Time to pay?

i trust if this charge were introduced, that there would be similar fees incurred by people using
public parks etc. in cities.

[email hidden] (Michael S) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Christ, will you just [censored]? Haven't you realised that you're about as welcome as a hatful of
[censored]? At first your posts were mildly amusing, but then they got a bit tedious... then you
span off on racist tangents, tried to dig your way out of various holes, and, quite frankly, I
started feeling embarrassed for you.

Didn't you think of disappearing back up your own [censored] when it got to the stage where you resorted
to posts such as 'You're thick!'? Let's hope that get's used on the website of your quotes over at
www.trochos.supanet.com/sayings.htm

Cheerio, dipshit! See you on the hills (don't worry, I'll have my hill-walking day-license
with me)!

I think Angus has got a point. They should build mass turnstiles at the start of public path ways,
or maybe just fence off entire mountains. They could build viewing galleries for people who just
like watching people walk up hills. Alternatively, they could put a tax on flap jacks.

Angus, you've made several good points. Mostly that you are in fact a very stupid human being. Areas
of natural beauty are paid for and maintained by all of us through the normal income tax system.
Hill walking is available to all and therefore should be paid for by all. Simple as that.

Well there you go jumping to conclusions. Nobody said I objected to paying for my recreational
interests. You assumed it.

My reference to you being in a minority was not over this debate per se, but rather in reference to
the fact that you seem to argue with the whole population. It would seem that you are more
interested in the argument than, necessarily, benefiting the environment or the community. It's an
interesting behaviour, and given the number of threads where you seem to be the one at odds with
everyone else, does suggest a problem of some kind.

Roots of Blood, Anti-hunt both good protest groups that I'm sure give you immense satisfaction. Just
take care that you don't overstep the mark and infringe other peoples liberties who would fight to
defend your right to speak.

I fear I have spent enough of my precious time on you now. I am going to do something now rather
than waste more time on what is clearly a futile exercise.

Goodbye and good luck in whatever you choose to rant against next - for there will doubtless be
something - including getting the last word here no doubt.

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"AMacmil304" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040302030302.09510.00000756@mb-
m12.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Time to pay? From: "Ron Barker" [email hidden] Date: 01/03/04 15:03 GMT
Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

You seem to make a lot of friends !???

Has it ever occurred to you that,

Quoted message said:

whilst you are entitled to your views (as are we all) you appear to be in

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very small minority. This means that your views are probably not

entitled

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Quoted message said:

to be given much weight. Certainly not as much as your ego would demand. If you feel you ever
need any psychological help I can probably point you

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the right direction. You need to feel the need first though.

This is a typical and rather worn out response from those who can't cope

with

Quoted message said:

new ideas especially when there is a possibility that it could cost them a

bit

Quoted message said:

of money :-)

Quoted message said:

I have now done my bit to try and help you and will go away again and concentrate on my walking
interests.

So why shouldn't you pay for those recreational interests as others have

to do?

Quoted message said:

Angus Macmillan Roots-of-Blood Campaign www.roots-of-blood.org.uk www.killhunting.org.uk

" First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they lose".
Mahatma Gandhi.

A fair question but I think it is difficult to compare a public park in a city with somewhere like
the Lake District. We all pay, through Council Tax, for the upkeep of our local amenities. I don't
know where you live but if 2000 people from Lancashire, Greater Manchester and Yorkshire descended
on your local park, or more sensibly the hinterland of your town, then I suspect a different
solution may be required when they started to wear out the paths and grassy areas.

I have been going to the Lake District for nearly 40 years. Wainwright had not completed all of his
books, the M6 did not exist and the Lake District was a quiet place to go. I, along with many like
me, can do little (and would not wish) to deter anyone from enjoying what I have enjoyed over the
years. So, as numbers continue to increase, there must be a solution found to dealing with the
unquestionable damage done to the hillsides. Some argue that they are not involved because they do
not use the well worn paths. Well neither did I in the 70s but I have contributed to them becoming
so now. We are all in this who go walking in areas under pressure and we must all play, and pay, our
part in protecting them.

--

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"johnclezy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i trust if this charge were introduced, that there would be similar fees incurred by people using
public parks etc. in cities.

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Ron Barker" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

I have been going to the Lake District for nearly 40 years. Wainwright had not completed all of
his books, the M6 did not exist and the Lake District was a quiet place to go.

Failing memory? Rose tinted specs?

The Outlying Fells was not published until 1974 and Wainwright continued with other projects almost
till he died but Book Seven was published in 1966 and to me that is almost 40 years ago.

The first section of the M6 (the Preston Bypass) opened in 1958 and in 1964 (which is 40 years
ago) most of the M6 from Junction 13 (Stafford South) to Carnforth (what is now junctioon 35A) was
open, the missing section (under construction) being the 12 miles North from the end of the
Preston Bypass.

And while the LD might be marginally more crowded with walkers than it was 40 years ago it wasn't
exactly quiet when I first visited in Summer 50 years ago and ISTR having great difficulty getting a
drink in the bar of the Wastwater Hotel one weekend during the winter of 1962/63 due to the crush.
(And it wasn't even good weather). Even today (if you are lucky) if you avoid the few popular hills
you can walk all day and hardly meet a soul. On a bad weather summer day you are probably likely to
meet less walkers on the popular hills than you would have 40 years ago.

There are indeed as lot more serious walkers to be found on the town pavements but they rarely (if
ever) venture onto the fells.

--

Roger

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Time to pay?
From: [email hidden] (johnclezy)
Date: 02/03/04 12:28 GMT Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

i trust if this charge were introduced, that there would be similar fees incurred by people using
public parks etc. in cities.

I wouldn't think so. Currently public places are maintained by local authoriies.

My suggestion stems from the amazing oversight - or perhaps undersight - that there is no provision
within the right to roam legislation to clear up the mess left by a minority of walkers in
inaccessable places. Some form of payment by all those who use the countryside for walking would go
some way towards financing this need.

An alternative could be raise taxes but there are so many more important things such as hospitals
and education that needs money, I didn't think it unreasonable to suggest that recreation should be
paid for by the participants. It is in most sports and pastimes. An example of this is your local
swimming bath. Overall it is financed by local government but one still has to make a contribution.
And I don't think £100 a year is over the top - in fact I'd say it was very reasonable.

Angus Macmillan Roots-of-Blood Campaign www.roots-of-blood.org.uk www.killhunting.org.uk

" First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they lose".
Mahatma Gandhi.

Your history will be far more accurate than mine and I thank you for the reminders. Rose tinted
spectacles may be true to a point. However, the completion of the M6 and the advent of more and more
reliable cars has put far more pressure on over a greater part of the year. Day trips from the North
East were certainly possible in the late 60s but you wouldn't get many day trippers from Manchester
or Leeds. Not so many years ago the car parks would struggle to fill in winter periods. Not so any
more. If you're not at Patterdale before 10a.m. the car park opposite the Patterdale Hotel will be
full and the one near the toilet block is newer and enlarged and full also. I have parked there this
last two weekends and can vouch for this.

So you're right the moves were started back in the 50s/early 60s but the pressures have built
steadily since then right across the year.
--

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"Roger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The message <[email hidden]> from "Ron Barker"
<[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

I have been going to the Lake District for nearly 40 years. Wainwright

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not completed all of his books, the M6 did not exist and the Lake

District

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was a quiet place to go.

Failing memory? Rose tinted specs?

The Outlying Fells was not published until 1974 and Wainwright continued with other projects
almost till he died but Book Seven was published in 1966 and to me that is almost 40 years ago.

The first section of the M6 (the Preston Bypass) opened in 1958 and in 1964 (which is 40 years
ago) most of the M6 from Junction 13 (Stafford South) to Carnforth (what is now junctioon 35A) was
open, the missing section (under construction) being the 12 miles North from the end of the
Preston Bypass.

And while the LD might be marginally more crowded with walkers than it was 40 years ago it wasn't
exactly quiet when I first visited in Summer 50 years ago and ISTR having great difficulty getting
a drink in the bar of the Wastwater Hotel one weekend during the winter of 1962/63 due to the
crush. (And it wasn't even good weather). Even today (if you are lucky) if you avoid the few
popular hills you can walk all day and hardly meet a soul. On a bad weather summer day you are
probably likely to meet less walkers on the popular hills than you would have 40 years ago.

There are indeed as lot more serious walkers to be found on the town pavements but they rarely (if
ever) venture onto the fells.

--

Roger

"AMacmil304" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

No problem at all. I'll explain. I specifically target the newsgroups that

I

Quoted message said:

know or think will oppose me. The reason for this is that I have to then

"fight

Quoted message said:

off" the arguments against me. It is immensely useful in learning all the angles and counter
arguments and gives me the ability to seize on weak

points

Quoted message said:

that I can then exploit. You don't learn from those who agree with you

:-)

Might I suggest you try uk.rec.cycling. A fair number of people there genuinely seem to love that
kind of thing and will argue with you forever.

Well said my friend - from a north Briton (English it must be said) with a liking for the
fringe areas.

--

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"W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, AMacmil304 <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Gaelic here is virtually dead - and should be buried

So you want to sacrifice History and culture eh?

Take your campaign and coagulate somewhere.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I merely think that unpronouncable names are a lifelong setback for children and most often arise
out of some stupid nationalistic ideals of their parents.

Too bloody right, because some morons cannot cope with "Fiona", we should all have numbers.
Preferably tattooed on our foreheads.
--
Work Unit 121 882 318

Quoted message said:

Not to non-Gaelic speakers they don't and since the language here is English that counts for
most of us.

I think you should pay to name your child - by the syllable, with a surcharge for every letter that
is used than does not follow a phonetic rule. Hence a discount for Welsh families.

"Richard" Webb

Quoted message said:

It's much clearer that those who say they care for the countryside don't want to contribute
towards its increaseing upkeep due to access for all.

Sticking my landowner cap on for a minute....

You may be an idiot, a fashist and an *rse of the lowest order, but this time you are right - so we
will pass on our access costs as of today.

We have always had open access, and I dont remember paying anything towards it. This cost of £0.00
will be passed on to the canoeists, walkers and birdwatchers as of today.

However I regret that we will not be paying refunds to the people for the large sums in taxes that
they have paid towards agricultural subsidies and environmetal protection.

Yes - folk are paying already!!! I for one dont want a higher health bill because straight arm 30's
throwbacks want us walled up in cities instead of being healthy. (The real fashists actually
encouraged exercise, allbeit in a controlled totalitarian fashion) Much rather the money went to
keeping folk on the land.

We stopped walking in 2001, the economic damage was vast.

Richard Webb

Quoted message said:

So why shouldn't you pay for those recreational interests as others have to do?

I do already... Besides I'd rather spend your extra tax on helping the local hunt.

Richard Webb

Seriously.... It is possible to raise money from a hill trip, and loads of folk do.

remember 2001, we went on "strike". Remove the tourist from the mountain range and bye bye a lot of
folks living. We get hungry up there, we need to park our cars, we need somewhere to stay. All
income streams for those wishing to diversify. No state interference required, no licencing
bureaucracy taking in money ineffiecntly and handing it to the same old leeches that dont need it.
(I am looking at you Grosvenor!)

The Lakes, especially, does not maintain itself - as a result its main landowner, the NT has become
very good at extracting money from recreationalists, too good for comfort :-)

We have no costs incurred by access, but if we did, it would be through popularity and heavy use.
Parking charges would soon appear and several businesses would appear in the village to service the
hordes. Happily we get little use and therefore are happy to pass on the access charge of £0.00 to
all our visitors.

I hope this gets the topic on to sensible grounds, and away from merely taking the p*ss out of a
minor irritant.

Drabblists would love to have a tourist free countryside to themselves, but are they prepared to pay
for the economic damage they cause by excluding the people from their country. 2001 was a tragedy,
but very educational.

Richard Webb

Quoted message said:

Or perhaps get compensation for being saddled with unpronouncable names :-)

Err I said Welsh!! - Phonetic and easy to pronounce, providing you can be bothered.

Richard Webb

"AMacmil304" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Time to pay? From: [email hidden] (Richard Webb) Date: 03/03/04 11:53 GMT
Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It's much clearer that those who say they care for the countryside

don't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

want

Quoted message said:

to contribute towards its increaseing upkeep due to access for all.

Sticking my landowner cap on for a minute....

You may be an idiot, a fashist and an *rse of the lowest order, but this time you are right - so
we will pass on our access costs as of today.

We have always had open access, and I dont remember paying anything towards it. This cost of
£0.00 will be passed on to the canoeists, walkers and birdwatchers as of today.

So you don't do any maintenance to your land and clear up any litter that

is

Quoted message said:

left? You just ignore it.

Quoted message said:

However I regret that we will not be paying refunds to the people for the large sums in taxes
that they have paid towards agricultural subsidies and environmetal protection.

No-one's asking you to.

Quoted message said:

Yes - folk are paying already!!! I for one dont want a higher health bill because straight arm
30's throwbacks want us walled up in cities instead of being healthy.

That's nonsense. There's nobody suggesting that people should be walled up

in

Quoted message said:

cities. I am merely suggesting that walkers should contribute a small

amount to

Quoted message said:

the maintenance if they care about it as much as they say they do. If maintenance is paid out of
general taxation something like hospitals will

ahve

Quoted message said:

to suffer of taxes will have to increase. It's not rocket science :-)

(The real fashists actually encouraged

Quoted message said:

exercise, allbeit in a controlled totalitarian fashion) Much rather the money went to keeping
folk on the land.

What money? You've just said you don't spend any :-)

Quoted message said:

We stopped walking in 2001, the economic damage was vast.

Please explain.

Christ, it's like a broken record.

KRO