System for eliminating deadspot

skicker said:

Saw this today, its supposed to eliminate the deadspot when pedalling a
bike.

http://tinyurl.com/rbdmb

Wonder what this would be like on a unicycle?

What begins as a bad idea on the bicycle will turn into a worse one on
the unicycle, as I'm sure the cranks are not designed to deal with
pressure applied in the backwards direction.

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Complete nonsense. Another example of I don't practise my archery so I
need a better bow.

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I suppose it may help the type of cyclist who just stomps down on the
top pedal, but that's not how you should be pedalling. I wouldn't
fancy trying to spin that setup at any sort of speed. I'm very
sceptical, but if anybody wants to buy me a set I'll give them a try
😉
I reckon it would feel very weird on a unicycle, with the foot speed
changing at the top of every stroke.

Rob

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Hmm. Whiplash! (Check the same thread in JC started by evil-nick)

I converted my BMX cranks into Rotor Cranks by doing dirt jump! My old
unicycle also had "Rotor Cranks" before I snapped it's hub.

I can't say it seemed to be much different once you get comfortable
with the odd rotation. The "science" behind the idea sounds rather
quack though.

If you want to try it, and have a unicycle with a splined hub, just
rotate one of the cranks a few degrees and see what it is like.

If you don't have a splined hub, do a few drops until your hub twists
to the desired angle. LOL!

Are you sure the site isn't a prank?

It reminds me of: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/PMP_main.htm

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It presumably adds a very slight amount of efficiency for people who are
riding at a very high level. It probably doesn't reduce efficiency, or
else people wouldn't be winning races with it.

Spinning shouldn't be a problem as you're still spinning, just that the
feet are spinning at slightly different speeds at any point. I guess
their point is that even the best spinners can't apply constant force
all the way round whilst riding flat out as they inevitably can push
down harder than they can push forwards.

This sort of thing is surely less important on a fixed gear anyway, as
the wheel momentum pushes you through the dead spot anyway.

Joe

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While reducing the dead spot for one leg, doesn't this create a worse
dead spot for the other leg?

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UNIquelyCanadian said:

I converted my BMX cranks into Rotor Cranks by doing dirt jump! My old
unicycle also had "Rotor Cranks" before I snapped it's hub.

That's not how the Rotor Cranks work. The amount of offset is not
fixed like you'd have if you had a bent hub. The offset changes
throughout the pedal stroke. 'See the simulation here'
(http://www.rotorbike.com/eng/simulador_RS4_RD2_53.htm).

I wouldn't want them on a unicycle. We control our balance by being
able to make micro-adjustments to the pedaling motion. Having the
cranks change in offset while you are pedaling would just mess
everything up.

For bikes the concept might work, but not on a unicycle.

The Rotor Cranks aren't new. I knew about them more than two years
ago. Strange that it just hit the blogs like it was new.

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joemarshall said:

It presumably adds a very slight amount of efficiency for people who are
riding at a very high level. It probably doesn't reduce efficiency, or
else people wouldn't be winning races with it.

There was a Cat 1 racer here in California who did a series of races on
an old steel Peugeot, in sneakers and cutoff jeans, on platform pedals.
I forget if he had straps or not. He won at least one race that way;
I remember the interview afterwards. The point being, whether someone
wins a race or not has a lot more to do with the rider than the bike,
so it's easy to introduce inefficiencies into the system and still win
races.

If nothing else, these introduce extra rotating weight.

Note that they are *not* simply offset cranks; there's some sort of
racheting mechanism which changes the position of the cranks relative
to each other during the pedal stroke.

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Watching the simulation it shows how the gearing changes as the crank
position changes, i suspect this would be highly tricky to ride on a
unicycle, especially as effectively both your feet are on different
gears, they would always be moving at different speeds (except at the
cros-over point). This could seriously mess with your balance I think.
The way it works is highly impressive, but I don't think it would be
viable for a unicycle.

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john_childs said:

That's not how the Rotor Cranks work. The amount of offset is not fixed
like you'd have if you had a bent hub. The offset changes throughout
the pedal stroke. 'See the simulation here'
(http://www.rotorbike.com/eng/simulador_RS4_RD2_53.htm).

I wouldn't want them on a unicycle. We control our balance by being
able to make micro-adjustments to the pedaling motion. Having the
cranks change in offset while you are pedaling would just mess
everything up.

For bikes the concept might work, but not on a unicycle.

The Rotor Cranks aren't new. I knew about them more than two years
ago. Strange that it just hit the blogs like it was new.

True. 🙂 However,doesn't bent cranks do the same thing for the "dead
spot" though? Or am I missing something?

I'm still kind of dubious about the idea...

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I think you'd learn to ride them just fine, similar to riding a two
wheeler or myron cycle. It's just a matter of time on it until you get
proficient.

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Well Im not expert.. but considering you'd put that on a coker.. that
would be very pointless Im sure someone with a geared coker would go as
fast as someone with that.. correct me if Im wrong tho..

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The only thing I can think of them being useful for are maybe muni, so
you always have a pedal that can produce power, and people learning. I
see a lot of people getting stuck in a no-power situation.

In any case, I'm not planning on running out and putting a set on my
muni, I just wanted to know what other people thought...

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phlegm said:

While reducing the dead spot for one leg, doesn't this create a worse
dead spot for the other leg?

Thats what I thought at first too, but its not just regular crank arms
set at a slight angle...its a geared hub, so whichever crank arm is at
the top is automatically slightly ahead.
I personally think it could work, for distance riding at least.

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It looks promising to me. My first thought, Gee I could uni up to a
curb and always be sure that I'd be in a power stroke position to ride
up it.

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I'm not sure about you guys, but I've found at least a couple decent
ways to get around the dead spot.

If I'm going to be going up over a curb, I do a tiny little hop before
I hit it if my pedals are in "the power position".

Sometimes if I need to change my pedal position but can't roll
anywhere, I do a little hop in place with my pedals askew, and then
align them midair.

I always thought doing things the hard way was half the fun of
unicycling.

EDIT: Make that "more than half the fun".

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skicker said:

Wonder what this would be like on a unicycle?

Extremely expensive! You'd have to modify the pricy stuff shown on that
site, to an unknown cost.

tholub said:

What begins as a bad idea on the bicycle will turn into a worse one on
the unicycle, as I'm sure the cranks are not designed to deal with
pressure applied in the backwards direction.

Uh, don't you ever idle or hop? 🙂

But it's true, bicycle cranks really aren't made to handle pressure in
both directions. That's why the square taper design isn't quite good
enough for unicycles.

I think riding with those cranks would be interesting, but only the
richest of rich people would likely benefit. To me, the dead spot is
part of what makes unicycling the challenge it is. Overcoming the dead
spot is a big part of learning to ride.

However, reducing dead spot for things like MUni or rolling trials
would be very interesting. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to ride
with those type of cranks, you'd just need a bit of time to get used to
the different foot movement. Then you could experiment with the ability
to ride over terrain while never getting stuck in the dead spot!

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johnfoss said:

Extremely expensive! You'd have to modify the pricy stuff shown on that
site, to an unknown cost.

Uh, don't you ever idle or hop? 🙂

But it's true, bicycle cranks really aren't made to handle pressure in
both directions. That's why the square taper design isn't quite good
enough for unicycles.

I think riding with those cranks would be interesting, but only the
richest of rich people would likely benefit. To me, the dead spot is
part of what makes unicycling the challenge it is. Overcoming the dead
spot is a big part of learning to ride.

However, reducing dead spot for things like MUni or rolling trials
would be very interesting. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to ride
with those type of cranks, you'd just need a bit of time to get used to
the different foot movement. Then you could experiment with the ability
to ride over terrain while never getting stuck in the dead spot!

The issue isn't that they're bicycle cranks; it's that they've got some
funky ratcheting mechanism that probably isn't set up to provide real
power in the rearward direction. And yes, that would mess up your
idling and hopping, not to mention going downhill.

And there's no way these cranks can eliminate the dead spot; the dead
spot is biomechanical. All they can do is move it around.

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Yes but arnt they moving it so you would never reach it??

Mike

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