Stuffing/dressing question

Michael Kuettner said:

Steve Pope schrieb

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Michael Kuettner wrote:

Quoted message said:

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Interesting misunderstanding of "stale bread" on your side of the pond.
You let the rolls (or bread) get stale enough for easy cubing without
creating a lot of crumbs.
Then you dry the cubes in the oven.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not sure how you define staleness, but it's not merely dryness.
It's a change (I would say a decline) in quality that usually takes
many days to occur, but can happen faster with some bread
(French breads in particular).

Quoted message said:

Staleness isn't dryness. See above.

Yes, we've both said that.

Quoted message said:

You want a "spongy" feel to
the rolls (or French bread).
If it would be dry, you'd create a lot of crumbs again.

When I do this I get some bread crumbs, but no more than about
10% to 15% of the total amount of bread. This is to me acceptable
(especially when you consider some prefer their stuffing to be
100% crumbs).

It's the flavor of truly stale bread that I would want to avoid.

If I wanted zero crumbs in my stuffing, I would just not include
them and save them for some other use.

Steve

Ken Knecht said:

Any minute now it will be Thanksgiving Day. I have a piece of smoked
turkey in the freezer I'd like to prepare for my meal that day. However,
I love dressing (or stuffing if you prefer) and usually roast a whole
chicken for that reason.

In spite of several attempts, I've never been able to prepare decent
stuffing without putting it in a bird. I find the stovetop brands
inedible. I know the ingredients, but can anyone tell me a surefire
technique from preparing stuffing outside the bird? I'd certainly make it
more often if I knew how.

TIA

Here's what I do. I take a standard 20 oz. loaf of white bread and
spread the slices out on the kitchen table to dry overnight. If they
aren't dry by the morning I put them in a very low oven until they are
bone dry and crunchy. I then crumble the bread up into a large bowl.
I then melt one stick of butter and slowly cook 1 medium diced onion
and a 1 rib of diced celery until the onion and and celery are good
and soft. I then add all that to the crumbled bread and toss. I then
mix in about 1 1/2 cans of chicken broth. The dressing should not be
soupy. It should be kind of doughy in texture. Next I add in about a
teaspoon of poultry seasoning. The final ingredient is 1 beaten egg.
The dressing is baked in an uncovered dish at 350 F. for 45 minutes to
an hour.

The message <[email hidden]>
from [email hidden] (Steve Pope) contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Peter A <[email hidden]> wrote:

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Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, "stuffing" is cooked inside something (stuffed)
while dressing is cooked on its own.

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According to Helen Brown, originally "stuffing" was what you
fed the bird *before* killing it,

She may have got miixed up with forcefeeding corn to geese to make
their liver hugely fat ( to make pate de fois gras). Or, with feeding
chickens corn in the weeks before killing, to fatten them up a bit.
Either way, corn is not stuffing, it passed through the bird's digestive
tract and people do not eat any part of the digestive tract.

Quoted message said:

anything cooked afterwards
was "dressing".

Dressing a bird means preparing the dead body by hanging, plucking,
taking off the head and feet, and stripping out the guts. It's not a
cooking procedure.

Janet

Janet Baraclough said...

Quoted message said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from [email hidden] (Steve Pope) contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Peter A <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, "stuffing" is cooked inside something (stuffed)
while dressing is cooked on its own.

Quoted message said:

According to Helen Brown, originally "stuffing" was what you
fed the bird *before* killing it,

She may have got miixed up with forcefeeding corn to geese to make
their liver hugely fat ( to make pate de fois gras). Or, with feeding
chickens corn in the weeks before killing, to fatten them up a bit.
Either way, corn is not stuffing, it passed through the bird's digestive
tract and people do not eat any part of the digestive tract.

Quoted message said:

anything cooked afterwards
was "dressing".

Dressing a bird means preparing the dead body by hanging, plucking,
taking off the head and feet, and stripping out the guts. It's not a
cooking procedure.

Janet

BUTTERBALL'S Final Words on Stuffing...

"Whether you choose to stuff your turkey or cook stuffing in a casserole
dish is a matter of personal preference."

ANDY'S Final Words on Stuffing...

I have no personal preference. Although cooking stuffing in the bird is an
oven space saver.

Andy

Christine Dabney said:

Boron Elgar said:

Use a sort of savory bread pudding for stuffing...I posted it here 2
years ago....

Quoted message said:

This was my grandmother's and mother's way of making stuffing and I
have never used exact measurements, as I leaned by sight and feel as
I grew up. I hope it can be "translated" this way. I do believe in
the early years, my grandmother used schmaltz instead of Wishbone!

The thing is, while yours sounds really good too, I really do like my
stuffing. I just want to be able to make a larger portion of it, and
have it cooked nicely outside the bird, in a casserole.

Is there a way to do that, without tampering with it too much? I
don't want eggs in my stuffing, and I prefer not to add much broth...
I really have always liked the flavor of this one.... Plus, it just
says home and memories to me.

Christine

What you're missing is the turkey flavor. Perhaps adding some of the
turkey juices/drippings to your casserole might help? (I'm winging it
here, Christine, since I only cook the dressing inside the bird.)

Dora

Janet Baraclough said:

from [email hidden] (Steve Pope) contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

According to Helen Brown, originally "stuffing" was what you
fed the bird *before* killing it,

Quoted message said:

She may have got miixed up with forcefeeding corn to geese to make
their liver hugely fat ( to make pate de fois gras). Or, with feeding
chickens corn in the weeks before killing, to fatten them up a bit.

Her example was "stuffing" turkeys by feeding them a walnut
diet for a few days.

Helen Brown was seldom mixed up about anything.

Quoted message said:

Either way, corn is not stuffing, it passed through the bird's digestive
tract and people do not eat any part of the digestive tract.

Certainly true.

Steve

Steve wrote on Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:42:07 +0000 (UTC):

??>> from [email hidden] (Steve Pope) contains these
words:

??>>> According to Helen Brown, originally "stuffing" was what
??>>> you fed the bird *before* killing it,

??>> She may have got miixed up with forcefeeding corn to geese
??>> to make their liver hugely fat ( to make pate de fois
??>> gras). Or, with feeding chickens corn in the weeks before
??>> killing, to fatten them up a bit.

SP> Her example was "stuffing" turkeys by feeding them a walnut
SP> diet for a few days.

SP> Helen Brown was seldom mixed up about anything.

??>> Either way, corn is not stuffing, it passed through the
??>> bird's digestive tract and people do not eat any part of
??>> the digestive tract.

SP> Certainly true.

Is the gizzard part of the digestive tract? People do eat those.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton said:

Steve wrote on Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:42:07 +0000 (UTC):

Quoted message said:

SP> Her example was "stuffing" turkeys by feeding them a walnut
SP> diet for a few days.

Quoted message said:

Is the gizzard part of the digestive tract? People do eat those.

So would there be crumbled walnuts in the gizzrd if the turkey
had been eating them?

(Serious question, I have no idea.)

Steve

Steve wrote on Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:27:24 +0000 (UTC):

??>> Steve wrote on Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:42:07 +0000 (UTC):

SP>>> Her example was "stuffing" turkeys by feeding them a
SP>>> walnut diet for a few days.

??>> Is the gizzard part of the digestive tract? People do eat
??>> those.

SP> So would there be crumbled walnuts in the gizzrd if the
SP> turkey had been eating them?

SP> (Serious question, I have no idea.)

A fine speculation but you notice that I said "People eat" not
"I eat"! I vaguely remember that they were cleaned out.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:LbMUi.172
$a01.3@trnddc06:

Quoted message said:

A fine speculation but you notice that I said "People eat" not
"I eat"! I vaguely remember that they were cleaned out.

They have to be... the gizzad is where birds store the rocks and small
pebbles used to masticate their food.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore

The message <[email hidden]>
from [email hidden] (Steve Pope) contains these words:

Quoted message said:

James Silverton <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Steve wrote on Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:42:07 +0000 (UTC):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SP> Her example was "stuffing" turkeys by feeding them a walnut
SP> diet for a few days.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is the gizzard part of the digestive tract? People do eat those.

Quoted message said:

So would there be crumbled walnuts in the gizzrd if the turkey
had been eating them?

Quoted message said:

(Serious question, I have no idea.)

The walnuts would already have been predigested by the hydrochloric
acid in the proventriculus.

Janet.

Christine Dabney said:

hahabogus said:

Christine Dabney <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Maybe I can finally learn from you folks how to fix stuffing/dressing
outside the turkey. I keep on trying it, every year, and it fails
dismally.

Have you tried the Basic James beard stuffing recipe? I used that for a few
years then followed it kinda to a more involved dressing with wild rice and
sausage added. Just involves the use of chicken stock or turkey stock made
from chicken stock to help moisten the stuff. It sure does cut down on the
cooking time if the dressing is cooked outside of the bird.

The thing is, I like my stuffing a lot. I don't want to mess with it,
other than to get it to cook right outside the bird, inside a
casserole.

Christine

just make sure *you* get the stuffing from inside the bird, and give
your guests the other stuff.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:04:15 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Steve Pope) said:

Christine Dabney said:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:45:49 -0400, "cybercat" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Christine--it is the bird juice you are missing outside the bird! Try
a bit of your homemade stock. You don't need a lot. I definitely
can't see eggs in stuffing. Cover the casserole, and it will be moist
and great.

Quoted message said:

This is what I have tried before.. what others suggested. It is either
pasty, gummy, or too dry...or the top gets hard, and the inside stays
TOO soggy, or a whole range of things. I usually use turkey broth,
that I have made before the big day.

What are you baking it in? Something reasonable like a
Le Cruset is necessary. Also the temperature within a roasting
turkey cavity is seldom going to be over 200 F, so that should be
your guide for oven temperature for baking stuffing.

I normally bake stuffing for about an hour, swap it out of
oven for the turkey, and keep the stuffing barely warm on
a burner until the turkey is ready. Obviously, having two
ovens would be ideal, but I don't. 😉

Steve

this sounds very logical, steve, so there must be something wrong with
it, but damn if i can see what it is. but it sounds like you get good
results.

your pal,
blake

Christine Dabney said:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:10:05 GMT, "Knit Chic" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I make a darn good stuffing in a clay pot. I soak the pot in water before
using.

Hmm..another interesting idea. I might have to get a clay
pot/roaster......

Christine

jeez, christine, soon your kitchen will have to be in a separate house
of its own.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy said:

Christine Dabney said:

hahabogus said:

Christine Dabney <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

>Maybe I can finally learn from you folks how to fix stuffing/dressing
>outside the turkey. I keep on trying it, every year, and it fails
>dismally.
>

Have you tried the Basic James beard stuffing recipe? I used that for a few
years then followed it kinda to a more involved dressing with wild rice and
sausage added. Just involves the use of chicken stock or turkey stock made

Quoted message said:

from chicken stock to help moisten the stuff. It sure does cut down on the

Quoted message said:

cooking time if the dressing is cooked outside of the bird.

The thing is, I like my stuffing a lot. I don't want to mess with it,
other than to get it to cook right outside the bird, inside a
casserole.

Christine

just make sure *you* get the stuffing from inside the bird, and give
your guests the other stuff.

your pal,
blake

I know there are all sorts of variations, everybody has their personal
preferences, and a corn bread stuffing is second on my list but i always
come back to the old, traditional English sage and onion and bread
stuffing, just a wonderful combo of flavours IMO.

Of course i add garlic and the chopped liver of what ever bird im
stuffing or a little pork fat if im stuffing a pork chop. Moisten with
a little white wine instead of milk.
--
JL

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 17:01:38 GMT, blake murphy <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Christine Dabney said:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:10:05 GMT, "Knit Chic" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I make a darn good stuffing in a clay pot. I soak the pot in water before
using.

Hmm..another interesting idea. I might have to get a clay
pot/roaster......

Christine

jeez, christine, soon your kitchen will have to be in a separate house
of its own.

your pal,
blake

Oh blake, you have no idea. I have pictures to prove it._yes_Christine
I kept those photos.
Actually her kitchen/cooking area takes up about 1/4 of her house. Her
kitchen is to live for.

Trust me, she wont get just_one_clay pot/roaster ;-)

koko
---
http://www.kokoscorner.typepad.com
updated 10/23

"There is no love more sincere than the love of food"
George Bernard Shaw

cybercat said:

"blake murphy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this sounds very logical, steve, so there must be something wrong with
it

Quoted message said:

Some might say the long time sitting on the stove barely warm would
encourage bacteria growth.

Not if it's 140 F or higher. Then you're in the clear.

(But depending on timing I might refrigerate/reheat the stuffing
instead of holding it at temperature.)

Steve

"blake murphy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

this sounds very logical, steve, so there must be something wrong with
it

Some might say the long time sitting on the stove barely warm would
encourage bacteria growth. These are the same asses who felt they
had to STOP putting ANY stuffing in the bird just because some
genius suggested that stuffing in undercooked birds could make you
sick.

koko said:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 17:01:38 GMT, blake murphy <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

jeez, christine, soon your kitchen will have to be in a separate house
of its own.

your pal,
blake

Oh blake, you have no idea. I have pictures to prove it._yes_Christine
I kept those photos.

How many did you take? I know after you discovered that I had an
*adequate* supply of glass measuring cups, you went around and started
taking pictures....

Quoted message said:

Actually her kitchen/cooking area takes up about 1/4 of her house. Her
kitchen is to live for.

Trust me, she wont get just_one_clay pot/roaster ;-)

Oh yes I will. Just one.. cause I have a few other things on my list
now. I am restraining myself though, cause I need to save to move
back to the SF bay area in the next year or so. Just hope I can find
as nice a kitchen there....

Christine