Stripped Miyata hub threads

Sorry to hear about your hub. I felt bad enough when the stud on a
really cheap hub broke. Though there is always that element of
perverse joy in knowing you're enough of a badass to break things...

Anyway, do you know any machinists that owe you a favor? I'm thinking
you could cut off the studs, then bore and tap holes for use with crank
bolts.

Ken

Will the whole wheel fit under a mill?

--
Evan Byrne - I Bc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Byrne's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/9367
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

Will the whole wheel fit under a mill?

--
Evan Byrne - I Bc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Byrne's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/9367
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

Ken Cline said:

Sorry to hear about your hub. I felt bad enough when the stud on a
really cheap hub broke. Though there is always that element of
perverse joy in knowing you're enough of a badass to break things...

Anyway, do you know any machinists that owe you a favor? I'm
thinking
you could cut off the studs, then bore and tap holes for use with
crank
bolts.

Ken

I did this recently with a stock Coker hub with moderate success;
delaced the wheel (noting the position of each spoke), chucked it in a
lathe, cut the remaining threads off, and drilled it in the lathe. I was
then able to tap it with the special 8mm x 1.0mm "fine" thread tap that
bolt-type bicycle spindles use (available from biketoolsetc.com). The
wheel hasn't been ridden yet, so I'm not sure how it is going to hold
up. My concern is that it IS possible to do this with the cheaper hubs
(like the stock Coker hub) because the metal is soft, but the results
won't last because the metal is soft. With a higher-quality hub the
spindle may be hard enough that it is difficult or just plain impossible
to tap.

--
adelman - What mud?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
adelman's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/9329
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

I have one that looks exactly like that on a Sueze hub on my secondary
Muni. I got mine used and don't know the history of it. I was able to
drill out the crank so the nut could go down onto the lower few threads
as a temporary fix. I'm currently looking for a used splined hub or
might just go with a UDC. Mine looked as though it was loctited. I
wonder if that is a problem?

--
pdc - Unicycling Lord of Lookout Mountain

"What doesn't kill you strengthens you, what kills you strengthens your
mother"

------------------------------------------------------------------------
pdc's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/8160
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

John,

I have a widened Suzue here that someone gave me, with the same stripped
thread problem. I don't know how it was treated as far as torque,
Locktitie, etc. so can't speculate much on why it stripped. I plan to
attempt to repair it, but haven't decided which approach yet, and have
been too busy with other things to do it. As for cutting the stud off
and drilling and tapping, the shaft seems to be very hard as it did not
mark with a file. That being the case it would probably have to be
annealed to do the repair, then re-tempered to get the strength back.
I think a more practical fix may be to TIG weld just enough material
onto the threads to be able to file it back to the proper OD and
re-thread it with a die. This could possibly be done without breaking
down the wheel build, and the heat should be low enough and concentrated
enough to not ruin the temper of the rest of the hub. Using heat sink
clay or clamping aluminum bars to the square taper can help save the
temper also.
Considering the cost involved in replacing the hub, it may be worth
attempting it, and all you have to lose is what the welder charges.

I will go ahead and attempt the fix on this hub and let you know how it
goes. That is better than experimenting on your built wheel.

Scott

--
S_Wallis - MUni-motivated, Distance-curious

"I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn
how to do it." Pablo Picasso
------------------------------------------------------------------------
S_Wallis's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/1520
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

S_Wallis said:

*As for the Locktite, I completely understand why people use it but...
It is my thinking that on something where you will be disassembling
it regularly (like I do to swap cranks) OR will be re-torgueing
regularly to take up looseness (as in square taper "settling in"😉 that
you are better off with antiseize on the threads.*

With the Loctite I never re-torque the crank nuts just to see if they're
still tight. I leave them be. They stay tight and stay in place. I've
also never had a loose crank since Loctiting the crank nuts. Tighten
once and let them be.

I don't change the cranks on the Coker very often. Most of the time I
keep the 140's on it. A few times during the year I'll swap to the
170's and leave them on for a while then switch back to the 140's.

The broken threads are actually where the nut is when I'm using the
140's. With the 170's the nut is bottomed out on the threads. Maybe
there is something about the 140 mm cranks that caused problems.
They're old steel 140's from my old Schwinn.

The Suzue hubs are hardened quite well. It's not going to be machinable
while it's hardened. That hardness is also what makes the threads so
brittle. If the hub didn't get hardened correctly it could cause the
threads to be more brittle than they should be. There's a lot of
variables in heat treating and no guarantee that it will always happen
to the desired properties.

My current plan right now is to unbuild the wheel and carefully mark
each spoke where it was in the hub. That way if I get the hub repaired
or get another widened Suzue I'll be able to put the old spokes on in
the same relative locations. I'm still undecided whether to go with
another TUF hub or go with the UDC hub.

On the plus side, the muni ride was great. I only thought about my
broken Coker hub a few times during the ride and that was only because I
was trying not to think about it. I had one of my fastest rides up the
climb and passed four bikes going up. They weren't the most fit
cyclists (mom, dad, and two kids) but they did get a good head start on
me.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Gallery: '' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs)
' Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3) >>>'Click Me'
(http://tinyurl.com/7lvbu)<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

S_Wallis said:

*As for the Locktite, I completely understand why people use it but...
It is my thinking that on something where you will be disassembling
it regularly (like I do to swap cranks) OR will be re-torgueing
regularly to take up looseness (as in square taper "settling in"😉 that
you are better off with antiseize on the threads.*

With the Loctite I never re-torque the crank nuts just to see if they're
still tight. I leave them be. They stay tight and stay in place. I've
also never had a loose crank since Loctiting the crank nuts. Tighten
once and let them be.

I don't change the cranks on the Coker very often. Most of the time I
keep the 140's on it. A few times during the year I'll swap to the
170's and leave them on for a while then switch back to the 140's.

The broken threads are actually where the nut is when I'm using the
140's. With the 170's the nut is bottomed out on the threads. Maybe
there is something about the 140 mm cranks that caused problems.
They're old steel 140's from my old Schwinn.

The Suzue hubs are hardened quite well. It's not going to be machinable
while it's hardened. That hardness is also what makes the threads so
brittle. If the hub didn't get hardened correctly it could cause the
threads to be more brittle than they should be. There's a lot of
variables in heat treating and no guarantee that it will always happen
to the desired properties.

My current plan right now is to unbuild the wheel and carefully mark
each spoke where it was in the hub. That way if I get the hub repaired
or get another widened Suzue I'll be able to put the old spokes on in
the same relative locations. I'm still undecided whether to go with
another TUF hub or go with the UDC hub.

On the plus side, the muni ride was great. I only thought about my
broken Coker hub a few times during the ride and that was only because I
was trying not to think about it. I had one of my fastest rides up the
climb and passed four bikes going up. They weren't the most fit
cyclists (mom, dad, and two kids) but they did get a good head start on
me.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Gallery: '' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs)
' Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3) >>>'Click Me'
(http://tinyurl.com/7lvbu)<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

S_Wallis said:

*As for the Locktite, I completely understand why people use it but...
It is my thinking that on something where you will be disassembling
it regularly (like I do to swap cranks) OR will be re-torgueing
regularly to take up looseness (as in square taper "settling in"😉 that
you are better off with antiseize on the threads.*

With the Loctite I never re-torque the crank nuts just to see if they're
still tight. I leave them be. They stay tight and stay in place. I've
also never had a loose crank since Loctiting the crank nuts. Tighten
once and let them be.

I don't change the cranks on the Coker very often. Most of the time I
keep the 140's on it. A few times during the year I'll swap to the
170's and leave them on for a while then switch back to the 140's.

The broken threads are actually where the nut is when I'm using the
140's. With the 170's the nut is bottomed out on the threads. Maybe
there is something about the 140 mm cranks that caused problems.
They're old steel 140's from my old Schwinn.

The Suzue hubs are hardened quite well. It's not going to be machinable
while it's hardened. That hardness is also what makes the threads so
brittle. If the hub didn't get hardened correctly it could cause the
threads to be more brittle than they should be. There's a lot of
variables in heat treating and no guarantee that it will always happen
to the desired properties.

My current plan right now is to unbuild the wheel and carefully mark
each spoke where it was in the hub. That way if I get the hub repaired
or get another widened Suzue I'll be able to put the old spokes on in
the same relative locations. I'm still undecided whether to go with
another TUF hub or go with the UDC hub.

On the plus side, the muni ride was great. I only thought about my
broken Coker hub a few times during the ride and that was only because I
was trying not to think about it. I had one of my fastest rides up the
climb and passed four bikes going up. They weren't the most fit
cyclists (mom, dad, and two kids) but they did get a good head start on
me.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Gallery: '' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs)
' Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3) >>>'Click Me'
(http://tinyurl.com/7lvbu)<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

S_Wallis said:

*As for the Locktite, I completely understand why people use it but...
It is my thinking that on something where you will be disassembling
it regularly (like I do to swap cranks) OR will be re-torgueing
regularly to take up looseness (as in square taper "settling in"😉 that
you are better off with antiseize on the threads.*

With the Loctite I never re-torque the crank nuts just to see if they're
still tight. I leave them be. They stay tight and stay in place. I've
also never had a loose crank since Loctiting the crank nuts. Tighten
once and let them be.

I don't change the cranks on the Coker very often. Most of the time I
keep the 140's on it. A few times during the year I'll swap to the
170's and leave them on for a while then switch back to the 140's.

The broken threads are actually where the nut is when I'm using the
140's. With the 170's the nut is bottomed out on the threads. Maybe
there is something about the 140 mm cranks that caused problems.
They're old steel 140's from my old Schwinn.

The Suzue hubs are hardened quite well. It's not going to be machinable
while it's hardened. That hardness is also what makes the threads so
brittle. If the hub didn't get hardened correctly it could cause the
threads to be more brittle than they should be. There's a lot of
variables in heat treating and no guarantee that it will always happen
to the desired properties.

My current plan right now is to unbuild the wheel and carefully mark
each spoke where it was in the hub. That way if I get the hub repaired
or get another widened Suzue I'll be able to put the old spokes on in
the same relative locations. I'm still undecided whether to go with
another TUF hub or go with the UDC hub.

On the plus side, the muni ride was great. I only thought about my
broken Coker hub a few times during the ride and that was only because I
was trying not to think about it. I had one of my fastest rides up the
climb and passed four bikes going up. They weren't the most fit
cyclists (mom, dad, and two kids) but they did get a good head start on
me.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Gallery: '' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs)
' Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3) >>>'Click Me'
(http://tinyurl.com/7lvbu)<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

S_Wallis said:

*As for the Locktite, I completely understand why people use it but...
It is my thinking that on something where you will be disassembling
it regularly (like I do to swap cranks) OR will be re-torgueing
regularly to take up looseness (as in square taper "settling in"😉 that
you are better off with antiseize on the threads.*

With the Loctite I never re-torque the crank nuts just to see if they're
still tight. I leave them be. They stay tight and stay in place. I've
also never had a loose crank since Loctiting the crank nuts. Tighten
once and let them be.

I don't change the cranks on the Coker very often. Most of the time I
keep the 140's on it. A few times during the year I'll swap to the
170's and leave them on for a while then switch back to the 140's.

The broken threads are actually where the nut is when I'm using the
140's. With the 170's the nut is bottomed out on the threads. Maybe
there is something about the 140 mm cranks that caused problems.
They're old steel 140's from my old Schwinn.

The Suzue hubs are hardened quite well. It's not going to be machinable
while it's hardened. That hardness is also what makes the threads so
brittle. If the hub didn't get hardened correctly it could cause the
threads to be more brittle than they should be. There's a lot of
variables in heat treating and no guarantee that it will always happen
to the desired properties.

My current plan right now is to unbuild the wheel and carefully mark
each spoke where it was in the hub. That way if I get the hub repaired
or get another widened Suzue I'll be able to put the old spokes on in
the same relative locations. I'm still undecided whether to go with
another TUF hub or go with the UDC hub.

On the plus side, the muni ride was great. I only thought about my
broken Coker hub a few times during the ride and that was only because I
was trying not to think about it. I had one of my fastest rides up the
climb and passed four bikes going up. They weren't the most fit
cyclists (mom, dad, and two kids) but they did get a good head start on
me.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Gallery: '' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs)
' Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3) >>>'Click Me'
(http://tinyurl.com/7lvbu)<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

S_Wallis said:

*As for the Locktite, I completely understand why people use it but...
It is my thinking that on something where you will be disassembling
it regularly (like I do to swap cranks) OR will be re-torgueing
regularly to take up looseness (as in square taper "settling in"😉 that
you are better off with antiseize on the threads.*

With the Loctite I never re-torque the crank nuts just to see if they're
still tight. I leave them be. They stay tight and stay in place. I've
also never had a loose crank since Loctiting the crank nuts. Tighten
once and let them be.

I don't change the cranks on the Coker very often. Most of the time I
keep the 140's on it. A few times during the year I'll swap to the
170's and leave them on for a while then switch back to the 140's.

The broken threads are actually where the nut is when I'm using the
140's. With the 170's the nut is bottomed out on the threads. Maybe
there is something about the 140 mm cranks that caused problems.
They're old steel 140's from my old Schwinn.

The Suzue hubs are hardened quite well. It's not going to be machinable
while it's hardened. That hardness is also what makes the threads so
brittle. If the hub didn't get hardened correctly it could cause the
threads to be more brittle than they should be. There's a lot of
variables in heat treating and no guarantee that it will always happen
to the desired properties.

My current plan right now is to unbuild the wheel and carefully mark
each spoke where it was in the hub. That way if I get the hub repaired
or get another widened Suzue I'll be able to put the old spokes on in
the same relative locations. I'm still undecided whether to go with
another TUF hub or go with the UDC hub.

On the plus side, the muni ride was great. I only thought about my
broken Coker hub a few times during the ride and that was only because I
was trying not to think about it. I had one of my fastest rides up the
climb and passed four bikes going up. They weren't the most fit
cyclists (mom, dad, and two kids) but they did get a good head start on
me.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Gallery: '' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs)
' Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3) >>>'Click Me'
(http://tinyurl.com/7lvbu)<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

We tryed putting black widows on my coker. It didnt work at all. Their
holes are to big I guess and just go right down the taper. It was hard
to not make them hit the frame. We just gave up on them.

I use the super wide UDC hub. I like it a lot. I used to have the stock
guy on there I think the suzue I wasnt a fan of. I was able to use the
same spokes too. The rebuild really isnt that hard. Just get a friend to
put the nipples on and work from the hub and you got it spoked in no
time. Trueing it isnt even that hard either.

--
Tim - Amanda's the sexiest avatar

Tim 'Braun' (http://www.tim.com.mk/izdanija/1/189.jpg)

mmm sponsored by Arrow Racing good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4671
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

We tryed putting black widows on my coker. It didnt work at all. Their
holes are to big I guess and just go right down the taper. It was hard
to not make them hit the frame. We just gave up on them.

I use the super wide UDC hub. I like it a lot. I used to have the stock
guy on there I think the suzue I wasnt a fan of. I was able to use the
same spokes too. The rebuild really isnt that hard. Just get a friend to
put the nipples on and work from the hub and you got it spoked in no
time. Trueing it isnt even that hard either.

--
Tim - Amanda's the sexiest avatar

Tim 'Braun' (http://www.tim.com.mk/izdanija/1/189.jpg)

mmm sponsored by Arrow Racing good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4671
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

Tim said:

*We tryed putting black widows on my coker. It didnt work at all.
Their holes are to big I guess and just go right down the taper. It
was hard to not make them hit the frame. We just gave up on them.

I use the super wide UDC hub. I like it a lot. I used to have the
stock guy on there I think the suzue I wasnt a fan of. I was able to
use the same spokes too. The rebuild really isnt that hard. Just get a
friend to put the nipples on and work from the hub and you got it
spoked in no time. Trueing it isnt even that hard either. *

Have you tried the Black Widows on the UDC hub or were you using the
stock hub at the time?

The problem with using the old spokes on a UDC hub is that the spokes
have already been stressed and bent to fit the geometry of The Uunicycle
Factory widened Miyata hub. Even though the UDC hub will take the same
length of spokes the UDC hub will not have the same geometry and the
same shape and angle of the spoke holes. The old spokes would not be
happy in a different hub. The spokes may break due to the new stress.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Gallery: '' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs)
' Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3) >>>'Click Me'
(http://tinyurl.com/7lvbu)<<<
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

S_Wallis said:

*I think a more practical fix may be to TIG weld just enough material
onto the threads to be able to file it back to the proper OD and
re-thread it with a die.
Scott *

Brilliant!

--
ChangingLINKS.com - member

Wishing you Happiness, Joy and Laughter,
Drew Brown
'Changing LINKS' (http://www.ChangingLINKS.com)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ChangingLINKS.com's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5468
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

john_childs said:

*

I went to change the cranks on my Coker yesterday and made the very
unfortunate discovery that the threads on the hub had stripped. The
hub is DOA. *

I have had this happen to three square taper hubs in the past 4 or 5
months. The first to go was the Suzue hub in my muni, closely followed
by the Suzue hub in my freestyle uni. These hubs were almost the same
age and lasted three years with a lot of use. I came to the conclusion
that the Suzue had reached the ends of their lifetimes and had gotten
old and worn out.

That conclusion changed when the same thing happened to my 29er's hub.
This hub was a prototype UDC hub, less than a year old and hadn't had
much use. I now believe the biggest cause in the failure of these hubs
was the way I mounted cranks on them. Instead of using a mallet to seat
the crank on the taper, I used a pedal/crank tool to torque up the crank
nut. I believe this unnecessarily stressed the axle threads and
contributed to their failure. The moral of the story is to use your
mallet, folks!

--
TonyMelton - Cloud 9

The way to a man's heart is through his veins.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
TonyMelton's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/2118
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

TonyMelton said:

* The moral of the story is to use your mallet, folks! *

Tony Melton using a mallet.

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Attachment filename: mallet.jpeg |
|Download attachment: http://www.unicyclist.com/attachment/346498|
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

--
harper - TANKED at GASWORKS

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

"Never ride backwards up a rocky mountain road because the things that
will trip you if you see them will also trip you if you don't. " -
munipsycho
------------------------------------------------------------------------
harper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447

Sorry to hear about your hub, John.

It sounds as though the combination of red loctite and ill-fitting
cranks did the trick. Red loctite is designed to be a permanent fixing
and removed with heating with a blowtorch. In addition, the assembly is
not designed to have the nut pushing against a fixed hard obstacle like
the end of the threads. A properly fitting assembly will involve a
tight, yet somewhat flexible connection that allows the connection to
"breathe", as it were, under stress. In your scenario, there was no
give-and-take in the threads, so I surmise that the forces probably
exceeded the 40 ft-lbs considerably. Proper assembly and component
choice removes most of the problems associated with this type of hub.
In your case, it sounds like the Black Widows are proving not to be a
good choice for unicycling cranks. Thanks for the information.
Although I did not in your case, I, for one, will not recommend them to
future customers.

Otherwise, it sounds like your practice of torquing on the crank to spec
was the proper approach and a good habit. Don't abandon that!

The widened Suzue hub is the best wide hub currently available, in my
humble opinion. It has a thicker hollow axle and carefully tuned
bearing surfaces. It isn't powder-coated, which makes any developing
rust immediately evident, and treatable. With proper treatment the hub
will last a long time. And it has been extensively tested under extreme
conditions.

Of course, under these conditions, some are bound to fail. 24 hour
off-road racing is an extreme condition for any cycling component. One
of the top area mountain bike racers being serviced by our bike shop
would bring his bike in after every weekend race for a tune-up and
component replacement.

The UDC hub seems to be a reasonable lower-cost alternative. A close
look will show rough workmanship, poorly machined spoke holes, and an
odd bearing size. Moreover, it is powder-coated, and has shown to hide
rust that can compromise the unit's strength. Yet the hub is
substantially less in cost. The customer's riding needs and budget
should determine the choice of hub.

Other, better, designs are in the works, and hopefully someday we will
see them on the market. Until then, what we have now is still far
better than what we had five years ago.

LiveWire customers will find that, should they follow 'the correct
mounting procedures' (http://tinyurl.com/blcbl) , their wheel is
warranteed for this type of damage.

--
U-Turn - Cool water for the flame

Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
U-Turn's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/691
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/42447