legs seem heavier as I run more frequently. I'm hoping this
is just the sustained training load that Donovan and others talk about, and
I hope that I'll adapt to it.

I can think of 3 main different kinds of training stress: muscle fatigue,
general system fatigue, and skeletal (joint/tendon/ligament/etc) fatigue.
The muscles generally seem to adapt first, and the skeletal part takes much
longer. But the muscles can bear up to higher training loads only subject to
a strong healthy general system. In other words, general system fatigue can
hold back recovery of the whole body, including the muscles. Anyway, I've
very often wondered the same thing as you: is more training advancing my
fitness or is it just digging a hole?

This year I'm just trying to even out my training experience more because in
the past I would do long runs and everything would revolve around that, and
they would produce high's and low's in my training weeks and general health.
It's a balancing act for each of us.

Quoted message said:

Sat's hill run was absolutely brutal. Every so often I find myself
suffering so badly on a run that I wonder why I'm doing this to myself.
There's a strange psychology at work. I'd like to repeat this hills
course semi-regularly as raceday gets closer (probably every
non-long-run weekend that I'm not racing). I think (hope) it will get
easier as I build up some more specific hill strength. Then I'll think
about tackling the monster 1200 ft climb an hour's drive west.

I felt the same way today - no gas at all, and I cut my med-long that was
going to be 1:45-1:50 down to a 1:20 run for that reason. Some days you just
feel like you're beating a dead horse. OTOH, last week I felt strong and
kept going too long, setting up a week where training felt like more like
work in the unseasonable cold than it should have.

-Tony

Charlie Pendejo said:

Piedmont Donald wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd thought that the soreness was lessening run to run,
but now even with 5 days of no running, it is getting worse!

My best diagnosis is a metatarsal stress fracture. The healing
times I've found for this range from 4 - 6 weeks to 8 - 12 weeks.

PD, I'm sorry to hear about your continuing foot woes.

I'm mainly sorry it wasn't bad enough initially. Instead it was only a
little sore and I'm afraid I've now made it worse and lost time for
treatment.

Quoted message said:

Since it has gone on this long, and since it's bad enough to prevent
you from running, and since you've such an ambitious racing schedule
starting in another month and a half - why are you going with _YOUR_
best diagnosis, why not a podiatrist's?

I've checked on the subject and a large percentage of stress fractures
can't be seen in an x-ray until partially healed.
Also:
1) No signs of a complete fracture
2) The position is consistent with a metatarsal stress fracture
3) The first-time road 50K just prior to the injury matches nicely with
a stress fracture
4) A couple of things point away from Morton's neuroma
5) A rest will not hurt it
6) I have the time before my next race

Quoted message said:

Or are you in fact a podiatrist - hence the "Pied" in "Piedmont"?

Nope. Not a medical type. "Piedmont" is a geographical description.

Piedmont Donald

Tony said:

Tom said:

I don't know how Karen can run 7 days a week. I can manage a full week
with no breaks every once in a while, but can't maintain that for long

Ditto re Karen and others who run high mileage. I'm gambling this year
that pushing through more frequent running will eventually pay benefits.

I think the smart money says it surely will, as long as you keep well clear
of breaking down. What's your strategy for increasing your running
frequency - anything other than toning down the long runs a bit, or do you
figure that's all you need?

Tom: as a thought experiment, how short (4-5 miles?) and how slow (8 minute
miles?) do you imagine you'd have to start out, to consistently log 6 or 7
of these days per week and not break down? OK now imagine you do that for N
weeks, acclimate to the point you no longer bother to wake up before heading
out the door, then start creeping up the mileage of some days and later the
intensity of some days.

OTOH as Tony said, I'd never presume to say you _ought_ to do such-and-such
or that what you're already doing ain't working for you - geez, I only wish
the results of my own training were as "dysfunctional" as yours!

Piedmont Donald' sorry_invalid@too_much_spam.com said:

Quoted message said:

Or are you in fact a podiatrist - hence the "Pied" in "Piedmont"?

Nope. Not a medical type.

And as Mrs Piedmont might say "For a runner to have a foot injury, /ce
n'est pas le pied/" :->