Touring bikes

Ryan Cousineau wrote in part:

<< In practice, I find it's a matter of habits. On a bicycle, there are
precious few hazards you can accelerate away from, so being in the
optimal gear is not a safety issue. With that understood, it becomes
clear that gear-changing is always a secondary concern, and you leave
the gears alone when your full attention should be on the road. >>

True.

<< Since upshifts mean acceleration, they're almost always done in
circumstances where the way ahead is clear (if you're not sure if the
way ahead is clear, you shouldn't be upshifting, you should be braking).
For downshifts, the worst-case scenario where you get stuck in a
too-high gear is not a safety issue, it's a comfort-and-convenience
issue. ...<snip>>>

I think the comfort and convenience issues alone
make for a significant advantage for commuters and rec riders. But the safety
issues shouldn't be written
off. Eventually, having to take a hand off the bars
all the time to shift tends to become a factor in some
sort of incident. Not only does brifter shifting
keep both hands on the bars, it puts them on the
brake levers.

<< > <<Considering buying a track bike,

Quoted message said:

-- >>

Once you are considering it,
it's already too late.

Nah. I'm really cheap. But my riding buddies are encouraging me. >>

Track bikes are the weapon of choice
for cheap guys. Fixed gears are great
if you're too cheap to
buy brakes.

Robert

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Milesahead57) said:

Track bikes are the weapon of choice
for cheap guys. Fixed gears are great
if you're too cheap to
buy brakes.

I understand they have certain anti-theft qualities, too.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

the black rose said:

So you guys that gots tourers -- what do you got, and what do you like
about it, and what do you recommend?

I don't own a tourer currently, but if I was in the market, I'd probably
hit up eBay--but that's a place to go only if you're already pretty
familiar with brands and whatnot. Shipping for most bikes is around $40.
This route really is for the person that does their own wrenching imho.

REI makes a nice sturdy affordable ride called the Randonee. It's steel
and rather majestic in its ride with the long wheelbase and all. Lists at
around $800, but you can get steep discounts this fall. A few other makers
build similar bikes--the dedicated tourer is a bit of a rare breed.

A really good option is to check out a "cyclocross" bike, a version of the
racing bike with stronger bits and canti brakes that insane Brits use
to muddy themselves on the moors. Most of them sold here in the states are
used for urban commuting and touring. They're very similar in feel to the
eighties touring bikes, and usually come with all the nice braze ons for
racks and plenty of clearance for fenders and fat rubber--or not. I'd
purchase an inexpensive extra set of wheels/cassette/tires online for $150
or so and have a wide 700x37 set and a speedier 700x25. Two bikes for the
price of one, almost.
😄

Tell your husband to browse momovelo.com, not to necessarily purchase a
bike from them--but to have a blast and get his brain churning--there's so
many options and ways of building a bike that's just for you. It doesn't
have to be a "touring" bike, make up your own category and go from there.

😄

Quoted message said:

So you guys that gots tourers -- what do you got, and what do you like
about it, and what do you recommend?

I have a 1998 Heron Touring and a 198? Schwinn Cross-Fit.

I like them both, they have somewhat complementary roles inasmuch
as the Schwinn is the dedicated commuter that got downgraded to
that role vice the Heron for pure touring.

Either one is fine for either mission, except that the Heron has
racks front and rear whereas the Schwinn only has a rear rack.

Both have 700C (622mm) Sun CR-18 rims, seven speed freewheel all
completelely interchangeable between the bikes.

The Heron is geared half step plus granny, the Schwinn is a typical
big three ring hybrid Shimano setup.

So I have a long range heavy (not that the Heron is heavy, it can
definitetely carry a load though) tourer and a medium weight city
utility bike, geared appropriately.

Flat bars on the Schwinn, drops on the Heron.

These are old bikes, or old-style bikes. But for touring the frame
geometries are as modern as anything you can get, for sure.

The running gear is old and primitive seven speed with friction
shifters, thumbs on the Schwinn and Suntour barcons on the Heron.

Stuff that's bog simple to repair or kludge in the field, you don't
want anything too complex on a tourer or commuter.

I run Conti TT2Ks on both bikes, 37 I think on the commuter and 32
on the tourer.

A Trek 520 is midway between these two rides.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

the black rose said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Meanwhile, there's this huge surplus of used hardware that just sits
around, unloved, and is perfect for the sort of use your husband would
put it to.

--snip--

Quoted message said:

But, de gustibus et cetera. Your husband may desire the motivation of
a really nice new bicycle. It is a scientific fact that shiny new
bicycles are faster than rusty old bicycles, even when all variables
(weight, gearing, de-rusting the drivetrain) are controlled for.

Hmmm. I need to talk to him, probably. He's not the sort that needs a
new toy to be shiny and new for him to be interested in it; we're
talking about a man who gets very excited about dusty old books. So
possibly a vintage bike would be interesting to him. And I bet the
techs at our favorite LBS would get enthusiastic about such an animal
(because we'd have to have them fix it up for us -- neither of us knows
a thing about bike tech other than Cleaning and Lubing The Chain Is A
Good Thing).

I'm deeply suspicious of Ebay though. I just can't get used to the idea
of a world-wide electronic garage sale cum flea market. Hmm, it's
Saturday, definitely worth looking in the Sunday paper classifieds...

Thanks for the idea. :-)

-km

Point him at Ebay and get him looking at vintage bikes with Sturmey-Archer
hubs with 3 speeds and coaster brakes. I had more than one and the latest
was a few years back and I rode it on a near century on the yearly Bike
around the Buttes event here. I had metal saddle bags and a big paper boy
delivery rack on the front and all the serious racers did a double take,
but I had all the food and water (o.J.) I could carry. The ten mile rest
stops
and free food and drink were nice but I did not always have to stop for
them. The 3 speed hub did not cause me any noticeable slowdown and the 3
gears worked out to be about right. So I didn' ride a 20 MPH, big deal.
No complaint about the older quality bikes. Lots and lots of stuff on Ebay,
so you can find almost anything there. Have fun,
Bill Bak

--
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the black rose said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Meanwhile, there's this huge surplus of used hardware that just sits
around, unloved, and is perfect for the sort of use your husband would
put it to.

--snip--

Quoted message said:

But, de gustibus et cetera. Your husband may desire the motivation of
a really nice new bicycle. It is a scientific fact that shiny new
bicycles are faster than rusty old bicycles, even when all variables
(weight, gearing, de-rusting the drivetrain) are controlled for.

Hmmm. I need to talk to him, probably. He's not the sort that needs a
new toy to be shiny and new for him to be interested in it; we're
talking about a man who gets very excited about dusty old books. So
possibly a vintage bike would be interesting to him. And I bet the
techs at our favorite LBS would get enthusiastic about such an animal
(because we'd have to have them fix it up for us -- neither of us knows
a thing about bike tech other than Cleaning and Lubing The Chain Is A
Good Thing).

I'm deeply suspicious of Ebay though. I just can't get used to the idea
of a world-wide electronic garage sale cum flea market. Hmm, it's
Saturday, definitely worth looking in the Sunday paper classifieds...

Thanks for the idea. :-)

-km

Point him at Ebay and get him looking at vintage bikes with Sturmey-Archer
hubs with 3 speeds and coaster brakes. I had more than one and the latest
was a few years back and I rode it on a near century on the yearly Bike
around the Buttes event here. I had metal saddle bags and a big paper boy
delivery rack on the front and all the serious racers did a double take,
but I had all the food and water (o.J.) I could carry. The ten mile rest
stops
and free food and drink were nice but I did not always have to stop for
them. The 3 speed hub did not cause me any noticeable slowdown and the 3
gears worked out to be about right. So I didn' ride a 20 MPH, big deal.
No complaint about the older quality bikes. Lots and lots of stuff on Ebay,
so you can find almost anything there. Have fun,
Bill Bak

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Meanwhile, there's this huge surplus of used hardware that just sits
around, unloved, and is perfect for the sort of use your husband would
put it to.

--snip--

Quoted message said:

But, de gustibus et cetera. Your husband may desire the motivation of

a

Quoted message said:

really nice new bicycle. It is a scientific fact that shiny new

bicycles

Quoted message said:

are faster than rusty old bicycles, even when all variables (weight,
gearing, de-rusting the drivetrain) are controlled for.

Hmmm. I need to talk to him, probably. He's not the sort that needs a
new toy to be shiny and new for him to be interested in it; we're
talking about a man who gets very excited about dusty old books. So
possibly a vintage bike would be interesting to him. And I bet the
techs at our favorite LBS would get enthusiastic about such an animal
(because we'd have to have them fix it up for us -- neither of us knows
a thing about bike tech other than Cleaning and Lubing The Chain Is A
Good Thing).

I'm deeply suspicious of Ebay though. I just can't get used to the idea
of a world-wide electronic garage sale cum flea market. Hmm, it's
Saturday, definitely worth looking in the Sunday paper classifieds...

eBay is not a good source for this sort of thing. The issue is that for
a bicycle, and especially a cheap bicycle, shipping costs will be a
significant proportion of the transaction price.

Classifieds are an acceptable resource, but I've had my very best luck
with aggressive garage sale trolling. Such shopping is highly
serendipitous, but most likely to produce a decent bike.

I buy anything from a whole bike to a box of parts at garage sales.
Sometimes, widows, divorcees and just dump guys with too much money
in their new bike are almost giving stuff away. Never take more than
about $30 with you and tell yourself that it has to last. Later you
may be surprised at how much you can come home with. I try to find
bikes with the removeable cranks (square taper press fit) because those
are inherently better quality than the one piece Chinese crank.
Go for it.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

If you're comparing against bikes you can just buy at your LBS, keep in
mind that any bike you drag home will need at least a tune-up (lube,
adjustment, possibly some bearings), and replacing the chain, cables,
brake pads and freewheel cluster is a good idea. The tires may or may
not be in usable shape, and a lot of these bikes have crappy brakes. I
like to replace at least the front with a new brake, of which the
cheap-and-cheerful modernization is a Shimano RSX, or any fairly decent
recent dual-pivot brake. The low-end Dia-Compe brakes just seem to give
me great trouble, apparently because the brake body can flex too much or
something.

If there's a shop in your area that specializes in used bikes, they'll
probably have something, too. They cost more than garage sales, but you
don't have to visit 40 garage sales to find a bike you can use.

Finally, don't bother with a bike with steel wheels. Having aluminum
rims is just about the most consistent dividing line between really
terrible 20-year-old road bikes and rideable 20-year-old road bikes.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the idea. :-)

Glad to be of service,

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Bill Baka said:

I try to find
bikes with the removeable cranks (square taper press fit) because those
are inherently better quality than the one piece Chinese crank.

*blink* One more time, in Middle-Aged Mom? Remember, all I know how to
do is oil the chain. That's ALL I know about bike maintenance, other
than "when the handling feels odd or it makes funny noises, take it to
the shop and let Jim work on it." ;-)

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

58 cm Atlantis for sale at ebay

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Bill Baka said:

I try to find
bikes with the removeable cranks (square taper press fit) because those
are inherently better quality than the one piece Chinese crank.

*blink* One more time, in Middle-Aged Mom? Remember, all I know how to
do is oil the chain. That's ALL I know about bike maintenance, other
than "when the handling feels odd or it makes funny noises, take it to
the shop and let Jim work on it." ;-)

He's talking about cottered versus cotterless (square-taper) cranks,
which are the two common pedal attachment mechanisms on good road bikes
before the recent trend to various splined and other designs.

square-taper cranks, aka "cotterless" are what you probably have on your
bike right now, and were a great improvement on the previous method,
cottered cranks. Let's not get into how a cottered crank works: it's not
important. What is important is that if you have a choice, you want to
avoid cottered cranks.

Unless the bike supply where you live is much different from mine,
almost none of the touring bikes you might find that are good enough to
consider taking home will have cottered cranks. Of the dozen or so bikes
I have dragged home, exactly one had a cottered bottom bracket (an old
Chiorda; the spindle will be replaced).

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Kenneth said:

Oooops, I should have provided:

http://www.bgcycles.com/rnr.html for Bruce's bikes, and will add that
the finest panniers I have ever seen are made by Bob Beckman Designs.
They are at http://www.coinet.com/~beckman/index.html

$149 for a rack?!?!?

"They improve on the racks of today as much as those racks improved on
the Pletscher". Hey, what was wrong with the Pletscher? It had that
spring-loaded clamp on it - that thing was handy. Don't see anything
like that on this fancy new rack.

Dave

Dave Stallard said:

Kenneth said:

Oooops, I should have provided:

http://www.bgcycles.com/rnr.html for Bruce's bikes, and will add that
the finest panniers I have ever seen are made by Bob Beckman Designs.
They are at http://www.coinet.com/~beckman/index.html

$149 for a rack?!?!?

"They improve on the racks of today as much as those racks improved on
the Pletscher". Hey, what was wrong with the Pletscher? It had that
spring-loaded clamp on it - that thing was handy. Don't see anything
like that on this fancy new rack.

Dave

Hi Dave,

If you don't understand the difference (and the reason for the price)
then you are clearly wise to stick with the Pletscher...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

jay westra said:

58 cm Atlantis for sale at ebay

Bah. DH needs a 56.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Kenneth said:

If you don't understand the difference (and the reason for the price)
then you are clearly wise to stick with the Pletscher...

Well then, enlighten me. And what about that spring clamp? 😉

Dave

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Bill Baka said:

I try to find
bikes with the removeable cranks (square taper press fit) because

those

Quoted message said:

are inherently better quality than the one piece Chinese crank.

*blink* One more time, in Middle-Aged Mom? Remember, all I know how to
do is oil the chain. That's ALL I know about bike maintenance, other
than "when the handling feels odd or it makes funny noises, take it to
the shop and let Jim work on it." ;-)

He's talking about cottered versus cotterless (square-taper) cranks,
which are the two common pedal attachment mechanisms on good road bikes
before the recent trend to various splined and other designs.

square-taper cranks, aka "cotterless" are what you probably have on your
bike right now, and were a great improvement on the previous method,
cottered cranks. Let's not get into how a cottered crank works: it's not
important. What is important is that if you have a choice, you want to
avoid cottered cranks.

Unless the bike supply where you live is much different from mine,
almost none of the touring bikes you might find that are good enough to
consider taking home will have cottered cranks. Of the dozen or so bikes
I have dragged home, exactly one had a cottered bottom bracket (an old
Chiorda; the spindle will be replaced).

I guess I have to add to this. I went into my 2 LBS stores and they had
a number of cruisers and tandems, all with those damn one piece cranks.
What if one rider likes a different size, too bad. Even many of the
regular bikes being offered had the Chinese cheap cranks,
very disappointing. Wal-mart has 3 out of maybe 30 bikes that have the
square taper removeable cranks, and the LBS shops weren't doing that
much better until the price tag got to about $400 or more.
I stay far away from one piece cranks and those stupid center pull
brakes. Horizontal will stop you even if you do go over the handlebar.
Front chainrings should also be able to be changed, which only happens
if you can take the crank off, and on some of those the 3 chainrings
are riveted together as one piece. A little knowledge will steer you
clear of a bum deal.
Bill Baka

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Dave Stallard <stallard@bbn_no_.com_spam> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Kenneth said:

If you don't understand the difference (and the reason for the price)
then you are clearly wise to stick with the Pletscher...

Well then, enlighten me. And what about that spring clamp? 😉

I don't know if it's necessary to go as high as BG's racks, but I do
know how important is is that a rack not flex under load, especially
when descending on a curve on a fully loaded touring bike. Even if the
rack doesn't collapse, feeling all that weight shift -- and not shift
back -- is scary.

I also know that if the purpose of your rack is to support panniers
and rack trunks, the spring clamp just gets in the way.

If the purpose of your rack is to support panniers and rack trunks on
a tour, then you want something heavy-duty and bulletproof that will
last the lifetime of the bike.

If the purpose of your rack is to carry odds and ends of unpredictable
size and shape around town, then zip-tying a milk crate to a cheap
aluminum rack will probably do the job better than a steel rack with a
spring clamp.

RichC (who occasionally misses that big newspaper basket on the
handlebars of his 1959 Sears cruiser)

RichC said:

I also know that if the purpose of your rack is to support panniers
and rack trunks, the spring clamp just gets in the way.

Well, it's a long time ago now, but as I recall I would roll up my nylon
tarp, and then spring clamp that onto the Pletscher, which held it quit
well. Then I would bungie cord other stuff like sleeping bag etc. on
top of that. I had rear panniers and a front pannier as well. Seemed to
work pretty well.

Dave

I've got a Trek 520 and I couldn't be happier.

I had long been eyeballing a Co-Motion but was deterred by paying that much for
a bike that -- as is the case with bikes in general -- is so vulnerable to
theft.

The 520 was a good compromise. My local bike mechanic says he thinks it one of
the best bike bargains there is. The steel frame has a wonderful road feel.
Mine is loaded with fenders, racks, etc. Although when I was younger I did a
lot of touring and camping on a Raleigh Grand Prix, these days I mostly commute
and lug heavy groceries home. The 520 works admirably, and also would be
perfect for long-distance touring.

"the black rose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

*blink* One more time, in Middle-Aged Mom? Remember, all I know how to
do is oil the chain. That's ALL I know about bike maintenance,

As one MAM to another, you should also learn how to strip and then re-lube
the drivetrain. Don't lube a dirty chain.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
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Home of the meditative cyclist:
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