Token BB vs FSA MegaExo

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...

I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?

Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie said:

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let me clarify what I want exactly :

Ceramic BB (ISIS) + a lightweight ISIS Crankset

What I have now is an old shimano 9 speed dura ace (i bought it second
hand) with octalink.

I wanted to know the best product combo to go for, and cheapest
option. I want to stay away from FSA but I'm not really sure why, and
why other folks don't like them either. Any particular reason?
Stronglight has a good reputation and that token BB looks sweeeet! The
cassette also has CT2 ceramic teflon coating which must be cool to run
with a titanium chain to minimize chainring wear. I'm not sure though.

FSA on the other hand is popular in the pro peleton.. Give me a few
reasons to hate them and save my pockets.

B.D

Jay Beattie said:

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Ti in the BB is a coating on the race, not exactly a Ti axle or
something. Maybe you should clarify what you meant in your last
sentence.I didn't get you.

BD

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...

I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?

Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Thx.

B.D

I'd go with an outboard 2-piece (mega-exo), but I wouldn't do ceramic.
Too much money for not enough benefit.

The size of the ISIS spindle means smaller balls, and shorter bearing
life. If you don't already have an ISIS setup, I wouldn't invest in
it.

My preference would be Campy Ultra-Torque. Coming soon in a Centaur
Carbon model, if you want carbon. If not, Centaur or Veloce are both
fine, available in full-size or compact. I have the Veloce CT-UT on my
Guerciotti. Nice crank.

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Let me clarify what I want exactly :

Ceramic BB (ISIS) + a lightweight ISIS Crankset

What I have now is an old shimano 9 speed dura ace (i bought it second
hand) with octalink.

I wanted to know the best product combo to go for, and cheapest
option. I want to stay away from FSA but I'm not really sure why, and
why other folks don't like them either. Any particular reason?
Stronglight has a good reputation and that token BB looks sweeeet! The
cassette also has CT2 ceramic teflon coating which must be cool to run
with a titanium chain to minimize chainring wear. I'm not sure though.

FSA on the other hand is popular in the pro peleton.. Give me a few
reasons to hate them and save my pockets.

Their products are flashy but not durable, at least based my
experience with a broken wheel, BB and crank (and the experience of
others on this NG). So, it sounds like you do not want ISIS but
rather want Octalink -- which is a slightly more durable version of
the oversized spline drive system. You can get any old Octalink v1 BB
you like, but again, I would not waste my time with Ti due to the
expense -- unless you find a BB with replaceable bearings. It's the
bearings that fail because they are too small. I think RaceFace makes
model with replaceable bearings, but I am not sure. -- Jay Beattie..

Hank Wirtz said:

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Thx.

Quoted message said:

B.D

I'd go with an outboard 2-piece (mega-exo), but I wouldn't do ceramic.
Too much money for not enough benefit.

The size of the ISIS spindle means smaller balls, and shorter bearing
life. If you don't already have an ISIS setup, I wouldn't invest in
it.

My preference would be Campy Ultra-Torque. Coming soon in a Centaur
Carbon model, if you want carbon. If not, Centaur or Veloce are both
fine, available in full-size or compact. I have the Veloce CT-UT on my
Guerciotti. Nice crank.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But the MegaEXO bb is advertised to have oversized bearings.

Jay Beattie said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 11:45 am, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
> companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
> some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
> Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
> pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
> ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
> get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
> underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Let me clarify what I want exactly :

Quoted message said:

Ceramic BB (ISIS) + a lightweight ISIS Crankset

Quoted message said:

What I have now is an old shimano 9 speed dura ace (i bought it second
hand) with octalink.

Quoted message said:

I wanted to know the best product combo to go for, and cheapest
option. I want to stay away from FSA but I'm not really sure why, and
why other folks don't like them either. Any particular reason?
Stronglight has a good reputation and that token BB looks sweeeet! The
cassette also has CT2 ceramic teflon coating which must be cool to run
with a titanium chain to minimize chainring wear. I'm not sure though.

Quoted message said:

FSA on the other hand is popular in the pro peleton.. Give me a few
reasons to hate them and save my pockets.

Their products are flashy but not durable, at least based my
experience with a broken wheel, BB and crank (and the experience of
others on this NG). So, it sounds like you do not want ISIS but
rather want Octalink -- which is a slightly more durable version of
the oversized spline drive system. You can get any old Octalink v1 BB
you like, but again, I would not waste my time with Ti due to the
expense -- unless you find a BB with replaceable bearings. It's the
bearings that fail because they are too small. I think RaceFace makes
model with replaceable bearings, but I am not sure. -- Jay Beattie..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So in other words, you're not advising me to go from octalink to ISIS
due to durability issues? I thought in this age and time, ISIS would
have improved its design over the past years.

BD

Jay Beattie said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 11:45 am, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
> companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
> some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
> Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
> pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
> ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
> get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
> underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Let me clarify what I want exactly :

Quoted message said:

Ceramic BB (ISIS) + a lightweight ISIS Crankset

Quoted message said:

What I have now is an old shimano 9 speed dura ace (i bought it second
hand) with octalink.

Quoted message said:

I wanted to know the best product combo to go for, and cheapest
option. I want to stay away from FSA but I'm not really sure why, and
why other folks don't like them either. Any particular reason?
Stronglight has a good reputation and that token BB looks sweeeet! The
cassette also has CT2 ceramic teflon coating which must be cool to run
with a titanium chain to minimize chainring wear. I'm not sure though.

Quoted message said:

FSA on the other hand is popular in the pro peleton.. Give me a few
reasons to hate them and save my pockets.

Their products are flashy but not durable, at least based my
experience with a broken wheel, BB and crank (and the experience of
others on this NG). So, it sounds like you do not want ISIS but
rather want Octalink -- which is a slightly more durable version of
the oversized spline drive system. You can get any old Octalink v1 BB
you like, but again, I would not waste my time with Ti due to the
expense -- unless you find a BB with replaceable bearings. It's the
bearings that fail because they are too small. I think RaceFace makes
model with replaceable bearings, but I am not sure. -- Jay Beattie..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I got this from FSA's website.

ISIS-Drive vs. Octalink

ISIS-Drive BB's with 22mm diameter axles have superior strength and
stiffness compared to Octalink BB's (also 22mm axles), which in turn
were already an improvement over square-taper BB axles (17mm diameter
axles). In our testing, ISIS-Drive BB's are typically at least
20~30% stronger and stiffer than Octalink, for comparable BB's (i.e.
we weren't using M12 DH ISIS-Drive BB's). Strength and stiffness of
ISIS-Drive set the bar high in those categories. Going to the 24mm
diameter axle used in integrated-BB's offers a marginal improvement,
only a 9% diameter increase. In comparison, the 22mm axle is already
29% larger diameter than the old benchmark 17mm axle.

Currently, FSA ISIS-Drive BB bearing life is acceptable, although in
the past, many ISIS-Drive BB's suffered from short bearing life. The
same oversize axle that is great for strength and stiffness presented
engineering and manufacturing challenges to fit bearings with a high
enough load capacity inside the BB shell. (High-end Octalink BB's had
similar problems.) The difficulty of engineering ISIS bearings can be
evidenced by the fact that one of the 3 members of the ISIS-Drive
Committee never produced an ISIS-Drive BB, while another member was
the first to follow with an external bearing BB.

FSA has used it's bearing know-how to develop long-lasting ISIS-Drive
bearing BB's. Last year, CSC was on ISIS-Drive with good results
(ridden to 3 stage wins in the Tour de France)! We have taken the
feedback from CSC and have continued to improve our ISIS-Drive BB's by
introducing high-end quadruple bearing versions with improved sealing,
under the designation "MegaQuad".

Quoted message said:

But the MegaEXO bb is advertised to have oversized bearings.

And it's not ISIS. It's for a 2-piece crank.

Hank Wirtz said:

Quoted message said:

But the MegaEXO bb is advertised to have oversized bearings.

And it's not ISIS. It's for a 2-piece crank.

You are right, mega exo is not ISIS and is 2 piece. But I'm not sure
why people seem to think the new ISIS compares badly with Octalink.
Token BB seems like a great BB. Here's the spec sheet I obtained from
an EBAY seller. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280144359554&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz said:

On Aug 22, 9:47 am, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But the MegaEXO bb is advertised to have oversized bearings.

Quoted message said:

And it's not ISIS. It's for a 2-piece crank.

You are right, mega exo is not ISIS and is 2 piece. But I'm not sure
why people seem to think the new ISIS compares badly with Octalink.
Token BB seems like a great BB. Here's the spec sheet I obtained from
an EBAY seller.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280144359554&...

You said you have a Dura Ace crank. You can't use ISIS on a Dura Ace
crank. You have to use Octalink. Now, if you are buying an ALL NEW
CRANK, you should buy a two-piece crank and get an outboard BB. You
cannot use an outboard BB on a standard crank such as your Dura Ace.
Outboard is not an option for you. The MegaExo BB is not an option
for you. Go buy yourself a nice Shimano Octalink BB. -- Jay Beattie.

Quoted message said:

You are right, mega exo is not ISIS and is 2 piece. But I'm not sure
why people seem to think the new ISIS compares badly with Octalink.

Who said it compares badly with Octalink? I think the conventional
wisdom here is that they're equally flawed. Oversized spindle + fixed
shell diameter = small bearings. Only way to get around that and keep
the larger spindle is to increase the shell size, which they
accomplish by moving the bearings outside of the shell.

And a spec sheet isn't going to point out a standard's weaknesses.

Jay Beattie said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 1:43 pm, Hank Wirtz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 9:47 am, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> But the MegaEXO bb is advertised to have oversized bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And it's not ISIS. It's for a 2-piece crank.

Quoted message said:

You are right, mega exo is not ISIS and is 2 piece. But I'm not sure
why people seem to think the new ISIS compares badly with Octalink.
Token BB seems like a great BB. Here's the spec sheet I obtained from
an EBAY seller.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280144359554&...

You said you have a Dura Ace crank. You can't use ISIS on a Dura Ace
crank. You have to use Octalink. Now, if you are buying an ALL NEW
CRANK, you should buy a two-piece crank and get an outboard BB. You
cannot use an outboard BB on a standard crank such as your Dura Ace.
Outboard is not an option for you. The MegaExo BB is not an option
for you. Go buy yourself a nice Shimano Octalink BB. -- Jay Beattie.

Yes I want to change my crankset/BB system totally from what I have
now.

It comes down to ISIS vs MegaExo.

Hank Wirtz said:

Quoted message said:

You are right, mega exo is not ISIS and is 2 piece. But I'm not sure
why people seem to think the new ISIS compares badly with Octalink.

Who said it compares badly with Octalink? I think the conventional
wisdom here is that they're equally flawed. Oversized spindle + fixed
shell diameter = small bearings. Only way to get around that and keep
the larger spindle is to increase the shell size, which they
accomplish by moving the bearings outside of the shell.

And a spec sheet isn't going to point out a standard's weaknesses.

They have been saying ISIS has improved their designs over the years
since they had bearing issues.
On the other hand, I pick up a lot of conflicting stories about BB
designs. Some say ISIS is the best, its the stiffest, some swear by
its weaknesses...

I would think that FSA's megaExo is a better design from what you have
pointed out.

That leaves me with one question. I know FSA's races are made of
hardened tool steel. The spec page for Token's ISIS BB claims it
features proprietary Titanium coated bearing races and cones. What is
the advantage of doing this and does this fare any better when
compared to what FSA has?

B.D

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz said:

On Aug 22, 10:52 am, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You are right, mega exo is not ISIS and is 2 piece. But I'm not sure
why people seem to think the new ISIS compares badly with Octalink.

Quoted message said:

Who said it compares badly with Octalink? I think the conventional
wisdom here is that they're equally flawed. Oversized spindle + fixed
shell diameter = small bearings. Only way to get around that and keep
the larger spindle is to increase the shell size, which they
accomplish by moving the bearings outside of the shell.

Quoted message said:

And a spec sheet isn't going to point out a standard's weaknesses.

They have been saying ISIS has improved their designs over the years
since they had bearing issues.
On the other hand, I pick up a lot of conflicting stories about BB
designs. Some say ISIS is the best, its the stiffest, some swear by
its weaknesses...

I would think that FSA's megaExo is a better design from what you have
pointed out.

That leaves me with one question. I know FSA's races are made of
hardened tool steel. The spec page for Token's ISIS BB claims it
features proprietary Titanium coated bearing races and cones. What is
the advantage of doing this and does this fare any better when
compared to what FSA has?

B.D

I wouldn't think any coating would be preferable as with the forces
involved I would not be surprised to hear of the different materials
separating, further a tool steel race would smoothen and harden with
use

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...
I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..
I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..
In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?
Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz said:

I'd go with an outboard 2-piece (mega-exo), but I wouldn't do ceramic.
Too much money for not enough benefit.
The size of the ISIS spindle means smaller balls, and shorter bearing
life. If you don't already have an ISIS setup, I wouldn't invest in
it.
My preference would be Campy Ultra-Torque. Coming soon in a Centaur
Carbon model, if you want carbon. If not, Centaur or Veloce are both
fine, available in full-size or compact. I have the Veloce CT-UT on my
Guerciotti. Nice crank.

Quoted message said:

But the MegaEXO bb is advertised to have oversized bearings.

woo hoo.
oversized bearings, eh?

As they say, "that, and a dollar, will get you on the subway"
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
>> companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
>> some of the old problems with ISIS...
>> I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..
>> I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
>> Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
>> pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..
>> In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
>> ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
>> get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
>> underlying reasons?
>> Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
> for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
> buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
> Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
> expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
> shouldn't waste Ti.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Let me clarify what I want exactly :
Ceramic BB (ISIS) + a lightweight ISIS Crankset
What I have now is an old shimano 9 speed dura ace (i bought it second
hand) with octalink.
I wanted to know the best product combo to go for, and cheapest
option. I want to stay away from FSA but I'm not really sure why, and
why other folks don't like them either. Any particular reason?
Stronglight has a good reputation and that token BB looks sweeeet! The
cassette also has CT2 ceramic teflon coating which must be cool to run
with a titanium chain to minimize chainring wear. I'm not sure though.
FSA on the other hand is popular in the pro peleton.. Give me a few
reasons to hate them and save my pockets.

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

Their products are flashy but not durable, at least based my
experience with a broken wheel, BB and crank (and the experience of
others on this NG). So, it sounds like you do not want ISIS but
rather want Octalink -- which is a slightly more durable version of
the oversized spline drive system. You can get any old Octalink v1 BB
you like, but again, I would not waste my time with Ti due to the
expense -- unless you find a BB with replaceable bearings. It's the
bearings that fail because they are too small. I think RaceFace makes
model with replaceable bearings, but I am not sure.

Quoted message said:

I got this from FSA's website.
ISIS-Drive vs. Octalink
ISIS-Drive BB's with 22mm diameter axles have superior strength and
stiffness compared to Octalink BB's (also 22mm axles), which in turn
were already an improvement over square-taper BB axles (17mm diameter
axles). In our testing, ISIS-Drive BB's are typically at least
20~30% stronger and stiffer than Octalink, for comparable BB's (i.e.
we weren't using M12 DH ISIS-Drive BB's). Strength and stiffness of
ISIS-Drive set the bar high in those categories. Going to the 24mm
diameter axle used in integrated-BB's offers a marginal improvement,
only a 9% diameter increase. In comparison, the 22mm axle is already
29% larger diameter than the old benchmark 17mm axle.

Currently, FSA ISIS-Drive BB bearing life is acceptable, although in
the past, many ISIS-Drive BB's suffered from short bearing life. The
same oversize axle that is great for strength and stiffness presented
engineering and manufacturing challenges to fit bearings with a high
enough load capacity inside the BB shell. (High-end Octalink BB's had
similar problems.) The difficulty of engineering ISIS bearings can be
evidenced by the fact that one of the 3 members of the ISIS-Drive
Committee never produced an ISIS-Drive BB, while another member was
the first to follow with an external bearing BB.

FSA has used it's bearing know-how to develop long-lasting ISIS-Drive
bearing BB's. Last year, CSC was on ISIS-Drive with good results
(ridden to 3 stage wins in the Tour de France)! We have taken the
feedback from CSC and have continued to improve our ISIS-Drive BB's by
introducing high-end quadruple bearing versions with improved sealing,
under the designation "MegaQuad".

Great research, congratulations. You've clearly discredited the riders
who actually bought one, actually trashed it, actually replaced it after
failure with a more durable design.

quadruple. oversize, ceramic, seal, whatever. My daily bike's crank
bearing runs fine on its fourth rebuild since 1972. It was used when I
bought it. See you in about 35 years = we'll compare bearing wear.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

On Aug 22, 9:11 am, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 11:45 am, Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>
> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
> > companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
> > some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
> > Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
> > pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
> > ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
> > get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
> > underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
> for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
> buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
> Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
> expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
> shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Let me clarify what I want exactly :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ceramic BB (ISIS) + a lightweight ISIS Crankset

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I have now is an old shimano 9 speed dura ace (i bought it second
hand) with octalink.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wanted to know the best product combo to go for, and cheapest
option. I want to stay away from FSA but I'm not really sure why, and
why other folks don't like them either. Any particular reason?
Stronglight has a good reputation and that token BB looks sweeeet! The
cassette also has CT2 ceramic teflon coating which must be cool to run
with a titanium chain to minimize chainring wear. I'm not sure though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

FSA on the other hand is popular in the pro peleton.. Give me a few
reasons to hate them and save my pockets.

Quoted message said:

Their products are flashy but not durable, at least based my
experience with a broken wheel, BB and crank (and the experience of
others on this NG). So, it sounds like you do not want ISIS but
rather want Octalink -- which is a slightly more durable version of
the oversized spline drive system. You can get any old Octalink v1 BB
you like, but again, I would not waste my time with Ti due to the
expense -- unless you find a BB with replaceable bearings. It's the
bearings that fail because they are too small. I think RaceFace makes
model with replaceable bearings, but I am not sure. -- Jay Beattie..- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

I got this from FSA's website.

ISIS-Drive vs. Octalink

ISIS-Drive BB's with 22mm diameter axles have superior strength and
stiffness compared to Octalink BB's (also 22mm axles), which in turn
were already an improvement over square-taper BB axles (17mm diameter
axles).

What poppycock. This implies that square taper was somehow weak and
flexy..both of which is not true. Larger spindle outside diameter is
only larger, not better. Both resulted in small bearings, that
resulted is toasted BBs..enter the outboard bearing crank..a 'fix' for
ISIS and Octalink..NOT square taper. Octalink was meant to be market-
ed against square taper, ISIS vs Octalink...once again, enter outboard
bearings...Next step is this ceramic BS...for a 60-100 rpm system,
needs ceramic?

In our testing, ISIS-Drive BB's are typically at least

Quoted message said:

20~30% stronger and stiffer than Octalink, for comparable BB's (i.e.
we weren't using M12 DH ISIS-Drive BB's). Strength and stiffness of
ISIS-Drive set the bar high in those categories. Going to the 24mm
diameter axle used in integrated-BB's offers a marginal improvement,
only a 9% diameter increase. In comparison, the 22mm axle is already
29% larger diameter than the old benchmark 17mm axle.

Currently, FSA ISIS-Drive BB bearing life is acceptable, although in
the past, many ISIS-Drive BB's suffered from short bearing life. The
same oversize axle that is great for strength and stiffness presented
engineering and manufacturing challenges to fit bearings with a high
enough load capacity inside the BB shell. (High-end Octalink BB's had
similar problems.) The difficulty of engineering ISIS bearings can be
evidenced by the fact that one of the 3 members of the ISIS-Drive
Committee never produced an ISIS-Drive BB, while another member was
the first to follow with an external bearing BB.

FSA has used it's bearing know-how to develop long-lasting ISIS-Drive
bearing BB's. Last year, CSC was on ISIS-Drive with good results
(ridden to 3 stage wins in the Tour de France)! We have taken the
feedback from CSC and have continued to improve our ISIS-Drive BB's by
introducing high-end quadruple bearing versions with improved sealing,
under the designation "MegaQuad".

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

On Aug 22, 12:22 am, bicycle_disciple <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Both are ISIS BB's. ISIS designs have come a long way, now most
companies are switching to the outboard bearing design to take care of
some of the old problems with ISIS...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know FSA's MegaExo has outboard ceramic bearings (??)..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was doing a side by side comparison of Token's Ti ISIS drive BB with
Tiramic Bearings(http://www.tokenproducts.com/05htm/products.php?
pc1id=46) and MegaEXO Ceramic BB..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the end both look sweet, but the Token BB is cheaper. Thought I'd
ask someone here before making a decision. Technically, if you were to
get either one of these, what would you choose and what would be the
underlying reasons?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do Token BB's have outboard bearing design as well?

Quoted message said:

Does not compute. You either need ISIS or you need external bearings
for a two-piece crank. What kind of crank do you have? If you are
buying a crank and BB, go with two-piece and avoid ISIS/Octalink.
Avoid FSA. If you are stuck with ISIS, buy a durable and less
expensive non-Ti BB because you will have to buy a lot of them and you
shouldn't waste Ti. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Let me clarify what I want exactly :

Ceramic BB (ISIS) + a lightweight ISIS Crankset

What I have now is an old shimano 9 speed dura ace (i bought it second
hand) with octalink.

I wanted to know the best product combo to go for, and cheapest
option. I want to stay away from FSA but I'm not really sure why, and
why other folks don't like them either. Any particular reason?
Stronglight has a good reputation and that token BB looks sweeeet! The
cassette also has CT2 ceramic teflon coating which must be cool to run
with a titanium chain to minimize chainring wear. I'm not sure though.

FSA on the other hand is popular in the pro peleton

PelOton...and with a van full of spares and a legion of
mechanics..they 'can' be popular. They are acquired by team
management, the rider rides what he is given. As long as it doesn't
strand him and is light, he's OK with it.

... Give me a few

Quoted message said:

reasons to hate them and save my pockets.

B.D