Threshold power work in Jan. Are we the smart ones??

It'll definitely seem so in March, but we may not know the real answer until June or July.

Comments like those of your teammates are why one well-known coach has opined (only somewhat tongue-in-cheek) that there is an inverse relationship between one's physical abilities and one's intellectual abilities. 😉

I am going to keep my mouth shut until I pull couple of wins. :p I don't want to offend anyone. 🙂

acoggan said:

Comments like those of your teammates are why one well-known coach has opined (only somewhat tongue-in-cheek) that there is an inverse relationship between one's physical abilities and one's intellectual abilities. 😉

my best year was characterised by doing a couple of mock 10 mile TT's on the turbo every week, all winter, and my worst featured pretty much all base miles until april.

consequently i'm in no doubt that higher intensity work thoughout the winter is smart. there's a bit too much tradition in cycling and that includes the mindset of taking it softly in winter.

if the form arrives to early then it cant be that hard to ease of and rebuild - better early than late or never!

- Threshold power for one, may mean something else, for one other. For some, it is MP30, for others it is MP40 or MP60, for others it may be MP90 or even MP120.

- Doing Threshold workouts, doesn't necessary mean developping it. It could simply be maintaining it.

- To me, Coggan's Z4 is closely related to Z3 anyway. IOW, even if FTP development begins in March, or April, a minimal amount of time should be spent maintaining Z4 work in January, just to keep the top edge of Z3. I don't see the point in working one, without working on the other, vice-versa.

robkit said:

if the form arrives to early then it cant be that hard to ease of and rebuild - better early than late or never!

That's exactly what I'm planning on (ie, hoping :o ). I guess the downside is the additional torture of having done intensity all winter and having to back off later, instead of just taking a little more time off before starting.

BlueJersey said:

Are we really the smart ones who is working on threshold power now? I spoke to couple of people (including a cat2 in my team) and they generally are not thrill about doing threshold power now. I am not sure they may not have enough base miles to begin with. For someone who has over 1.2k miles already by the end of Dec, doing threshold power work makes a lot of sense. Not to mention you have the damn power meter to tell you that you are riding longer, using less effort, and putting out the same FT power as of last year.

They may not know it, but if they are training zone 2-4, they are probably improving ft (provided they are doing enough volume).

You are right. I think they are scare to go hard around this time due to the conventional wisdom (folk lore) about intensity work around this time I have been commuting and riding everyday since 10/26. My daily average IF is around .6. After reading the Sweet Spot Training article, couple of days later, I went out and did 3x20 threshold intervals. Not 2 but 3x20. I haven't done that many 20 minutes intervals in one session, ever. 😄 Power output was about 10w less than my May 20 minutes MP. Average HR was about 170. Not just that, one day later, I did another threshold power trainer session, 3x10. 10w higher than my last May 20 minutes MP with an even lower average HR. I like how my off season training is going. Is sad that some people don't reflect every year and ask why they haven't been improving.

whoawhoa said:

They may not know it, but if they are training zone 2-4, they are probably improving ft (provided they are doing enough volume).

BlueJersey said:

You are right. I think they are scare to go hard around this time due to the conventional wisdom (folk lore) about intensity work around this time I have been commuting and riding everyday since 10/26. My daily average IF is around .6. After reading the Sweet Spot Training article, couple of days later, I went out and did 3x20 threshold intervals. Not 2 but 3x20. I haven't done that many 20 minutes intervals in one session, ever. 😄 Power output was about 10w less than my May 20 minutes MP. Average HR was about 170. Not just that, one day later, I did another threshold power trainer session, 3x10. 10w higher than my last May 20 minutes MP with an even lower average HR. I like how my off season training is going. Is sad that some people don't reflect every year and ask why they haven't been improving.

I know a few riders who train like the riders you know (cat 2s, and one semipro mountain biker) and they really don't seem to improve much over the months that they don't race. It's great for me, since I anticipate being able to out-ride them in many ways by next spring.🙂

how long is your season? That may help as too much very early can be burn out later yet, on the other hand my coach has me building now thru spring----------

Burn out? Hmmm......you know, I don't think I race enough throughout the season at all. I seriously don't believe in "burn out" any more. Just because pros can feel burn out it does not mean we amarturers would too.

craigm said:

how long is your season? That may help as too much very early can be burn out later yet, on the other hand my coach has me building now thru spring----------

BlueJersey said:

Burn out? Hmmm......you know, I don't think I race enough throughout the season at all. I seriously don't believe in "burn out" any more. Just because pros can feel burn out it does not mean we amarturers would too.

Your cat 2 buddies might do 100+ races a year. So they are probably doing a lot more intensity than you will. If they race 20 times between February 1 and May 1 and train hard they will get lots of intensity training in time to be ready for the events that probably matter most to them. It's possible that they have learned about the importance of a slow, gradual build to a major peak or two. Or, you're right and they're just doing what they've always done and probably getting beat by the same guys every year.

WarrenG said:

Your cat 2 buddies might do 100+ races a year. So they are probably doing a lot more intensity than you will. If they race 20 times between February 1 and May 1 and train hard they will get lots of intensity training in time to be ready for the events that probably matter most to them.

That's a good illustration of the point that just because someone who knows what they're doing does something, doesn't mean everyone else should imitate it.

There all kinds of cat2 riders, you know. 😉

WarrenG said:

Your cat 2 buddies might do 100+ races a year. So they are probably doing a lot more intensity than you will. If they race 20 times between February 1 and May 1 and train hard they will get lots of intensity training in time to be ready for the events that probably matter most to them. It's possible that they have learned about the importance of a slow, gradual build to a major peak or two. Or, you're right and they're just doing what they've always done and probably getting beat by the same guys every year.

acoggan said:

Comments like those of your teammates are why one well-known coach has opined (only somewhat tongue-in-cheek) that there is an inverse relationship between one's physical abilities and one's intellectual abilities. 😉

Don't think I'm not watching you Coggan! 🙄

BlueJersey said:

There all kinds of cat2 riders, you know. 😉

Yes. They must have done at least a few things right to get there. Different riders, different abilities, different priorities, different methods... There can be more than one path to the destination.

WarrenG said:

There can be more than one path to the destination.

FWIW, I got there by going straight from being a junior to racing cat. 2 - how about you?

What I meant was I don't have the slightest idea how he got there. Wins???? Hmmm....not sure. How many recently or in the past? Not sure. He drills to us so much on general beliefs without taking into the consideration of other rider's priorities, ambitions, physical type and build, and goals. One thing you learn from training with a power meter is that all training approach has to be accountable. Just because something sounds right it does not mean it is correct. He insists that I need to work on my racing skills other than my racing fitness. Racing tactics take priority over racing fitness. Since our guys are mostly cat4, racing tactics are pretty much not there or so little even a child can read out the race. I believe that if you are not strong enough to win a cat 4 without your team and team tactics, you will die racing in the 3. Working on sprinting for a climber build rider like myself is pointless. Am I going head to head with guys weight 50lb over my weight and can output over 12k watts for 7 sec???? 😄 Guys like us place high or win by launch an attack or got a break and to make the break stick till the end. This you need high FT.

WarrenG said:

Yes. They must have done at least a few things right to get there. Different riders, different abilities, different priorities, different methods... There can be more than one path to the destination.

BlueJersey said:

Working on sprinting for a climber build rider like myself is pointless. Am I going head to head with guys weight 50lb over my weight and can output over 12k watts for 7 sec???? 😄 Guys like us place high or win by launch an attack or got a break and to make the break stick till the end. This you need high FT.

Umm, beg to differ. >95% of the Cat 4 races I've done came down to a sprint, most of them from a bunch. It is precisely because of the general lack of tactics in my Cat 4 races that I'm working on my sprint. Unless you're a genetic freak (and you'd know this by now) you probably aren't going to ride away from everybody in the race. If you can get a break to stick, you still need to win the sprint from that small group.

Just because somebody isn't training with the latest gadgets and protocol like we are 😉 , doesn't mean there isn't plenty we can learn from them. You don't get courtesy upgrades to Cat 2, at least not around here.