Stuffing/dressing question

Steve Pope schrieb

Quoted message said:

Goomba38 said:

Steve Pope wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't have too much to add to what everyone else will say, other
than avoiding stovetop brands, and making such the ingredents (bread,
celery, onion, sage, vegetable stock, olive oil or butter) are good
quality and fresh. Avoid things like stale powdered sage, canned
chicken broth, low quality bread -- I use half each of sourdough
french bread and whole wheat loaf bread from a good bakery.
Do not purposefully use stale bread, and do not use bread crumbs --
bread should be lightly toasted then diced, not crumbed.

Quoted message said:

I always cube my bread the night before and let sit in a large bowl or
pan covered by a tea towel to stale up a bit.

Overnight would not be a problem (and gets some of the prep out of
the way). Bread that is many days stale is I think unappetizing,
even made into stuffing.

Interesting misunderstanding of "stale bread" on your side of the pond.
You let the rolls (or bread) get stale enough for easy cubing without
creating a lot of crumbs.
Then you dry the cubes in the oven.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

In article <[email hidden]>,

Christine Dabney said:

Maybe I can finally learn from you folks how to fix stuffing/dressing
outside the turkey. I keep on trying it, every year, and it fails
dismally.

I'm with you. My wife includes casserole dressing during the holidays
for a large group. We can't give it away when dinner is over if the
original recipient had in-bird dressing beforehand. Neither the texture
nor the taste is close to the same as the Real McCoy.

leo

"Christine Dabney" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Maybe I can finally learn from you folks how to fix stuffing/dressing
outside the turkey. I keep on trying it, every year, and it fails
dismally.

However, my stuffing is not much more than breadcrumbs, seasonings,
onion and celery. I save chicken fat all year for this, to saute the
onions and celery. I don't add any broth or eggs to it. Inside the
bird, it turns out moist and wonderful. In a casserole, well...it's
pretty dismal. I have tried a lot of what folks have suggested, and
I must not have the stuffing in a casserole gene. But maybe there is
hope..maybe you all can teach me a few tricks.

Christine--it is the bird juice you are missing outside the bird! Try
a bit of your homemade stock. You don't need a lot. I definitely
can't see eggs in stuffing. Cover the casserole, and it will be moist
and great.

"Steve Pope" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

That has to be one of the most unusual stuffing recipes I've
yet seen!

Yeah, I think it sounds good, too.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Any minute now it will be Thanksgiving Day. I have a piece of smoked
turkey in the freezer I'd like to prepare for my meal that day. However,
I love dressing (or stuffing if you prefer) and usually roast a whole
chicken for that reason.

In spite of several attempts, I've never been able to prepare decent
stuffing without putting it in a bird. I find the stovetop brands
inedible. I know the ingredients, but can anyone tell me a surefire
technique from preparing stuffing outside the bird? I'd certainly make it
more often if I knew how.

LOL, you are right about the "stovetop" brands, what horrors.

For what it's worth, "stuffing" is cooked inside something (stuffed)
while dressing is cooked on its own. Stuffing tastes better because it
is soaked with fat and juices from the bird.
--
Peter Aitken

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:45:49 -0400, "cybercat" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Christine--it is the bird juice you are missing outside the bird! Try
a bit of your homemade stock. You don't need a lot. I definitely
can't see eggs in stuffing. Cover the casserole, and it will be moist
and great.

This is what I have tried before.. what others suggested. It is either
pasty, gummy, or too dry...or the top gets hard, and the inside stays
TOO soggy, or a whole range of things. I usually use turkey broth,
that I have made before the big day.

Maybe I will get a small bag of stuffing mix and try it before
Thanksgiving...just to finally get it right.

Christine

Christine Dabney said:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:28:08 GMT, hahabogus <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Have you tried the Basic James beard stuffing recipe? I used
that for a few years then followed it kinda to a more involved
dressing with wild rice and sausage added. Just involves the
use of chicken stock or turkey stock made from chicken stock
to help moisten the stuff. It sure does cut down on the cooking
time if the dressing is cooked outside of the bird.

Quoted message said:

The thing is, I like my stuffing a lot. I don't want to mess with it,
other than to get it to cook right outside the bird, inside a
casserole.

In what way is it "not right"? There must be something
(moisture, fat content, stock/dripping content) that can be
adjusted to get it closer to the from-bird version.

BTW, the James Beard recipe I have says to use only butter
for moisture. Classic Beard.

Steve

Michael Kuettner said:

Steve Pope schrieb

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Goomba38 <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I always cube my bread the night before and let sit in a large bowl or
pan covered by a tea towel to stale up a bit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Overnight would not be a problem (and gets some of the prep out of
the way). Bread that is many days stale is I think unappetizing,
even made into stuffing.

Quoted message said:

Interesting misunderstanding of "stale bread" on your side of the pond.
You let the rolls (or bread) get stale enough for easy cubing without
creating a lot of crumbs.
Then you dry the cubes in the oven.

Not sure how you define staleness, but it's not merely dryness.
It's a change (I would say a decline) in quality that usually takes
many days to occur, but can happen faster with some bread
(French breads in particular).

Steve

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:54:20 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Steve Pope) said:

BTW, the James Beard recipe I have says to use only butter
for moisture. Classic Beard.

Steve

Yeah, in mine it is either schmaltz or butter. The only moisture.
Inside the bird, it picks up the fat and juices from the bird.

Christine

Christine Dabney said:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:45:49 -0400, "cybercat" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Christine--it is the bird juice you are missing outside the bird! Try
a bit of your homemade stock. You don't need a lot. I definitely
can't see eggs in stuffing. Cover the casserole, and it will be moist
and great.

Quoted message said:

This is what I have tried before.. what others suggested. It is either
pasty, gummy, or too dry...or the top gets hard, and the inside stays
TOO soggy, or a whole range of things. I usually use turkey broth,
that I have made before the big day.

What are you baking it in? Something reasonable like a
Le Cruset is necessary. Also the temperature within a roasting
turkey cavity is seldom going to be over 200 F, so that should be
your guide for oven temperature for baking stuffing.

I normally bake stuffing for about an hour, swap it out of
oven for the turkey, and keep the stuffing barely warm on
a burner until the turkey is ready. Obviously, having two
ovens would be ideal, but I don't. 😉

Steve

The message <[email hidden]>
from Ken Knecht <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Any minute now it will be Thanksgiving Day. I have a piece of smoked
turkey in the freezer I'd like to prepare for my meal that day. However,
I love dressing (or stuffing if you prefer) and usually roast a whole
chicken for that reason.

Quoted message said:

In spite of several attempts, I've never been able to prepare decent
stuffing without putting it in a bird. I find the stovetop brands
inedible. I know the ingredients, but can anyone tell me a surefire
technique from preparing stuffing outside the bird?

As Steve says, make it fresh; it's quick and easy and tastes far
suoerior to any ready made or packet .

If I'm not going to cook it in the bird, I spread the stuffing evenly
in a suitable shallow dish, dot with butter, cover in foil and bake in a
hot oven; take the foil off for the last 15 minutes.

Janet

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:04:15 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Steve Pope) said:

What are you baking it in? Something reasonable like a
Le Cruset is necessary.

I have used Le Crueset, I have used regular casseroles, such as pyrex,
corning ware, etc. The Le Crueset seems to lean towards the
overcooked type..ie, burning. 😉 At least that has been my problem
in the past.

Also the temperature within a roasting

Quoted message said:

turkey cavity is seldom going to be over 200 F, so that should be
your guide for oven temperature for baking stuffing.

Now, that is an idea. I usually put it in the same temp oven as the
turkey...but I will have to try this.... How do you think 250 would
work? I think the oven temp needs to be above boiling...I seem to
have read that somewhere. But then again, 200 degrees here at this
altitude might be above boiling point. LOL.

Quoted message said:

I normally bake stuffing for about an hour, swap it out of
oven for the turkey, and keep the stuffing barely warm on
a burner until the turkey is ready. Obviously, having two
ovens would be ideal, but I don't. 😉

I only have one oven too.

Christine

"Ken Knecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any minute now it will be Thanksgiving Day. I have a piece of smoked
turkey in the freezer I'd like to prepare for my meal that day. However,
I love dressing (or stuffing if you prefer) and usually roast a whole
chicken for that reason.

In spite of several attempts, I've never been able to prepare decent
stuffing without putting it in a bird. I find the stovetop brands
inedible. I know the ingredients, but can anyone tell me a surefire
technique from preparing stuffing outside the bird? I'd certainly make it
more often if I knew how.

TIA

I make a darn good stuffing in a clay pot. I soak the pot in water before
using.

Steve Pope schrieb

Quoted message said:

Michael Kuettner said:

Interesting misunderstanding of "stale bread" on your side of the pond.
You let the rolls (or bread) get stale enough for easy cubing without
creating a lot of crumbs.
Then you dry the cubes in the oven.

Not sure how you define staleness, but it's not merely dryness.
It's a change (I would say a decline) in quality that usually takes
many days to occur, but can happen faster with some bread
(French breads in particular).

Staleness isn't dryness. See above. You want a "spongy" feel to
the rolls (or French bread).
If it would be dry, you'd create a lot of crumbs again.

Dry rolls are made into bread crumbs (by grinding them) over
here. It's called "Semmelbröseln".

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:10:05 GMT, "Knit Chic" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I make a darn good stuffing in a clay pot. I soak the pot in water before
using.

Hmm..another interesting idea. I might have to get a clay
pot/roaster......

Christine

"Christine Dabney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Boron Elgar said:

Use a sort of savory bread pudding for stuffing...I posted it here 2
years ago....

Quoted message said:

This was my grandmother's and mother's way of making stuffing and I
have never used exact measurements, as I leaned by sight and feel as I
grew up. I hope it can be "translated" this way. I do believe in the
early years, my grandmother used schmaltz instead of Wishbone!

The thing is, while yours sounds really good too, I really do like my
stuffing. I just want to be able to make a larger portion of it, and
have it cooked nicely outside the bird, in a casserole.

Is there a way to do that, without tampering with it too much? I
don't want eggs in my stuffing, and I prefer not to add much broth...
I really have always liked the flavor of this one.... Plus, it just
says home and memories to me.

Christine

How about putting your dressing in the casserole dish and covering the
dressing with turkey neck and some extra bits and pieces that you can pick
up at the grocery store. Maybe a couple wings, more neck and so forth.
Then cover the casserole and bake. That should give almost the same result
as cooking the dressing in the bird. The only issue that I have found with
this method is that you may have to fiddle with the liquid amounts. The
dressing in the casserole dish may be a bit dryer and you may have to add a
little broth along the way. I always pick up more neck and wings just so
that I can have broth to make enough gravy.
Janet

Peter A said:

For what it's worth, "stuffing" is cooked inside something (stuffed)
while dressing is cooked on its own.

According to Helen Brown, originally "stuffing" was what you
fed the bird *before* killing it, anything cooked afterwards
was "dressing".

Obviously word usage has since changed.

Steve

Christine Dabney <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:10:05 GMT, "Knit Chic" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I make a darn good stuffing in a clay pot. I soak the pot in water
before using.

Hmm..another interesting idea. I might have to get a clay
pot/roaster......

Christine

So...how do you cook your stuffing? Covered, uncovered? As long as the
bird or the last 30 minutes or so? What's in your stuffing?

Some additional moisture and fat needs to be added...to replace what
comes from the bird also it's got to be covered at least for some of the
cooking time to help keep it moist.

If you are going to do a test batch out of the bird you need to probably
cut back or reduce the recipe some so you don't get stuck eating too much
dressing in a row.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore

Christine Dabney said:

(Steve Pope) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Also the temperature within a roasting

Quoted message said:

turkey cavity is seldom going to be over 200 F, so that should be
your guide for oven temperature for baking stuffing.

Quoted message said:

Now, that is an idea. I usually put it in the same temp oven as the
turkey...but I will have to try this.... How do you think 250 would
work? I think the oven temp needs to be above boiling...I seem to
have read that somewhere. But then again, 200 degrees here at this
altitude might be above boiling point. LOL.

I personally think 250 would work better than the 325 that FDA
says to roast a turkey at. And it certainly does not need as many
hours in the oven as does a turkey at 325!

Like others here I like to uncover it 10-15 minutes to make the
top a little crispy, but this does not take a whole lot of heat.

I'm assuming you've completely cooked non-bread ingredients like
onion, celery, and sausage before composing the stuffing; and
that the stuffing before going in the oven is only slightly moister
than the desired final result. I'd say you don't want to endlessly
steam your bread or bread crumbs. In the turkey cavity, I would
guess it does not steam at all.

Steve

Christine Dabney <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:04:15 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Steve Pope) said:

What are you baking it in? Something reasonable like a
Le Cruset is necessary.

I have used Le Crueset, I have used regular casseroles, such as pyrex,
corning ware, etc. The Le Crueset seems to lean towards the
overcooked type..ie, burning. 😉 At least that has been my problem
in the past.

Also the temperature within a roasting

Quoted message said:

turkey cavity is seldom going to be over 200 F, so that should be
your guide for oven temperature for baking stuffing.

Now, that is an idea. I usually put it in the same temp oven as the
turkey...but I will have to try this.... How do you think 250 would
work? I think the oven temp needs to be above boiling...I seem to
have read that somewhere. But then again, 200 degrees here at this
altitude might be above boiling point. LOL.

Quoted message said:

I normally bake stuffing for about an hour, swap it out of
oven for the turkey, and keep the stuffing barely warm on
a burner until the turkey is ready. Obviously, having two
ovens would be ideal, but I don't. 😉

I only have one oven too.

Christine

I do mine in my microwave/convection oven at 350F cooking it only about
30 -35 minutes. In a lasagna type pan covered tightly by foil for most of
the cooking time (say 20 minutes).

When mixing up the stuffing I can tell by feel if more liquids are
needed....But it needs to be a touch soupier for outa the bird cooking
than for in the bird cooking, but just a touch.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore