SWB vs Easy Racer

[Dave Larrington]

Bill Patterson asked:

> Why are most European recumbents swb rather than lwb? Is it because you civilized guys know how to
> build swb?

My theory is that it's because European cars are smaller, so SWB's are easier to transport ;-) Or
possibly because LWB seems to offer no advantage over SWB and a Several of drawbacks.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
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Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Dave Larrington]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> "Big Gun" [...] was only bike competing in the top speed trials at the 2002 WHPSC that did not
> have a canopy.

Alas, Tom, you are mistaken. It does have one, though Steve was obliged to hack a hole in it to
allow him to angle his head so as to be able to see where he was heading. Prior to that, the
dialogue went:

Steve: Freddy, can you see the asphalt?
Mr. Markham (for it is he): No. (Pause). I can see the mountains. [Groans all round]

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
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Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Dave Larrington]

Gabe wrote:

> by that definition the rear wheel could be 6 feet back from the front....

Yep. I think it's John "Rocketman" Williams has an SWB which fits this description, being a sort of
recumbent pickup truck - extended load bed behind the seat. The wheelbase on my Baron is, IIRC, 1.39
m / 55", but its layout identifies it in my mind as SWB.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Dave Larrington]

Guy points us at Futurecycles webby neurons. By squinting, it appears that the LWB in the right
picture is a Linear, while the Tour Easy *may* be Andrew Alexander's and thus one of the four I
mentioned earlier

There are still a few LWB's made over here - the aforementioned Fateba has been around for ever -
assorted MicWics and Ultimate Bikes' Cobra, but compared with the likes of Challenge and Optima,
their production is miniscule.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Mikael Seierup]

"Dave Larrington" skrev ...
> My theory is that it's because European cars are smaller, so SWB's are easier to transport ;-) Or
> possibly because LWB seems to offer no advantage over SWB and a Several of drawbacks.

I must say that I like my TE-clone. One unexpected advantage is that its seating geometry seems to
be similar to my old onespeed DF. So I could hop on the DF today without too many ill effects. (as
in sore neck, back, wrists.)

Mikael

 

[S. Delaire \"Ro]

The 700c version started a little over two years ago with a gift from Shimano of a set of beautiful
Utegra wheels. They asked us to try them on a bike. Glad they
did. The customers love them. Smooth on the road. Makes for a looong bike. Gearing isn't as wide but
most customers seem to prefer the regular gear system.

Still taking orders for the 20" wheel version. Happy cycling Steve

"EZ Biker " wrote:

> I don't know Tom! Maybe some "dueling" wheels might help me to go faster... <Grin> (Hey I can't
> spell worth a FLIP, much less even roll somewhat fast on a bike! ;-) <Grin> By the way, I really
> do LIKE your COCOON-WIND! I enjoy my "Regular Wind", especially with the Conti's I recently put
> on, in place of the Hookworms and the added fairing. And YES, you are correct about the Rotator
> wheels being DUAL 700cc's. Makes me wonder if the Rotator people are moving away from the DUAL 20
> inch wheel setup, and following the path of other BIG DUAL Wheel recumbo manufacturers. Vision,
> Bacchetta? EZ Biker Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)
>
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "EZ Biker " wrote:
> > >
> > > In those pictures, his wheels seem to be (DUEL) 650's...
> >
> > EZ,
> >
> > What is with these bikes that have the wheels fighting each other?
> >
> > I believe the Rotator "Big Gun" has DUAL ISO 622-mm (700C) wheels.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

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[S. Delaire \"Ro]

One of the nights at Battle Mountain I was the first out and went through just fine. The three next
bikes were were short wheelbase that all fell and closed the track for the remainder of the evening.
Big Gun is still a baby with some problems. I made the disc wheels and they have too much side to
side flex in fact they were banging around so much that I could smell brakes for the whole run.
Watch the wheels closely in the Barcroft video. Can't say for sure how the thing does in cross winds
yet with the wheels as bad as they are. Happy cycling Steve

Tom Sherman wrote:

> "S. Delaire \"Rotatorrecumbent\"" wrote:
> >
> > In the case of the "Big Gun" the wheel size is 700c and choice was made based on availability of
> > high quality tires....
>
> A couple things that should be mentioned about the "Big Gun" was that it was only bike competing
> in the top speed trials at the 2002 WHPSC [1] that did not have a canopy. In addition, the "Big
> Gun" appears to almost be able to be ridden on the street [2], which can not be said about any of
> the other competitor with the exception of Warren Beauchamp's Barracuda. In this context, the 62
> mph (100 kph) speed attained is VERY impressive.
>
> [1]http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/whpsc2002/speedchallenge-2002.htm
> [2] Maybe Steve Delaire will comment on crosswind stability.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

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[[email protected]]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Bill Patterson asked:
>
> > Why are most European recumbents swb rather than lwb? Is it because you civilized guys know how
> > to build swb?
>
> My theory is that it's because European cars are smaller, so SWB's are easier to transport ;-) Or
> possibly because LWB seems to offer no advantage over SWB and a Several of drawbacks.
>
Pretty weak theory there Dave....my lwb bike can out drag, out corner and out brake every other
recumbent type bike I can think of. As for top speed it might be a little vulnerable to several
bikes, but not by much. What you need is a huge SUV to carry your bike around....works for me the
few times a year I actually have to load a bike to ride it (sic)

Freddy

 

[Gabriel Devault]

The EZ-1 has a 56.5" wheelbase, 1.5" more than your Baron, and I have never heard it called a SWB.
If you all wanna define a bike by the BB why don't you just call it a high racer, low racer, etc...
oh wait... now I'm really confused : )

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gabe wrote:
>
> > by that definition the rear wheel could be 6 feet back from the front....
>
> Yep. I think it's John "Rocketman" Williams has an SWB which fits this description, being a sort
> of recumbent pickup truck - extended load bed behind the seat. The wheelbase on my Baron is, IIRC,
> 1.39 m / 55", but
its
> layout identifies it in my mind as SWB.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
> ===========================================================
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ===========================================================

 

[Dave Larrington]

Freddy wrote:

> my lwb bike can out drag, out corner and out brake every other recumbent type bike I can think of.
> As for top speed it might be a little vulnerable to several bikes, but not by much.

I think you missed a few small, but important, words there, Fred. Specifically "with me on it"

> What you need is a huge SUV to carry your bike around

My Baron fits snugly in the back of my sub-Golf sized hatchback (though may not now removing the
front wheel is something of a performance). Can't see the logic of buying something which does ten
to the gallon and won't fit:

a. between the width restrictors between Larrington Towers and the "Alfred Hitchcock"[1], and
b. through the underpass into the car park of the "Alfred Hitchcock"[2]

for nine or a dozen trips to the races per year. In any case, they cost far more to buy than I can
afford to drop on a motor.

1. It's a pub
2. We tried it with my mate John's Land-Rover. It got stuck.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Bill Hole]

In article <[email protected]>, "S. Delaire \"Rotatorrecumbent\""
<[email protected]> wrote:

> The 700c version started a little over two years ago with a gift from Shimano of a set of
> beautiful Utegra wheels. They asked us to try them on a bike. Glad they
> did. The customers love them. Smooth on the road. Makes for a looong bike. Gearing isn't as wide
> but most customers seem to prefer the regular gear system.
>
> Still taking orders for the 20" wheel version. Happy cycling Steve
>

Steve, have you ever built a big-wheel Tiger? If so, how did it compare to the Pursuit and the
small-wheel Tiger? Seems to me that a big-wheel Tiger would compare very nicely to the Bacchettas.

Bill Hole Rotator Pursuit (20" and lovin' it) BikeE E2

--
Bill Hole [email protected]

 

[[email protected]]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
> I think you missed a few small, but important, words there, Fred. Specifically "with me on it"
Dave, I guess it would be safe to say Easy racers would have never won so many races if it weren't
for me....to bad I don't have that kind of fitness anymore....maybe I need a lighter and faster
bike....maybe out of carbon....ok I'm going to work on that Freddy

 

[Zach Kaplan Cyc]

How convenient Dave that you have a pub right next to the Larrington Towers. My local pub is about a
4 minute walk away but I've never set foot in it. I hope the price of fuel continues to climb in the
US to discourage the use of inefficient vehicles and the overuse of motor vehicles in general. I
wish the TDI version of the VW Transporter was sold in the US. That gets better fuel economy than
most cars in the US and could haul multiple LWB bikes and tandems inside.

Zach Kaplan

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Freddy wrote:
>
> > my lwb bike can out drag, out corner and out brake every other recumbent type bike I can think
> > of. As for top speed it might be a little vulnerable to several bikes, but not by much.
>
> I think you missed a few small, but important, words there, Fred. Specifically "with me on it"
>
> > What you need is a huge SUV to carry your bike around
>
> My Baron fits snugly in the back of my sub-Golf sized hatchback (though may not now removing the
> front wheel is something of a performance). Can't see the logic of buying something which does ten
> to the gallon and won't fit:
>
> a. between the width restrictors between Larrington Towers and the "Alfred Hitchcock"[1], and
> b. through the underpass into the car park of the "Alfred Hitchcock"[2]
>
> for nine or a dozen trips to the races per year. In any case, they cost far more to buy than I can
> afford to drop on a motor.
>
> 1. It's a pub
> 2. We tried it with my mate John's Land-Rover. It got stuck.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
> ===========================================================
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ===========================================================

 

[Tom Sherman]

Gabriel DeVault wrote:
>
> The EZ-1 has a 56.5" wheelbase, 1.5" more than your Baron, and I have never heard it called a SWB.
> If you all wanna define a bike by the BB why don't you just call it a high racer, low racer,
> etc... oh wait... now I'm really confused : )

Gabe,

It is good you work for a company that makes only one bike design - all you have to do is remember
the difference between steel, aluminium alloy, and titanium alloy.

P.S. I think the Tour Easy should be renamed the "Steel Rush".

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

 

[Tom Sherman]

Zach Kaplan Cycles wrote:
>
> ... I hope the price of fuel continues to climb in the US to discourage the use of inefficient
> vehicles and the overuse of motor vehicles in general. I wish the TDI version of the VW
> Transporter was sold in the US. That gets better fuel economy than most cars in the US and could
> haul multiple LWB bikes and tandems inside.
>
> Zach Kaplan

I wish we had a nationwide network of Maglev trains that could carry motor vehicles. People in the
US would actually such a system, since it would allow them to keep using their personal motor
vehicles. The amount of fossil fuels (and the resulting pollution) used would be dramatically
decreased, as would congestion and travel times. Corporate welfare for the high security risk
airlines could be greatly decreased, as the Maglev/personal motor vehicle system would be faster
point-to-point for all but the longest domestic trips. Best of all, the US could stop keeping the
brutal and repressive Saudi royal family in power, and there would be almost no public support for
idiotic imperialistic ventures such as invading Iraq. [1]

[1] I must admit as a civil engineer, I have a bias towards creating infrastructure to improve the
quality of life, rather than destroying lives and the quality of life by violence.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

"A truly rich person in America is one who sees beyond his own selfishness and gladly gives back to
the society that has created and sustains the environment in which that wealth is made and secured."
- John Moyers

 

[Dave Larrington]

Au contraire, Zach, the "Alfred Hitchcock" is a couple of miles away. It's easier to cycle there
than to drive, but driving has been done in inclement weather, when returning from farther afield or
after collecting Mrs Larrington from Leytonstone station.

There *are* three or four pubs within a couple of minutes walk of Larrington Towers, but they are,
without exception, Pikey[1]-infested fleapits.

1 - using the word Pikey in its modern sense of general low-life scumbag, rather than as a
derogatory term for a Roma.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Skip]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...<snip
political content>

> I wish we had a nationwide network of Maglev trains that could carry motor vehicles. People in the
> US would actually such a system, since it would allow them to keep using their personal motor
> vehicles. The amount of fossil fuels (and the resulting pollution) used would be dramatically
> decreased, as would congestion and travel times.

I wish we had this too. I find idea very appealing and would certainly use it if it were reasonably
priced. I don't enjoy driving long distances and would much rather ride and relax.

There seems to be some serious development work going on in Florida.

 

[Skip]

P.S. I'm making the presumption that it would be possible to relax on a train capable of doing 270
mph. But regardless I'd sure like to give one a try.

"skip" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...<snip
> political content>
>
> > I wish we had a nationwide network of Maglev trains that could carry motor vehicles. People in
> > the US would actually such a system, since it would allow them to keep using their personal
> > motor vehicles. The amount of fossil fuels (and the resulting pollution) used would be
> > dramatically decreased, as would congestion and travel times.
>
> I wish we had this too. I find idea very appealing and would certainly
use
> it if it were reasonably priced. I don't enjoy driving long distances and would much rather ride
> and relax.
>
> There seems to be some serious development work going on in Florida.

 

[Christopher Jor]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Zach Kaplan Cycles wrote:
> >
> > ... I hope the price of fuel continues to climb in the US to discourage the use of inefficient
> > vehicles and the overuse of motor vehicles in general. I wish the TDI version of the VW
> > Transporter was sold in the US. That gets better fuel economy than most cars in the US and could
> > haul multiple LWB bikes and tandems inside.
> >
> > Zach Kaplan
>
> I wish we had a nationwide network of Maglev trains that could carry motor vehicles.

What?!? Then have nationwide Maglev terrorism?!? All the security measures around bridges and BART
are shocking.

The amount
> of fossil fuels (and the resulting pollution) used would be dramatically decreased,

I lived 1 mile from the epicenter of the 1989 North California earthquake. Nice as it was to use my
bent exclusively, all the immediate stoppage of vehicles except a few bikes was quite eerie.
Confusion was the key word; not congestion!

> Corporate welfare for the high security risk airlines could be greatly decreased, as the
> Maglev/personal motor vehicle system would be faster point-to-point for all but the longest
> domestic trips. Best of all, the US could stop keeping the brutal and repressive Saudi royal
> family in power, and there would be almost no public support for idiotic imperialistic ventures
> such as invading Iraq. [1]
>
> [1] I must admit as a civil engineer, I have a bias towards creating infrastructure to improve
> the quality of life, rather than destroying lives and the quality of life by violence.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's
>
> "A truly rich person in America is one who sees beyond his own selfishness and gladly gives back
> to the society that has created and sustains the environment in which that wealth is made and
> secured." - John Moyers

However, as gas prices go up in slow increments, the switch to pedal power now is much smoother and
not so sudden.

Chris Jordan Santa Cruz, CA.

 

[John Riley]

I don't think it would have to be maglev. Just ordinary trains that went faster than cars might do
it. I think they already have car hauling trains on the East coast so snowbirds can have their cars
in Florida without having to drive them.

Florida is working on high speed passenger trains, but Florida doesn't have enough density anywere
for this to work in a conventional sense, as far as I can see. You would either need to take cars on
the train, or have rentals readily available at every station. The second option might work. That is
pretty much what happens when you fly anywhere in Florida now.

The train/bike combination would be only for the brave in Florida. It is one of the least safe
places to bike in the country.

John Riley