Tire rot

Just A User said:

Can someone point me in the direction of a photo of the damage that
might occur from storing a bike with its tires on a cold concrete floor.

Don't think it exists - no such damage. If, though, you add a nearby
deep freeze compressor (or other ozone source), I'm sure there are lots
of examples. Heat is bad for tires as well, at least in the looong term.

Mark J.

Just A User said:

Can someone point me in the direction of a photo of the damage that
might occur from storing a bike with its tires on a cold concrete floor.

No damage if you top them up periodically.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Just A User said:

Can someone point me in the direction of a photo of the damage that
might occur from storing a bike with its tires on a cold concrete floor.

depends on where you live. i live in colorado, and if you leave tubes or
tires out for long periods (like over a year) without using them, they
dry out and crack. other than that, i don't know that i'd worry about it.

becca

Hang the bike, lift tires off the floor. Opinion here is Galiliean:
bikes tires flatten if left in one position. Auto tires do it, people
do it, rocks do it, wine and beer do it, glass does it-glass is a
fluid.
Bike tires are unsecured in the carcass compared to auto tires.
Concrete is very basic, maybe this isnot good for rubber.

Dear Tom Keats:

On Mar 11, 2:15 am, [email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote:
...

Quoted message said:

N.B:  Rubber doesn't "rot" as in the biological sense
of the word.  Rather, it gradually but inexorably
outgasses its more volatile chemical components,
causing the rubber structure to shrink, crack, and
eventually crumble.  Ozone and ultraviolet light are
reputed to hasten the process.  I think the latter
factor (UV light) is the greater concern.

There are chambers that age rubber at an accelerated rate. They do
not bathe the rubber sample in UV, but they do bathe them in ozone.
If you irradiate rubber with UV, in an atmosphere without oxygen, you
do not get anything close to the degradation you describe above.

Just keep in mind that visible light (purple to UV), NOx (from
automobile emissions), and VOCs (even methane) make ozone. So it is
"natural" to attribute the damage to "the light". It just is not
strictly correct.

David A. Smith

doowwwwwwwwwwwwnwind
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/aq/sectors/conus.php

say whattabout RADON?

datakoll said:

doowwwwwwwwwwwwnwind

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/aq/sectors/conus.php

Quoted message said:

say whattabout RADON?

It is a noble gas, so is unlikely to chemically affect tubber. Its
decay products are a different story. Still, without oxygen...

David A. Smith

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:17:22 -0700 (PDT), datakoll

Quoted message said:

bikes tires flatten if left in one position. Auto tires do it, people
do it, rocks do it, wine and beer do it, glass does it-glass is a
fluid.

Dear Gene,

Actually, it's a well-refuted myth that glass windows flow and sag
under gravity:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/850d41637743b6c1

Some old glass windows do indeed look as if they have sagged, but they
looked that way the day they were set in the frame.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I remember my old grade 8 teacher telling us that glass is a very very
slow liquid- but then I discovered he was an idiot as almost all the
incredulous nonsense he taught was just that. well mr sharp; turned
out you weren't so sharp at all...sincerely, former student

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:15:22 -0800, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)
wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I /have/ to store my main bike right beside the furnace.
But I wear my tires out just from daily use before the
furnace-motor ozone can kill 'em. But if I just permanently
left my bike out in a sunny spot in the back yard for a
year or two, (perish the thought) the tires would die long
before their time. If the bike wasn't stolen first.

As an aside thought, I also don't believe storing a bike
within a pyramid would prolong the the life of the tires ;-)
Now that I've said that, chances are Carl Fogel will try it.

Dear Tom,

Well . . .

These highwheeler tires from around 1890 are past their prime:

http://www.hochrad.info/hochradseite/hochradteile/hochrad%20teile%20reifen.htm

But tire manufacturers have improved things considerably since the
1870s when rubber tires first appeared.

You'd have to store modern tires under a pyramid for years before they
reached their expected lifespan in sunlight.

The tires of cars parked on streets survive years of sunlight.

So do the tires of bicycles left outside--think of kids' bikes and
commuter bicycles.

Sunlight and ozone do indeed damage rubber, but not usually at the
rates suggested by our fevered imaginations, which lead people to
store tires in plastic bags in freezers.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

datakoll said:

bikes tires flatten if left in one position. Auto tires do it, people
do it, rocks do it, wine and beer do it, glass does it-glass is a
fluid.

Dear Gene,

Actually, it's a well-refuted myth that glass windows flow and sag
under gravity:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/850d41637743b6c1

Some old glass windows do indeed look as if they have sagged, but they
looked that way the day they were set in the frame.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:17:22 -0700 (PDT), datakoll

Quoted message said:

bikes tires flatten if left in one position. Auto tires do it, people
do it, rocks do it, wine and beer do it, glass does it-glass is a
fluid.

Dear Gene,

Actually, it's a well-refuted myth that glass windows flow and sag
under gravity:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/850d41637743b6c1

Some old glass windows do indeed look as if they have sagged, but they
looked that way the day they were set in the frame.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Veeeaaaaaaalllllll Carl, why is the window's wide end on the bottom?
because the wide end religiously supports the narrow top or did the
masons, as experienced a crew as you'd not wanna meet, misunderstand
the flow of water?

anyway, Herpo, cycle rubber isnot autpo rubber and I have seen first
hand sunlight not Ozone degraded Conti TT. That rubber looked like uh
sundegraded rubber. You live in the desert....

In article
<[email hidden]>,

datakoll said:

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:17:22 -0700 (PDT), datakoll

Quoted message said:

bikes tires flatten if left in one position. Auto tires do it, people
do it, rocks do it, wine and beer do it, glass does it-glass is a
fluid.

Dear Gene,

Actually, it's a well-refuted myth that glass windows flow and sag
under gravity:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/850d41637743b6c1

Some old glass windows do indeed look as if they have sagged, but they
looked that way the day they were set in the frame.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Veeeaaaaaaalllllll Carl, why is the window's wide end on the bottom?
because the wide end religiously supports the narrow top or did the
masons, as experienced a crew as you'd not wanna meet, misunderstand
the flow of water?

Same reason the tire's label always goes beside the tire valve:
tradition combined with some kernel of practicality.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

UNNNGH,

WHEN THE Cathedral at Chartes was restored, rumor was or is,
measurments made on stained glass set in uhuhuh 1237? showed glass was
wider at bottom than at top, that measurments conformed to equations
for glass flow.
Glass is typed as a solid liquid thru crystalized molecular structure.

That is now incorrect? My day is ruined.

Older tires set out in Florida's sun degrade without significant ozone
not so much newer compounds.

G. Daniels

"datakoll" wrote: (clip)Glass is typed as a solid liquid thru crystalized
molecular structure. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does that mean they can be recycled into liquid crystal displays in
calculators? ;-)

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:30:14 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

datakoll said:

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:17:22 -0700 (PDT), datakoll

<[email hidden]> wrote:
>bikes tires flatten if left in one position. Auto tires do it, people
>do it, rocks do it, wine and beer do it, glass does it-glass is a
>fluid.

Dear Gene,

Actually, it's a well-refuted myth that glass windows flow and sag
under gravity:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/850d41637743b6c1

Some old glass windows do indeed look as if they have sagged, but they
looked that way the day they were set in the frame.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Veeeaaaaaaalllllll Carl, why is the window's wide end on the bottom?
because the wide end religiously supports the narrow top or did the
masons, as experienced a crew as you'd not wanna meet, misunderstand
the flow of water?

Same reason the tire's label always goes beside the tire valve:
tradition combined with some kernel of practicality.

Dear Ryan,

And like labels on tires, it turns out that some ancient windows had
the thicker end at the side or at the top, and the waviness sometimes
goes sideways.

A few links . . .

A quick summary of the legend at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass#Behavior_of_antique_glass

Nope, says Dow-Corning, a company that knows a bit about glass:
http://www.cmog.org/index.asp?pageId=745

A 1200-line hodge-podge of discussion that ends up pointing out that
the slightest flowing of glass would be grossly obvious in old
telescope lenses, but is never seen:
http://tafkac.org/science/glass.flow/glass_flow_the_thread.html

More fun at an urban legend site:

http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C01/C01Links/www.ualberta.ca/~bderksen/florin.html#antique

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:17:22 -0700 (PDT), datakoll

Quoted message said:

bikes tires flatten if left in one position. Auto tires do it, people
do it, rocks do it, wine and beer do it, glass does it-glass is a
fluid.

Actually, it's a well-refuted myth that glass windows flow and sag
under gravity:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/850d41637743b6c1

Some old glass windows do indeed look as if they have sagged, but they
looked that way the day they were set in the frame.

I remember my old grade 8 teacher telling us that glass is a very very
slow liquid- but then I discovered he was an idiot as almost all the
incredulous nonsense he taught was just that. well mr sharp; turned
out you weren't so sharp at all...sincerely, former student

Flow rate is proportional to, among other things, the curvature
of the surface. If glass flowed, the sharp corner of a glass
shard should dull rapidly. Such is not the case. Glass knives
hundreds of years old have their edge.

--
Michael Press

In article
<[email hidden]>,

datakoll said:

UNNNGH,

WHEN THE Cathedral at Chartes was restored, rumor was or is,
measurments made on stained glass set in uhuhuh 1237? showed glass was
wider at bottom than at top, that measurments conformed to equations
for glass flow.
Glass is typed as a solid liquid thru crystalized molecular structure.

That is now incorrect? My day is ruined.

Older tires set out in Florida's sun degrade without significant ozone
not so much newer compounds.

Look up glass transition temperature.
We all had this discussion not too long ago.

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

The tires of cars parked on streets survive years of sunlight.

The rubber is made with a sacrificial compound.
The sacrificial compound reacts more rapidly with
ozone and forms a powder layer on the tire.
If you want to protect the tire, leave it on there
and do not attack your tires with costly
products that only make it look shiny and
leaves black goo on any part of your person
that touches it.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

Automobile tires have been made with sacrificial compounds
for years. Michelin wants you to think that only they
do it.

Perhaps the correct conclusion is that they've just started, as
far as bikes are concerned.

John