Struck by Lightning?

meb said:

Robatoy said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Matt O'Toole said:

You're protected in a car because the metal forms a protective cage

around you

Best I tell that to my wife's Saturn.

You're still surrounded by a metal spaceframe underneath the
polyurethane.

even works with convertibles

---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Werehatrack said:

Marty said:

Don't listen to the experts, measure it yourself. I measured the
resistance of some carbon fibre strands and was suprised at how good a
conductor it was.

Quoted message said:

Epoxy resin, however, isn't. Having not tried to measure the point to
point surface or exposed-potential-interface conductivity of any
carbon frame, I don't know if there's a good, solid path there or not,
but I doubt that it's as effective in this area as steel or aluminum.

At the voltages lightning carries, the epoxy may as well not even be
there.

FWIW, back when we were designing the original Trek carbon fiber frame, we
found we had to put a fiberglass sheath inside the carbon tubes at the
joints to prevent electrolytic degradation of the aluminum lug. And this
was despite the epoxy in the joint.

--

John ([email hidden])

Quoted message said:

On 31 May 2005 19:25:20 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

Basically, the idea is to stay out of wet holes.

I assumed that the reason I'd be in the hole was that it was dry.

- Frank Krygowski

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 31 May 2005 19:25:20 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

Basically, the idea is to stay out of wet holes.

I assumed that the reason I'd be in the hole was that it was dry.

_ Wet or dry is meaningless, big currents in the sky mean big
currents in the ground. Putting a bag of salt water ( ie. you )
in the air gap between two highly charged plates is generally
not recommended for the continued existance of the bag of salt
water....

_ Booker C. Bense

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 31 May 2005 19:25:20 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

Basically, the idea is to stay out of wet holes.

I assumed that the reason I'd be in the hole was that it was dry.

- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

Imagine rain falling on the flat ground above the overhang
below and dripping down from the edge waterfall-style and
also running down the inside of the overhang wall.

It's actually the same principle as standing under a tree.
You'd think that the lightning would just pass harmlessly
down the convenient nearby stick, but it tends to jump out
and nail anything standing upright nearby.

The lightning below tends to strike on the lip of the wet
overhang. After it strikes, it can flash almost directly
from the curtain of water dripping a few feet from the nose
of our warm and dry bystander under the overhang, or take a
more circuitious path and flash out from the damp wall.

\
\
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/
\
\
\
/
\
/
/
!______________
\ / |
\ \ |
\ \|
/ /|
\ / |
\ |
/ |
\!/ |
O |
-||- |
________ /\ _|

A dry enough man-made cave or overhang with walls, windows,
and a comfortable armchair is good protection, but more
natural overhangs and caves tend to leave the hiker standing
right next to something that is wet (or at least dripping)
and is sticking up into the storm.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 31 May 2005 19:25:20 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

Basically, the idea is to stay out of wet holes.

I assumed that the reason I'd be in the hole was that it was dry.

- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

Imagine rain falling on the flat ground above the overhang
below and dripping down from the edge waterfall-style and
also running down the inside of the overhang wall.

It's actually the same principle as standing under a tree.
You'd think that the lightning would just pass harmlessly
down the convenient nearby stick, but it tends to jump out
and nail anything standing upright nearby.

The lightning below tends to strike on the lip of the wet
overhang. After it strikes, it can flash almost directly
from the curtain of water dripping a few feet from the nose
of our warm and dry bystander under the overhang, or take a
more circuitious path and flash out from the damp wall.

Hmm. I don't recall ever seeing a cave configured like your sketch.
The flat roof variety seem to be vanishingly rare around here! But
then, perhaps you have much more experience in caves than I do.

I suppose the appropriate response is: Oh well.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> On 31 May 2005 19:25:20 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:
>
> Basically, the idea is to stay out of wet holes.

I assumed that the reason I'd be in the hole was that it was dry.

- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

Imagine rain falling on the flat ground above the overhang
below and dripping down from the edge waterfall-style and
also running down the inside of the overhang wall.

It's actually the same principle as standing under a tree.
You'd think that the lightning would just pass harmlessly
down the convenient nearby stick, but it tends to jump out
and nail anything standing upright nearby.

The lightning below tends to strike on the lip of the wet
overhang. After it strikes, it can flash almost directly
from the curtain of water dripping a few feet from the nose
of our warm and dry bystander under the overhang, or take a
more circuitious path and flash out from the damp wall.

Hmm. I don't recall ever seeing a cave configured like your sketch.
The flat roof variety seem to be vanishingly rare around here! But
then, perhaps you have much more experience in caves than I do.

I suppose the appropriate response is: Oh well.

- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

"It is a -- most -- provoking -- thing," he said at last,
"when a person doesn't know a cravat from a belt!"

\
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/
\
/
/
!______________
\ / |
\ \ |
\ \|
/ /|
\ / |
\ |
/ |
\!/ |
O |
-||- |
________ /\ _|

The priceless ASCII artwork above depicts an overhang.

H. Dumpty

i was in the vicinty of stikes hmmmm lets say three years worth and
aside from "incidents" sought out strikes when in college
the big deal is "what is the earth doing underv your feet" during a
storm.
I'm not sure one can tell but maybe on inquiry one can.
that is lightning may go right past you raising the hair a bit with a
brief shock and not flow thru you ground up
or you get it full force ground up.

sw fla has a fantastic phenomena with multi strikes and cell towers at
250'
i lived near one doing burd research in a wiolderness area atop a
bay-the tidal zone was a few feet away, the ground plastic.
lightning, storm king in second, comes from ten miles away tunneling
through low clouds in a flash of colorful incandescence to hit the
tower. the tower lights up as a flourescent tube! rumbleruymblerumble
ten pins plus.

moral-the high point protects!

what amazed was standing nearby watching this-i saw lightning come out
of the sky to the nearby sewage plant dome ojn my right, flow a hundred
feet off the ground, veer upward and cross the open field to the tower
1/2 mile south to my left: only a tingle and mild shock.

Sheldon Brown said:

how much risk is there of being struck by
lightning while cycling?

LoL! Haven't posted here in a while since I broke my wrist... but I'm
wondering why this thread hasn't turned into a frame material rant. :P

Wouldn't steel frames be more dangerous conductors and plastic bikes be
considered safer t-storm rides?

And the tinfoil helmet crowd, they're just asking for it. Tzzzzt.

😄

maxo said:

Sheldon Brown said:

how much risk is there of being struck by
lightning while cycling?

LoL! Haven't posted here in a while since I broke my wrist... but I'm
wondering why this thread hasn't turned into a frame material rant. :P

I believe it sparked a few comments.

:-P yourself!

"maxo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

LoL! Haven't posted here in a while since I broke my wrist... but I'm
wondering why this thread hasn't turned into a frame material rant. :P

The material of the frame doesn't matter.

The thing is if you're laying out on one of those damn
recumbent contraptions and get hit by lighting then it's
is always 100% fatal, no survival rate for bent vs lighting
strike.

Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:32:51 GMT, <Tr9pe.1588437$Xk.202463@pd7tw3no>,
Prince "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email hidden]> decreed:

Quoted message said:

The thing is if you're laying out on one of those damn
recumbent contraptions and get hit by lighting then it's
is always 100% fatal, no survival rate for bent vs lighting
strike.

Don't say that like it's a bad thing.

Mercifully they've often got those attractive little lightening rods
sticking up thereby sparing the rider further unnecessary humiliation.
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:32:51 GMT, <Tr9pe.1588437$Xk.202463@pd7tw3no>,
Prince "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email hidden]> decreed:

Quoted message said:

The thing is if you're laying out on one of those damn
recumbent contraptions and get hit by lighting then it's
is always 100% fatal, no survival rate for bent vs lighting
strike.

Don't say that like it's a bad thing.

Mercifully they've often got those attractive little lightening rods
sticking up thereby sparing the rider further unnecessary humiliation.

OTOH, maybe they can outrun the lightning bolt.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

The material of the frame doesn't matter.

The thing is if you're laying out on one of those damn
recumbent contraptions and get hit by lighting then it's
is always 100% fatal, no survival rate for bent vs lighting
strike.

Absolutely. Being struck on the head by a street light is almost invariably
fatal.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
You can't have ham!

Another lightning story
I was jogging at Wright's Landing on the Apalachicola River's eats
bank when a low black cloud roiled across the river toward me and the
pine plantation of 6" diameter pines to my right and north.

I stood watching this and evaluated the situation as critical-the cloud
seemed near tornadic. That is the story. I stood watching. I shoul;d
not have stood watching at least given the knowledge of potential
tornado activity I should at least kneel and I did not.

The plantations rows ran n-s.

ZZZZZZZZZnnnickckkk BLAMMO! One strike about hmmm 6" across about
hmmmmmmm ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZNNNNNNNIIIIIIccccckkk
BLAMMO! Two strikes

Both strikes about hmmm 175' the first, the second 250' both into
6" pines.

Kneel. Lay down.

But - at Daytonah down at Ponce's Inlet. The vast line opf storm
clouds that lies west over the swamp about 8-9-10m miles inland blew
east across the sandspit and opver the light tower. Blammo blammo
blammo-a good 30 minutes worth. I hid in the dunes. But when I came out
I found the beach crawling with beached Hobe sailors nonchalantly
standing around blammo blammo blammo completely unconcerned by the
strikes into the tower.

That's a different perspective-sailing v. jogging at wright's
landing. I'm told the lightning goes zzziccck down the mast and into
the water!

But, like swimming with wild dolphins after getting a good look at
their mouths no matter how friendly they are; I once stood near a
strike definitely coming out of the water for no apparent reason about
150' off a dock I stood on with a fairly tall hailer-lookout tower a
few feet from me. Verrrrryy impressive deadly. zzzzniiiccckkkkkblammmo!

Luck of the draw

does movement-wet rubber over wet amacite-generation of static
electricity going to ground-have a bearing here? or does a wet tire
generate anything on wet pavement?

oh god-i readcwhere brownie doesn't want to hearabout this.
good grief. anyway-here in cat country, it lightnings constantantly but
never herd of a cyclists getting killed. golfers left and right but you
know golfers, right?
ask laura hallam

[email hidden]
"Laura Hallam" <[email hidden]>
FBA News

Quoted message said:

Another lightning story
I was jogging at Wright's Landing on the Apalachicola River's eats
bank when a low black cloud roiled across the river toward me and the
pine plantation of 6" diameter pines to my right and north.

I stood watching this and evaluated the situation as critical-the cloud
seemed near tornadic. That is the story. I stood watching. I shoul;d
not have stood watching at least given the knowledge of potential
tornado activity I should at least kneel and I did not.

The plantations rows ran n-s.

ZZZZZZZZZnnnickckkk BLAMMO! One strike about hmmm 6" across about
hmmmmmmm ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZNNNNNNNIIIIIIccccckkk
BLAMMO! Two strikes

Both strikes about hmmm 175' the first, the second 250' both into
6" pines.

Kneel. Lay down.

I lived for a while in Minnesota and they gave out a warning that if you
felt the ZZZZZZZnnniiick efecct and your hair started going up on end
that yes you were the target and to drop to the ground, mud or not. It
was "To hell with the cloths, I don't want to get hit.". It happened to
me once, when I was dumb enough to go out into a field to watch the far
off thunderstorm (which wasn't really that far). I dropped into the mud
and the lightning hit a tree about 20 feet away. The wife made sure to
give me the 'stupid' lecture when I got back to the house. Another time
I got stuck on a lake in Wisconsin when I was about 12 and one of those
five minute "Drive by" storms hit and all I could do was lay one the
bottom of the boat (aluminum) and not be the highest thing on the lake.
Fortunately all the strikes were on trees on the shore, but I did row
back rattled. Later that night another one blew in and there were some
hits on the water, big ones that sounded like a big bomb going off. I
though of going to look for electrocuted fish floating after the storm
but my dad put the stoppers on that one.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

But - at Daytonah down at Ponce's Inlet. The vast line opf storm
clouds that lies west over the swamp about 8-9-10m miles inland blew
east across the sandspit and opver the light tower. Blammo blammo
blammo-a good 30 minutes worth. I hid in the dunes. But when I came out
I found the beach crawling with beached Hobe sailors nonchalantly
standing around blammo blammo blammo completely unconcerned by the
strikes into the tower.

That's a different perspective-sailing v. jogging at wright's
landing. I'm told the lightning goes zzziccck down the mast and into
the water!

But, like swimming with wild dolphins after getting a good look at
their mouths no matter how friendly they are; I once stood near a
strike definitely coming out of the water for no apparent reason about
150' off a dock I stood on with a fairly tall hailer-lookout tower a
few feet from me. Verrrrryy impressive deadly. zzzzniiiccckkkkkblammmo!

Luck of the draw

does movement-wet rubber over wet amacite-generation of static
electricity going to ground-have a bearing here? or does a wet tire
generate anything on wet pavement?

NPR ran a story on this morning-lighning deaths fell dramatically with
the demographic change from usa farm life to usa suburb-city life-from
over a hundred a year to few (golfers-farmers-fishermen)
so the bike riding along passages sided with poles and trees is safe
enough.
the NOAA poeple tell us that 'kneel' is incorrect
CROUCH!

Quoted message said:

the NOAA poeple tell us that 'kneel' is incorrect
CROUCH!

Correct! You want to minimize the area of contact with the ground.
Basic in every wilderness first aid course.

i'll jump on it!