Training beginner...many questions

My only suggestion regarding your workout routine would be to gradually increase the duration of your cycling periods. Competitive and club cycling events are typically 2+ hours in duration, so your body's really not getting much of a feel for it at 15-30mins at a time. Those longer, moderate intensity rides give your knees, hips and lower back a good chance to strengthen gradually so that they can eventually withstand the stress of the high-power interval workouts that you'll need if you start competitive training. If you routine prohibits riding for longer durations on a daily basis, then you can acclimate your body by doing 1 or 2 longer rides a week (on weekends, maybe?), and gradually (over several weeks/months) building up to where you are comfortable for 2-3 hours at a time on the bike. Those longer rides may be more suitable to your mountain bike rather than the stationary gym bike, since the gym bikes can get kinda boring.

Regarding the Trek 2100, I think that's a pretty good choice, myself. I'm sure the other brands also have good offerings in that price range, too, but I chose to stay with Trek when I got my race bike.

Can't really advise on good women's clothing, so I'll leave that to others. Good luck. 🙂

One of the reasons that I've started so light is because I'm afraid to jump in too far too fast and cause further injury to my knees. I'm hoping that if I gradually over the course of the next 6-8 months increase my time on the bike, along with some light strength training to help the muscles along that I will be ok.

Because it's starting to get a bit chilly up here in CT and I honestly don't have the apparel right now to ride much outdoors with the temperatures, I'm starting to get restricted with my mountain bike usage. Thus, why I'm spending 2 hours/day at the gym. On the stationary bike then, should I be concentrating on shorter rides of "hill"/difficult settings or longer rides of an easier level with a faster cadence? I am not sure which will give me more endurance in my legs in the long run for long distance cycling.

Thanks for the help!

peanutzip said:

One of the reasons that I've started so light is because I'm afraid to jump in too far too fast and cause further injury to my knees. I'm hoping that if I gradually over the course of the next 6-8 months increase my time on the bike, along with some light strength training to help the muscles along that I will be ok.

That's definitely a good approach. Take it slow coming back from your injury, and take care that your muscles don't develop faster then your connective tissues.

peanutzip said:

Because it's starting to get a bit chilly up here in CT and I honestly don't have the apparel right now to ride much outdoors with the temperatures, I'm starting to get restricted with my mountain bike usage. Thus, why I'm spending 2 hours/day at the gym. On the stationary bike then, should I be concentrating on shorter rides of "hill"/difficult settings or longer rides of an easier level with a faster cadence? I am not sure which will give me more endurance in my legs in the long run for long distance cycling.

Personally I'd say the latter, because I think the longer rides will help develop your joints and core muscles better with less risk of strain or injury. Maybe one of the physiologists on this forum will chime in on that. I don't think 15-30 minutes a day will do very much for your cycling ability. Cycling is pretty much a slow-twitch sport. There's no reason you shouldn't do a mix of the two, though, if it doesn't cause you any discomfort and time allows.

You seem like you are on the right track. Just go slow and listen to your body. I would work towards extending your exercise bike rides to about an hour and keep the pace so that you know you can finish the time. Just work on adding 5-10 mins each week. So as the season gets closer, you should be about an hour on the exercise bike and an hour strengh training. Once you can make an hour consistantly, then start doing the hill programs or different interval setiings on the exercise bike.

As far as equipment, the more expensive shorts, gloves, jerseys are nice if you do alot of long distance riding, but I would start out getting the mid level performance brand clothing (http://www.performancebike.com/) then each year replace one article with a more expensive piece of clothing like castelli, assos, or pearl izumi brands. Most women I know prefer a standard short (dont get the bib (shorts with suspenders) shorts) but as I am not a woman, I cannot personaly vouch for that. The bike you are looking at seems fine, it will be plenty fast and not hold you back for a long time (don't get caught up in the equipment hype, Lance could kick my ass on a tricycle 🙂 , but dont cheap out either.) If you train hard and smart you will be fast, when you think that your bike is holding you back, spend the money instead on a cycling training book and follow it.

peanutzip said:

...... my knees couldn't take it anymore. After having surgery on one and spending almost 8 years out of much other .....

peanutzip said:

...... Gym: Sunday-Thursday
15-30 minutes stationary bike...

peanutzip said:

......Alternating days between upper and lower body strength training...

Everybody is different, of course. But if you don't mind, I'll take myself as an example, as I also have knee chronical injuries (as a result of my "busy" childhood).

I do weight. A small amount, but I find that in the long run, it helps to maintain a good general condition. But as soon as my knee starts to hurt, I must cut on exercices that increase the pain. When I do too many different leg exercices, it is more difficult to pinpoint the bad one.

BTW, a common mistake is to cut them all in the same time, wait, and then resume them all in the same time. That way, you can never really get over it.

Over the years, I have found that Cycling remains the safest activity for my knees. The difficulty when you deal with chronical injuries, is that when you do 4 or 5 differents exercices with your legs, it is harder to distinguish the good ones from the bad ones.

But that was just my 2cents🙂

Thanks so much for all the advice so far! I will definitely go along with the increase of about 5-10 minutes/week, should my knees allow. Should I be focusing on even the lowest resistance setting and trying to go for the longer time and then building more resistance/different settings?

I definitely want to keep the lower body strength training that I've been doing because I want to make sure there's enough supportive muscle for my joints, especially around the knee cap. I'm not doing anything heavy duty, although I wonder which I should cut out, especially as I am able to spend longer and longer on the bike. (So far I do: leg press, leg extension, hamstring pullbacks, lunges w/ dumbells, squats with dumbells, leg raises).

I know I won't need the most expensive clothing, etc. just yet but I've at least been looking at the different things out there. It's still a bit of a ways a way, but I usually like to think ahead! [img]cyclingforums.comwink.gifOpen ↗[/img]

peanutzip said:

I definitely want to keep the lower body strength training that I've been doing because I want to make sure there's enough supportive muscle for my joints, especially around the knee cap. I'm not doing anything heavy duty, although I wonder which I should cut out, especially as I am able to spend longer and longer on the bike. (So far I do: leg press, leg extension, hamstring pullbacks, lunges w/ dumbells, squats with dumbells, leg raises).

hmmm, personnally, I don't feel it.

If I was your coach, we would probably have an argument about your lower body wl program. I would try to negociate with you that you only keep one leg exercice per muscle group (1 press, 1 curl, 1 raise, optionnally 1 extention).

In weight lifting, improvement takes place when muscles (muslce cells) recover from micro-injuries. That accounts for your theory about developping enough supportive muscles for your joints. So far, we agree.

But when you perform an endurance/repetitive activity on top of those micro-injuries, before you actually let the muscles recover 100%, the risk of seing these micro-injuries getting bigger are greater and greater.

What I'm trying to say, is that if you are to weight lift, and cycle, you'd better keep a good control over your fatige/compensation curve, or else, you risk inflamation.

To me, that discussion about being carefull in increasing 5 minutes at the time, the cycling volume does not make sense, if in the same time, you perform leg press, squat and lunges the day before.

That was just my opinion. Do as planned, but if it starts to hurt, cut the lower body wl program and resume the exercices one at the time, trying to pinpoint which one(s) are problematic.

I see where you're coming from. Thus far, other than nagging pain in my lower back which sometimes radiates down my body, I have been a little sore every day (especially in my quads and hamstrings), but not so sore that I can't do anything the next day. I have noticed that after I spend time on the stationary bike, then go to leg extensions that I am more fatigued generally. (Ex. I went down from doing 65 lbs. to 50 lbs. so I don't kill my knee) I would like to keep the extensions though because I do think that my knee cap needs a little more muscle support. It is hard to tell how much because I am of small stature and don't have any fat on me.

I have been thinking about losing the leg press, because I notice that I have to stay at 120lbs. in order to feel anything, yet on the "pull back" of my legs, I feel sort of a popping in the outside of both knees (not the patella). Doesn't really hurt at all, just feels weird/unstable. I do understand your point on adding repitition on top of weight training when the muscles haven't healed. (That's where I have my arms/back problems - playing the flute never allows the small muscles to heal) I guess I'm just worried about not having enough of that muscle support, especially for my knees/back. Will cycling alone be able to over time allow for my knees to have that supportive muscle for the increaseed rides?

I do see where you're coming from. What would you recommend I keep for exercises then, so that I am still get some lower body weight training? Also, from reading one of the other threads, is it really a good idea to be doing the weight training before cycling?

If you are going to continue training with weights while riding the exercise bike at the gym, use the least resistance setting on the bike (or one that you can spin comfrotably sometimes the least resistance setting is hard to pedal comfortably it requires too high a cadence). You should not feel any muscle strain during the ride. Your purpose for riding the bike is to increase your areobic endurance not your muscle endurance just yet. When you ride the bike you should feel like you could go at it all day, so keep your heart rate low (175 is too high, try 150-155) and your percived exertion at about what you feel when you walk briskly. When March or so rolls around, taper off in the gym and start going harder on the bike. By this time you should have no problem making an hour or more on the bike. When you get your new bike and are able to ride outside, I would do the gym one day a week as maintenace if you feel you still need it and ride my bike for my workouts.

GIFF07 said:

When you ride the bike you should feel like you could go at it all day, so keep your heart rate low (175 is too high, try 150-155) and your percived exertion at about what you feel when you walk briskly.

If you don't have "all-day" to ride the bike then I don't really see a reason to ride at all-day pace. There's no reason the OP couldn't mix moderate to higher intensities into the ride routine if ride time is limited. Her current 15-30 minutes of brisk walk effort riding isn't going to do much for a fairly fit person at all.

She should be conscious of muscle fatigue from the weight routine however, as others have mentioned, and then scale back the weights or drop them completely in favor of biking workouts when weather and knee strength allow.

This is just my experience but, I was doing something similar to you last year. I used to go to the gym 4/5 days per week, my plan usually was to do 1/2 hr on the bike (interval setting) on Monday, 45 min Tuesday, 1hr Wed, 1/2 hr Thrs., followed by some light weight training and capped off with 1/2 easy walking on the treadmill for cooldown. I was usually out cycling on Saturday and Sunday with my husband.

In April I got a new bike and decided to give up the gym to ride the bike exclusively. I found that my performance on the bike improved dramatically when I rode the bike more instead of going to the gym. I couldn't explain why, but it does seem like an exercise bike is good for aerboic capacity, but doesn't do the job for the rest. Interestingly enough I lost weight more quickly using only the bike as well.

That said I do think that some light leg weight work was very helpful to me. I used to have some problems with my knees, especially on hills which cleared up after strengthening the muscles a bit. I didn't like the set up of the leg press machine so I never did leg presses, but from what I understand they have no effect on the muscles that stablize your knees so I don't think it was a bad thing. I've heard (and think it is absolutely true cause it worked for me) that the best knee exercise to do is leg curls (the one where you lie on your stomach and bend your knees back toward your butt). I did those a lot with pretty light weights and I haven't had any knee pain since.

Bike - I can't comment on a Trek as I haven't tried one, but I do have a WSD bike. I'm small too (5'0", 103lbs) and I find that the shortened top tube, the smaller levers and less width on the handlebars to all add up to a much better fit for me. The biggest thing is to not fixate on a brand (or even WSD for that matter) and make sure you get something that is comfortable and fits properly. It'll be doubly important for you to be sure you get a good fit if you are already having neck/shoulder problems. A bike that is too cramped or too stretched out can make it worse.

Your last question - clothing, we're probably pretty close to the same size. Even though I do have to search around sometimes, I don't have a lot of trouble finding stuff - in fact sometimes I get really good deals because of my small size. I can't say I have a lot of brand loyalty, but I do like Canari jersey's. I'm pretty unendowed and they fit the best for me since I don't like a loose jersey. My other stuff is petty mixed up depending on what I needed or if I found a really good sale (like I got my road shoes from Performance since I spied a pair of $99 shoes on sale for $12)

frenchyge said:

If you don't have "all-day" to ride the bike then I don't really see a reason to ride at all-day pace. There's no reason the OP couldn't mix moderate to higher intensities into the ride routine if ride time is limited. Her current 15-30 minutes of brisk walk effort riding isn't going to do much for a fairly fit person at all.

Thats why I said she should work up to 1 hour plus to build her endurance base so that when the time comes to cycle out side she can do all the lactate acid training she wants.

I'm so glad that you have considered my last comment as being a constructive one, not a negative one. You open the door for me to develop a bit more :

peanutzip said:

.... Will cycling alone be able to over time allow for my knees to have that supportive muscle for the increaseed rides?

Normally, I would say yes.

Cycling is all you need for your leg muscles (including articulation, tendoms and such) to develop properly. Moreover, that way, adaptation is probably more specific.

But because you have this condition with your knees, I am not qualified to properly answer this question. Physiotherapist would be more than happy to answer it better than I do. So I think you should consult a specialist on the matter.

But even then, learning to know what works best for you is... well... a learning process (trial and errors). So I don't want to be categoric. In my own personal case for example, I think that weight lifting may have been highly beneficial. As a way to improve general condition level (no direct relation to clycling), I think wl is good.

peanutzip said:

....
I do see where you're coming from. What would you recommend I keep for exercises then, so that I am still get some lower body weight training? Also, from reading one of the other threads, is it really a good idea to be doing the weight training before cycling?

Again, that is trial and error.

Safe answer would be : when you do legs, don't cycle the same day. Wait until the day after. That way, I you injured yourself as a result of the wl session, you will be notified by your knees. Often, the same day, we don't feel anything wrong. It takes few hours before feeling the pain.

Now if you have reasons for combining the two in the same day, well try it. It may work just fine. Wanting to spread the weekly mileage evenly over 6 days, could be a reason.

You have been told by other members, to follow a progression in your cycling time and intensity. Good advices. You may also want to consider a progression in the workload you put on your legs in your wl training.

If possible, see a specialist to get a solid and safe starting point. If not possible, then start with the exercices you fully trust. If you like the extention, then fine. Do it but don't add both the press and the squat and the lunges on top of it, they all put a great deal of stress on your knees. And then, as the season goes, you can add more exercices.

Often, what we consider that we should do "NOW", is really what we should gradually aim toward. It then comes down to establishing a progression that will safely lead us there.🙂

I see what you mean about not doing extensions, lunges, and squats all together because of the knee strain - I do notice it as well. Unfortunately, the gym doesn't really have a hamstring kickback machine where you're on your stomach (I agree...those are better for me). They have one where you're sitting up and pulling back (doesn't seem to really work for me as I end up using my calves more to pull back the weight) and one in the free weights room where you're on your stomach, but on an incline.

One of the reasons I'm only at 20 minutes at a time on the stationary bike so far is because I've been using hill/more resistance settings that by the time I get to 20 minutes, I am pretty tired. So, I haven't wanted to put too much pressure on my knees all of a sudden. (This time is up from 10 minutes where I started out with) It seems that there are some disputing opinions about whether or not I should be starting out with the least resistance possible to get up to more time on the bike, or keep the resistance and just try to add time each week as allowed. I am sort of confused with this...

I do spend about 1.5-2 hours/day at the gym, so it's more of a matter of what I should be doing to get up to an hour of that time on the bike the best/healthiest/most beneficial way. I can't wait to get a road bike and get out there, but for now this will have to do till the finances improve. (I'll at least have my mountain bike to get out more when the weather gets back to warm again, but our winters are pretty rough here.)

peanutzip said:

It seems that there are some disputing opinions about whether or not I should be starting out with the least resistance possible to get up to more time on the bike, or keep the resistance and just try to add time each week as allowed. I am sort of confused with this...

Sorry about any confusion, it's tough to be really specific without knowing all the details of your situation. I don't think there are really any disputing opinions on the cycling tips that have been given, since both GIFF07 and I are recommending that you gradually increase the duration of your cycling and use a lower intensity in order to protect your knees. The only dissention is *how much* to reduce your intensity, and that really depends on how much time you want to spend riding. In other words, if you only have 30 minutes to ride, then the intensity will need to be higher than if you had an hour or more to ride. That's just something you'll have to feel out as you *gradually* increase the duration of your rides. Until now, we really didn't know what was driving you to only doing 20 minute workouts on the stationary bike. In general, exercise intensity should be inversely proportional to duration, and that's why I'm not suggesting you use the 'least resistance possible,' per your quoted post.

We're both recommending working up to longer rides at a lower intensity than what you're doing now. As I said before, those longer rides will go a long way to strengthening the connective tissues in the joints. I think it's okay to mix in some moderate to higher intensities *if available time is limited,* to help prevent boredom, or as fitness increases. I'm sure the other posters will chime in if I've misinterpreted their intentions or left something out.

frenchyge said:

...We're both recommending working up to longer rides at a lower intensity than what you're doing now. As I said before, those longer rides will go a long way to strengthening the connective tissues in the joints. I think it's okay to mix in some moderate to higher intensities *if available time is limited,* to help prevent boredom, or as fitness increases. I'm sure the other posters will chime in if I've misinterpreted their intentions or left something out.

I agree frechyge.

To me, a good program would include base mileage, a bit of intense work, and if any, only physio orianted weight lifting leg work.

I think that some members have suggested that she should only do base mileage because of her involvment in a complete weight lifting leg program. On that matter, I think that if she wants to do wl leg work, she should wait until complete recovery before doing intense work on the bike. So it would give something like this :

Monday : WL - Upper body (split 1) + 30 minutes continuous base work
Tuesday : WL - Upper body (split 2) + 30 minutes including intense work
Wedsday : (hmmm. I hate WL because of this!!) but this one could be a day off considering intense work on bike the day before, and lower body wl the day after. If not off, very easy workout. Taking this one off makes this program a 5 day per week program. This wedsday can thus be considered as a buffer day.
Thursday : WL - Lower body + abs + lower back, no cycling
Friday : WL - Upper body (weaker points only) + 30 minutes very easy base work
Saturday : 20 minutes cycling warm-up + 20 to 40 minutes intense (cycling) work + abs + lower back. (bring a spare t-shirt to perform abs + lower back at the end, or do them at the begining)
Sunday off

This example assums that lower body is for physio purposes only. That way, once a week should be enough. Upper body program is split in 2 parts. The third upper body session consists of weak points training only.

If one more day off is required before performing saturday's cycling workout, then saturday can be taken off, and sunday can be used for the cycling only workout. My opinion, at least a day per week should be devoted a "long" cycling workout.

During ez weeks, saturdays can be base mileage work only (no intense work). Tuesday's cycling portion does not have to be all intense.

That leaves us with 2 intense days for cycling : Could be one hill work or short intervals (on tuesday), and one sustained tempo (on saterday or sunday).

I agree with what frenchyge has said, and I also agree with SolarEnergy in that there is no correct way for everyone to train, some of it is about experimentation to see what works best for you. Some very good advise has been given (much better than what I had when I started) so the most important thing to remember is that you are a beginner (in road cycling) so you will make some training mistakes. Don't worry about being confused, I have been at it for 6 years now and am still a bit confused from time to time. Each season you will make changes to your training so you can meet your goals for the next season. The most important thing to remember at least in the begining is to ride the bike lots if you want to improve.

Ok, I see where you're coming from now. I was confused as to the distinctions between time vs. resistance. I will continue to increase my time on the bike gradually (although I might need to start bringing something to read - gets kinda boring after awhile without scenery!) and use a resistance level that doesn't tire me out too quickly but still makes me feel like I'm working my legs (I know there's always work being done even if I can't feel it). Even though I'm not up to long distance level yet, I am a fairly fit person overall so I do agree that using the absolute lowest setting isn't going to help much. We'll see how my knees want to do things I suppose. cyclingforums.comwink.gifOpen ↗

I've stayed with the Sunday-Thursday routine because I am a manager for the Marching Band that requires running around/lifting things on Saturdays so I try to have Friday and Saturdays off from the gym to recover (sort of) and rest up for Saturday. I like the idea of a long cycling ride per week too...Sunday might be my day to do that best. So far, I've been alternating upper body with lower body weight training, plus cycling, although nothing too strenuous. What I might start doing is also cutting back some of the upper body exercises so I'm not over doing it. (1-2 per muscle, I usually have quite a few upper back exercises so it's tough to figure out which to cut and which to keep). I also usually alternate days between upper and lower abs (sort of - crunches, etc. vs. hanging leg lifts).

Any advice on back support? I have always had strong abdominals (still working on them too) but I know that the lower back takes a beating with the bent over nature of riding a road bike, even with one that fits properly. I've been doing some back extensions, but I'm not sure of what else to do to help my lower back strength-wise (not sure if this would help me at all). Know of any good stretches?

So, update for yesterday:

Did a half hour on the bike at a lower setting and I didn't push my HR up too high (stayed between 140-150). I could still feel my muscles working but I wasn't really straining myself either as I was before. The only complaint, which I've noticed before, is that my butt hurts during and after I ride. I figure it's mostly the seat because it's pretty generic but I'm wondering if I maybe have the seat too high or something? I find myself having to adjust my body every 5-10 minutes to move further back on the seat, but even that doesn't really help much. Or, should I be using 4-panel shorts for more comfort?

Also did some upper body strength training, but not exactly all the exercises I have been doing. I tried to stick to 1-2 exercises (except back I did 3) per muscle group.