Track frame question

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, I think this
<URL:http://www.cannondale.com/rush/images/6vm4krep.jpg>
a good looking bike,

Now that one does nothing for me at all.

Quoted message said:

and I think this
<URL:http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/02/images/large/j1000_02.jpg>
is a great looking bike (it's an 02, and is more gracile about the swing
arm and the trunnion cage than mine - but I like mine too!)

And that one does even less.

But life would be boring if we all liked the same stuff :-)

Cheers, helen s

wafflycat said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, I think this
<URL:http://www.cannondale.com/rush/images/6vm4krep.jpg>
a good looking bike,

Now that one does nothing for me at all.

That's because the back-end looks like the new suspended Trice rear swing
arm :-)

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

wafflycat' w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

Not just me then. The Cannondale referred to was indeed a
nice-looking bike. The Eddy wasn't in the same aesthetic standard,
alas. But you know what they say, that beauty is in the eye of the
beholder. Ferzample, I just can't find anything pleasing to look at
in a full-suspension mountain bike no matter how expensive and
top-of-the-range it may be, yet

http://www.cervelo.com/models/fullsize/2006_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.png

is a thing of exceeding beauty to mine offspring and I can see why as
it is a thing of beauty.

Does anyone here have any experience of making frames from composites
like carbon and kevlar? I'm guessing that a frame such as the one
above is made by cloth-layup and vacuum bagging rather than filament
winding.

I'd really love a recumbent trike but I just don't have enough money
to buy one right now or the right machining facilities to make one for
myself. The thought came to me that I could make a frame fairly
easily by shaping blue foam then laminating carbon and kevlar over it,
and reusing or making only the parts for wheel mounting, steering and
drive train.

Has anyone tried doing anything like this here?

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

Chris Eilbeck said:

Does anyone here have any experience of making frames from composites
like carbon and kevlar? I'm guessing that a frame such as the one
above is made by cloth-layup and vacuum bagging rather than filament
winding.

Unlikely. More likely to be pre-preg cloth and oven cooked molds.

Quoted message said:

I'd really love a recumbent trike but I just don't have enough money
to buy one right now or the right machining facilities to make one for
myself. The thought came to me that I could make a frame fairly
easily by shaping blue foam then laminating carbon and kevlar over it,
and reusing or making only the parts for wheel mounting, steering and
drive train.

Has anyone tried doing anything like this here?

I don't know if any of the regulars have but good starting points are:

http://robgillions.no-ip.info/ - Rob has built his own CF race
recumbents although a quick glance at the page reveals that his most
recent effort has broken. Rob offered some advice when I was looking at
doing a similar project, but time constraints prevented me from even
starting.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/howibuil.htm - The original CF
homebuilder.

http://www.framebuilding.com - The guys that I bought all the parts
from for my recumbent projects. Good source for dropouts and such like
that you'll need (If you dont have access to machining facilities).
Can't really recommend them enough. Despite how much of my money
they've liberated from me.

http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/ - Fibre glass supplier. Also supply CF /
Kevlar and the various chemicals, foams, waxs etc that you'll need.
I've bought Isopropanol from them for work and their service seemed
perfectly good.

Also somewhere (I don't remember where), someone was playing with a
method for making carbon tubes involving an external mold and spray
expanding foam. It seemed quite clever, although it did involve
construction in two halves with join tabs.

If you're thinking CF for a trike, then you have the option for some
very creative designs, but it is fairly complex if you want to get it
low. Another possibility might be to start with wood and epoxy. This
allows a little more space for foul-ups.

Jon

Jon is Away! said:

Chris Eilbeck said:

Does anyone here have any experience of making frames from composites
like carbon and kevlar? I'm guessing that a frame such as the one
above is made by cloth-layup and vacuum bagging rather than filament
winding.

Unlikely. More likely to be pre-preg cloth and oven cooked molds.

Curing ovens are pretty easy to build and I can certainly get hold of
pre-preg.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd really love a recumbent trike but I just don't have enough money
to buy one right now or the right machining facilities to make one for
myself. The thought came to me that I could make a frame fairly
easily by shaping blue foam then laminating carbon and kevlar over it,
and reusing or making only the parts for wheel mounting, steering and
drive train.

Has anyone tried doing anything like this here?

I don't know if any of the regulars have but good starting points are:

**snip**

http://robgillions.no-ip.info/
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/howibuil.htm
http://www.framebuilding.com - The guys that I bought all the parts
from for my recumbent projects. Good source for dropouts and such like
that you'll need (If you dont have access to machining facilities).

Thanks. I've got access to a small CNC mill and a small manual one at
work but no welder and no pipe bender, hence trying to get away from
the traditional tubular spine design.

Quoted message said:

http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/ - Fibre glass supplier. Also supply CF /
Kevlar and the various chemicals, foams, waxs etc that you'll need.
I've bought Isopropanol from them for work and their service seemed
perfectly good.

They are very good, I've bought quite a lot of my rocketbuilding
materials from them in the past.

Quoted message said:

Also somewhere (I don't remember where), someone was playing with a
method for making carbon tubes involving an external mold and spray
expanding foam. It seemed quite clever, although it did involve
construction in two halves with join tabs.

I've seen nosecones made like that only with a balloon inside to
compact the laminates.

Quoted message said:

If you're thinking CF for a trike, then you have the option for some
very creative designs, but it is fairly complex if you want to get
it low.

Mass isn't really the driver for this, $DEITY knows I could save a lot
more on my own frame than I could by optimising a bike one.

Quoted message said:

Another possibility might be to start with wood and epoxy. This
allows a little more space for foul-ups.

I had thought of that but blue foam is a lot easier to shape.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew http://www.mars.org.uk/
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

Quoted message said:

They are very good, I've bought quite a lot of my rocketbuilding
materials from them in the past.

Cripes, you must have shot up those hills.

Mark Thompson pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com said:

Quoted message said:

They are very good, I've bought quite a lot of my rocketbuilding
materials from them in the past.

Cripes, you must have shot up those hills.

Sooooo many people have tried to talk me into putting rocket motors on
my kite buggy. Yeah, no brakes and steering with my feet, that's
gonna happen!

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

wafflycat said:

Not just me then. The Cannondale referred to was indeed a nice-looking
bike. The Eddy wasn't in the same aesthetic standard, alas. But you know
what they say, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Ferzample, I
just can't find anything pleasing to look at in a full-suspension
mountain bike no matter how expensive and top-of-the-range it may be, yet

http://www.cervelo.com/models/fullsize/2006_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.png

is a thing of exceeding beauty to mine offspring and I can see why as it
is a thing of beauty.

Something like the original Cannondale Raven is /far/ more curvaceous
than that thing which is all hard angles and sticky-out bits. The
Cannondale has cleaner lines and more interesting design and engineering
as well.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Chris Eilbeck said:

Curing ovens are pretty easy to build and I can certainly get hold of
pre-preg.

For one-offs I don't know that there's a major disadvantage to lay-up
and bagging. In theory you can get the weight lower with pre-preg, but
the additional wrk may not be worth it.

Quoted message said:

Thanks. I've got access to a small CNC mill and a small manual one at
work but no welder and no pipe bender, hence trying to get away from
the traditional tubular spine design.

Ceeway (framebuilding.com) sell alloy and titanium parts as well as
steel, so you can go for something with a little more style without
having to worry too much about joining techniques. That said I did come
across some discussion about corrosion between CF and Alu which
involves the use of a glass-fibre separator. Also worth bearing in mind
that Alu needs treatment for proper epoxy bonding. (I'm just trying to
get you to use titanium!)

Quoted message said:

I've seen nosecones made like that only with a balloon inside to
compact the laminates.

After reading the article I did wonder about that. The foam worked well
because of the lengths involved, but a selection of sausage balloons
might solve that.

Quoted message said:

Mass isn't really the driver for this, $DEITY knows I could save a lot
more on my own frame than I could by optimising a bike one.

I meant low, as in low to the ground. You suffer from chain routing
problems, but with steel its fairly easy to add roller mounts, while
you'd really have to have planned for that with CF. You could check to
some extent during the blue foam stage.

Jon

Anyone have an opinion on the NYCBikes fixed frame? There's a bunch of
them on ebay for reasonable amounts of dosh, as well as flip-flop
hubbed wheels.

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Bennett

() said:

wafflycat said:

http://www.cervelo.com/models/fullsize/2006_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.png

Eww. Pugly.

William. All sorts of nasty sticky-out bits. Eeuw. No this:

<URL:http://users.skynet.be/cobrabikes/pic/Lowracer%20afbeelding%
202.JPG>

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Frozen gorillas can be used to control the temperature of a warm and
stuffy room.

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Bennett

() said:

wafflycat said:

http://www.cervelo.com/models/fullsize/2006_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.png

Eww. Pugly.

William. All sorts of nasty sticky-out bits. Eeuw. No this:

<URL:http://users.skynet.be/cobrabikes/pic/Lowracer%20afbeelding%
202.JPG>

very peculiar all terrain bike indeed!

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Dave Larrington said:

<URL:http://users.skynet.be/cobrabikes/pic/Lowracer%20afbeelding%
202.JPG>

If the chainwheel were much bigger it would be a trike, but otherwise a
/very/ nice looking bit of kit.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch

() said:

Dave Larrington said:

<URL:http://users.skynet.be/cobrabikes/pic/Lowracer%20afbeelding%
202.JPG>

If the chainwheel were much bigger it would be a trike, but otherwise a
/very/ nice looking bit of kit.

My chum Dr. Sidwell is assembling one for the coming season, and also
doing the "T" word, so I fear I will lose /another/ place in 2006.

Bah!

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
I am now returned from both the seventeenth century and the Post Office.

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Bennett

() said:

wafflycat wrote:

http://www.cervelo.com/models/fullsize/2006_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.png
Eww. Pugly.

A Cervelo? Pugly?

<slaps Simon's face with track mitt>

Low pros at dawn sir (that'd be 7:30 am on the A1!). I'll be the guy
with the P2K!

ExGraun

"TheBagbournes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Bennett

() said:

wafflycat wrote:

http://www.cervelo.com/models/fullsize/2006_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.png
Eww. Pugly.

A Cervelo? Pugly?

<slaps Simon's face with track mitt>

Low pros at dawn sir (that'd be 7:30 am on the A1!). I'll be the guy with
the P2K!

ExGraun

Fight!! Fight!!! Bets anyone???

(Just don't scratch the Cervelo...)

Cheers, helen s