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the new math

Started by Lanceandrew · · Last activity · 15 posts · 402 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
2 November 2004
Last activity
5 November 2004
Original author
Lanceandrew
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15
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  1. "scientific research suggests that during this month before the race [Marathon]
    no workout should cover more than about 10 miles".

    "Bottom line? Remember that it is your overall fitness which will determine
    your success at marathon racing, not the quantity of miles in your training log
    or even the number of long runs which you have completed."

    http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw_news_frameset.html?http://www.runners
    web.com/running/news/rw_news_20041030_PPO_MarathonMistakes.html

    i love this man. this "new math" fits right in with the boat i'm in. finally
    i've found a bold new thinker to support my notions which up until now i
    assumed were...well..."false"...and only my own. hope floats!

  2. [lanceandrew]
    << i love this man. >>

    Ah, you're gay, Lance?
    What man do you love?

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  3. << i love this man. this "new math" fits right in with the boat i'm in.
    finally
    i've found a bold new thinker to support my notions which up until now i
    assumed were...well..."false"...and only my own. hope floats! >>

    Yes, hope floats my boat,
    Too. But alas, hope only sails
    So long, before it's sunken...
    Pardonez me, my dark, cloudy pesimisim ~
    Not had my Dunkin donut
    Yet today. What's that? Yes M'mam!
    Will do. Back now
    To work.

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  4. <Pardonez me, my dark, cloudy pesimisim ~>

    **pessimism**

  5. [Jakob]
    <Pardonez me, my dark, cloudy pesimisim ~>

    **pessimism** >>

    Yes, Miss.
    Pissy, today, aren't we?

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  6. [email hidden] (Lanceandrew) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "scientific research suggests that during this month before the race
    [Marathon] no workout should cover more than about 10 miles".

    Maybe so, but what about in the months before
    that?:-)

    Quoted message said:

    i love this man. this "new math" fits right in with the boat i'm in. finally
    i've found a bold new thinker to support my notions which up until now i
    assumed were...well..."false"...and only my own. hope floats!

    Well, I suppose that if one digs deep enough into
    http://www.pponline.co.uk one will find something
    to support any notion one might have about training...

    Hope floats, pain is temporary, let the small boy
    within yourself take over from the big man and
    arrive at the finish as a winner!

    Anders

  7. Lanceandrew said:

    "scientific research suggests that during this month before the race


    [Marathon]

    Quoted message said:

    no workout should cover more than about 10 miles".

    "Bottom line? Remember that it is your overall fitness which will


    determine

    Quoted message said:

    your success at marathon racing, not the quantity of miles in your


    training log

    Quoted message said:

    or even the number of long runs which you have completed."


    http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw_news_frameset.html?http://www.runners

    Quoted message said:

    web.com/running/news/rw_news_20041030_PPO_MarathonMistakes.html

    i love this man. this "new math" fits right in with the boat i'm in.


    finally

    Quoted message said:

    i've found a bold new thinker to support my notions which up until


    now i

    Quoted message said:

    assumed were...well..."false"...and only my own. hope floats!

    Did you read the whole article? Sure, the 4 weeks before your marathon
    many marathon plans call for a taper. Many start at 3 weeks
    pre-marathon, but several use 4 weeks. The long runs and the total
    weekly mileage remains a critical part of marathon training. The
    article was in response to someone's marathon plan that did not result
    in a good performance for a few reasons. You've cut out most of the
    article that explains further.

    "this runner was moving along at goal marathon speed or faster every
    Saturday during the six-month period, for at least 12 miles on 'easy'
    weekends and for as many as 21 miles on 'long-run' Saturdays! Three
    weeks before the marathon itself, the runner in effect ran 80 percent
    of a full marathon (21 miles) at approximately goal pace."

    "Proper strategy: to promote better recovery while still enhancing the
    ability to run marathon-type distances, carry out a long run every two
    to three weeks (not every week), gradually increasing the duration of
    this effort to 22 miles, only 10 to 12 of which are covered at race
    pace; on alternate weeks, complete shorter-duration quality training.
    Complete the last long run at least four weeks prior to race day."
    -

    Phil M.

  8. "Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "Bottom line? Remember that it is your overall fitness which will


    determine

    Quoted message said:

    your success at marathon racing, not the quantity of miles in your


    training log

    Quoted message said:

    or even the number of long runs which you have completed."

    I agree, based on experience.

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw_news_frameset.html?http://www.runners
    web.com/running/news/rw_news_20041030_PPO_MarathonMistakes.html

    i love this man. this "new math" fits right in with the boat i'm in.


    finally

    Quoted message said:

    i've found a bold new thinker to support my notions which up until now i
    assumed were...well..."false"...and only my own. hope floats!

    It's all in the pacing...

  9. "Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "this runner was moving along at goal marathon speed or faster every
    Saturday during the six-month period, for at least 12 miles on 'easy'
    weekends and for as many as 21 miles on 'long-run' Saturdays! Three
    weeks before the marathon itself, the runner in effect ran 80 percent
    of a full marathon (21 miles) at approximately goal pace."

    Way too fast. I occasionally ran a 20 at goal pace, but I consider it a big
    mistake. Normally I average 1 to 2 minutes/mile slower than MP. (Once ran
    21.4 miles at 6:15 on a very hilly course the day after a hard 10k!)

    My meat was an untapered 10k at MP - 30 secs/mile (in my case, this was
    33:45 - 34:30).
    I considered this the most important run of the week. The 17-18 miler was
    just an easy run with some fartlecks thrown in.

    Quoted message said:

    "Proper strategy: to promote better recovery while still enhancing the
    ability to run marathon-type distances, carry out a long run every two
    to three weeks (not every week), gradually increasing the duration of
    this effort to 22 miles, only 10 to 12 of which are covered at race
    pace; on alternate weeks, complete shorter-duration quality training.
    Complete the last long run at least four weeks prior to race day."

    Even this was too hard for me to achieve best results. I very rarely
    approached race pace on my long runs, but I did a longish run (2:00 - 2:30)
    *every* week at a comfortable pace. It was very doable, and I looked
    forward to it.

    -- Dan

  10. << My meat was an untapered >>

    uncircjmstized?

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  11. "Brilliant One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    << My meat was an untapered >>

    uncircjmstized?

    As in seared over charcoal....

  12. Dan Stumpus said:

    "Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "this runner was moving along at goal marathon speed or faster


    every

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Saturday during the six-month period, for at least 12 miles on


    'easy'

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    weekends and for as many as 21 miles on 'long-run' Saturdays! Three
    weeks before the marathon itself, the runner in effect ran 80


    percent

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of a full marathon (21 miles) at approximately goal pace."

    Way too fast. I occasionally ran a 20 at goal pace, but I consider


    it a big

    Quoted message said:

    mistake. Normally I average 1 to 2 minutes/mile slower than MP.


    (Once ran

    Quoted message said:

    21.4 miles at 6:15 on a very hilly course the day after a hard 10k!)

    Exactly my point. The OP cut must of the pretinent info from the
    article. The quote above is the person's mistake that the author of the
    article was pointing out.

    Phil M.

  13. [Phil m the blank]<
    < The quote above is the person's mistake that the author of the
    article was pointing out.>

    A fine line,
    Pointing out the error of another's ways,
    With dew grace, without botching
    A gracefully run race.

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  14. Dan Stumpus said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Bottom line? Remember that it is your overall fitness which will>


    determineyour success at marathon racing, not the quantity of miles in your
    training log or even the number of long runs which you have completed."

    I agree, based on experience.

    But I'd still argue that 9 out of 10 times it's the MPW & LR's that are
    the best indicator of "overall fitness". The exception is going to be
    the "overtrained" individual. It's difficult to quantify overall
    fitness and easy to quantify MPW/LR. I'll bet you'll get much better
    marathon predictive values with a formula that asks specific training
    questions than a 10 page questionaire that seeks to determine O.F.
    without asking 3 hard questions:
    1. Average MPW over the last 3 months
    2. Length of long run
    3. recent race results.

    JJ

  15. One really needs an operational definition of "fitness".

    Fitness is measured in many cases by VO2max. Imperfect, but at least it is
    defined and measurable.

    "Jsquared" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Dan Stumpus said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Bottom line? Remember that it is your overall fitness which will>


    determineyour success at marathon racing, not the quantity of miles in
    your
    training log or even the number of long runs which you have completed."

    I agree, based on experience.

    But I'd still argue that 9 out of 10 times it's the MPW & LR's that are
    the best indicator of "overall fitness". The exception is going to be the
    "overtrained" individual. It's difficult to quantify overall fitness and
    easy to quantify MPW/LR. I'll bet you'll get much better marathon
    predictive values with a formula that asks specific training questions
    than a 10 page questionaire that seeks to determine O.F. without asking 3
    hard questions:
    1. Average MPW over the last 3 months
    2. Length of long run
    3. recent race results.

    JJ

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