Training camp - sessions

Where does that camp fit in a more global perspective? What I specifically have in mind is that is it supposed to be a training camp prior a taper? What will follow the training camp?

And also, are you going somewhere in particular? The places where I used to send people on training camps were basically well known. Very often it was in Toucson Az. There are a lot of group rides there. One didn't really need a formal plan. And even though I'd work my a.. fairly hard to come up with few nice microcycles, they wouldn't do half of what was planned and would rather go "with the flow" so to speak.

SolarEnergy said:

Where does that camp fit in a more global perspective? What I specifically have in mind is that is it supposed to be a training camp prior a taper? What will follow the training camp?

And also, are you going somewhere in particular? The places where I used to send people on training camps were basically well known. Very often it was in Toucson Az. There are a lot of group rides there. One didn't really need a formal plan. And even though I'd work my a.. fairly hard to come up with few nice microcycles, they wouldn't do half of what was planned and would rather go "with the flow" so to speak.

Well, the camp falls at the beginning of our season but also we have a week afterwards then a 3 day tour so a bit of a taper afterwards.

peterwright said:

Well, the camp falls at the beginning of our season but also we have a week afterwards then a 3 day tour so a bit of a taper afterwards.

What do you mean by "at the begining of our season". You mean at the begining of the new season? Main competitions for 2006 racing season are behind you now?

SolarEnergy said:

What do you mean by "at the begining of our season". You mean at the begining of the new season? Main competitions for 2006 racing season are behind you now?

Our "Spring" season starts now and ends in Dec, our "Summer" season starts in Jan and ends in May.

So we are beginning our Spring season after a winter of trainng (or not)

peterwright said:

Our "Spring" season starts now and ends in Dec, our "Summer" season starts in Jan and ends in May.

So we are beginning our Spring season after a winter of trainng (or not)

OMG! I was on the impression that you were living somewhere in USA.

Now I understand how september can be the start of a "Spring season".

Then if I understand well. If your main competitions occur in the Summer season, then I would simply pack your training camp with as much L2-3 (and a bit of L4) possible. A lot of sweet spot. Then you'll be able to ride every day, enjoying your camp a lot.

How about a TT pacing practice ride? Here's how it works. Everybody is limited to the same NP/kg ratio for the course (the lowest common denominator of the riders). If you exceed your allowed NP, you are DQed. Fastest time wins within the allowed NP/kg ratio. It helps if the course has a bunch of grade and wind changes.😄

SolarEnergy said:

OMG! I was on the impression that you were living somewhere in USA.

Now I understand how september can be the start of a "Spring season".

Then if I understand well. If your main competitions occur in the Summer season, then I would simply pack your training camp with as much L2-3 (and a bit of L4) possible. A lot of sweet spot. Then you'll be able to ride every day, enjoying your camp a lot.

We are missing each other 🙂

The 2 seasons are distinctly separate but as important as each other - so main races are in both seasons. So we have some important races starting from a week after our return from camp.

RapDaddyo said:

How about a TT pacing practice ride? Here's how it works. Everybody is limited to the same NP/kg ratio for the course (the lowest common denominator of the riders). If you exceed your allowed NP, you are DQed. Fastest time wins within the allowed NP/kg ratio. It helps if the course has a bunch of grade and wind changes.😄

Cool idea 😄

peterwright said:

Cool idea 😄

I would win.😄

RapDaddyo said:

I would win.😄

Come and try your luck - nice riding country 😉

peterwright said:

Come and try your luck - nice riding country 😉

I've been there, way back. It is nice country, but I saw it from the air. I made 3 trips to Johannesburg in the 1960s in single engine private airplanes and went down to Cape Town on one trip for a little R&R. I thought I was in another country. What a beautiful place. I'll come down there when I'm setting up distribution of something I'm working on, and I'll ride with you.😄

RapDaddyo said:

I've been there, way back. It is nice country, but I saw it from the air. I made 3 trips to Johannesburg in the 1960s in single engine private airplanes and went down to Cape Town on one trip for a little R&R. I thought I was in another country. What a beautiful place. I'll come down there when I'm setting up distribution of something I'm working on, and I'll ride with you.😄

Thats a plan - maybe we can help with distribution.

peterwright said:

Thats a plan - maybe we can help with distribution.

Cool.😎 Pleasure and business on the same trip.😄

peterwright said:

We are missing each other 🙂

The 2 seasons are distinctly separate but as important as each other - so main races are in both seasons. So we have some important races starting from a week after our return from camp.

Ah thanks !

I find it hard to issue any suggestion without having a better picture of the courses and rider's needs and upcoming races and such. I do know that you have a 3 day stage race in the weeks following the camp.

I usually spend a significant amount of time planning training camps. But my primary focus isn't at the session level, but more at the mesocycle composition level. I have always found that the two 'extremes' in planning (training camps because of the very high volume of work and tapers because of the very low volume of work) needed to be well thought. In training camps, you want to avoid injuries or to avoid gambling with ATL too much.

So I'd stick with my original suggestion about doing a lot of sweet spot training during this camp. As for the content of the sessions per se, I guess that primarly depends on the courses you will ride.

SolarEnergy said:

Ah thanks !

I find it hard to issue any suggestion without having a better picture of the courses and rider's needs and upcoming races and such. I do know that you have a 3 day stage race in the weeks following the camp.

I usually spend a significant amount of time planning training camps. But my primary focus isn't at the session level, but more at the mesocycle composition level. I have always found that the two 'extremes' in planning (training camps because of the very high volume of work and tapers because of the very low volume of work) needed to be well thought. In training camps, you want to avoid injuries or to avoid gambling with ATL too much.

So I'd stick with my original suggestion about doing a lot of sweet spot training during this camp. As for the content of the sessions per se, I guess that primarly depends on the courses you will ride.

Thanks - I reckon we will do a fair bit of this but will add some L4 work on all climbs and also some "guttering" practice and a bit of motor pacing at L3 & 4 plus a few sprints - what do you think ?

peterwright said:

Thanks - I reckon we will do a fair bit of this but will add some L4 work on all climbs and also some "guttering" practice and a bit of motor pacing at L3 & 4 plus a few sprints - what do you think ?

One of the things I think training camps can and should do is to help the cyclist establish his current performance at key points on the power/duration curve (e.g., FTP, VO2MAX, AWC, NM) and help him understand how to measure performance changes over time. What do you plan to do in that regard? For example, at the outset of the training camp, do you plan to have them ride performance test rides? What durations?

peterwright said:

Thanks - I reckon we will do a fair bit of this but will add some L4 work on all climbs and also some "guttering" practice and a bit of motor pacing at L3 & 4 plus a few sprints - what do you think ?

That sounds good !

But I did plan a camp for one guy recently. He had a 3week long training camp, prior a two week long taper, prior Mnt Washington uphill race (pure L4 event ~1Hr long).

What I did is keeping the same training framework that he had used throughout the season. I replaced the days off by more work. I melted the usual L5 work into longer workouts (instead of a taxing dedicated L5 only workout).

L4 volume was increased a little bit, as I kept intact the usual dedicated L4 workouts (2 per week), plus I added some L4 into longer workouts as well. The rest of it was mainly L3/lowerL4 (sweet spot), with some L2 (coupled with some sprints).

Decisions were based on the facts that we were preparing for a L4 event (as opposed to a stage race), and that I knew this rider had a very high CTL, thus capable of supporting mutiple blocks day after day. Also the fact that this race was (supposedly) the last one of the season (as opposed to the begining of a new season).

SolarEnergy said:

That sounds good !

But I did plan a camp for one guy recently. He had a 3week long training camp, prior a two week long taper, prior Mnt Washington uphill race (pure L4 event ~1Hr long).

What I did is keeping the same training framework that he had used throughout the season. I replaced the days off by more work. I melted the usual L5 work into longer workouts (instead of a taxing dedicated L5 only workout).

L4 volume was increased a little bit, as I kept intact the usual dedicated L4 workouts (2 per week), plus I added some L4 into longer workouts as well. The rest of it was mainly L3/lowerL4 (sweet spot), with some L2 (coupled with some sprints).

Decisions were based on the facts that we were preparing for a L4 event (as opposed to a stage race), and that I knew this rider had a very high CTL, thus capable of supporting mutiple blocks day after day. Also the fact that this race was (supposedly) the last one of the season (as opposed to the begining of a new season).

There is a bit of variance in terms of strengths / weaknesses of the riders coming, however I reckon that the main goal for all the riders is to take the opportunity to get 5 days of decent training in as a way of giving our CTL a bit of a boost - a sort of turbo boost to the next level.

peterwright said:

There is a bit of variance in terms of strengths / weaknesses of the riders coming, however I reckon that the main goal for all the riders is to take the opportunity to get 5 days of decent training in as a way of giving our CTL a bit of a boost - a sort of turbo boost to the next level.

Yes I agree.

An other approach, if you need more quality work to be done, would be to book it early in the camp. Rest few days before the camp, start it with 2 or 3 very hard days back to back, then recover for a day (easy L2... I know it's too bad loosing a camp day doing L2), then spend the last day or two doing mainly sweet spot. And there you have it.

That would probably give a boost to CTL, but I assume that ATL would also be fairly high as well though.