Strength training at home

[kopride]

Did a good old fashioned powerlifting workout last night. Deadlifts, Squats, Benches. I think that I have some pretty good estimates of what my max DL is based upon trying to find about 85% of max. My son hung with me on the deadlifts but his 85% squat is only about 200 so he has work to do there. I am not going to say what my max DL is right now, but I will tell you that I need to get more Olympic plates before my next workout. My technique is also super rusty so I should pick up another 15% once I get it down--I lifted conventional and didn't fool around with a sumo lift. I'm also lifting without a belt which I woudl want to have If I am really going to do a max lift. (My squat is still ok and I think with a little work I might hit 300 there as well. --need to get used to piling all that weight on my back). In any event, it is a good challenge and we will have to see.

I still think my challenge is trying to get to 300 Watts. The DL (and squats) will take more of a toll on cycling than vice versa. These are very achievable goals even at a bodyweight weight closer to 175 pounds. I don't think you need to put that kind of weight on to DL 300.

Now, all we need is Felt to sign on and agree to these gentlemanly terms and jump aboard.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Now, all we need is Felt to sign on and agree to these gentlemanly terms and jump aboard.

I'll think I will sit this one out, but I am enjoying the discussion

I have my sights set on a different goal (May 2009) at the moment and I will be starting first of January. Besides, my body is just too beat up to lift that heavy anymore. Although I am trying each week to incrementally raise my strength on each major exercise. I did 3 sets of chin ups with bodyweight and I privately dedicated those sets in your name before I did those. My separated shoulder is still pretty weak so I had to finish up the remaining work with cable lat pulls.

Sounds like your son will benefit greatly by lifting with you. Gaining explosive strength will just make him that much better of a football player.

 

[kopride]

I'll think I will sit this one out, but I am enjoying the discussion

My separated shoulder is still pretty weak so I had to finish up the remaining work with cable lat pulls.

Sounds like your son will benefit greatly by lifting with you. Gaining explosive strength will just make him that much better of a football player.

Can't blame us for trying to lure you in. I will PM you the video once I get a 300 DL, but I think JS (and my son) will beat me to that marker before I do.

I had the broken AC and separated shoulder about 13 years ago. For me nothing helped like dumbell lateral raises. It sounds odd, but hand stands against a wall are also great. It takes a long time to develop the muscles around the shoulder girdle to compensate for that injury. You never regain the full range of motion.

Chins . . . I like what I am hearing. All you need now is some rings.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Can't blame us for trying to lure you in. I will PM you the video once I get a 300 DL, but I think JS (and my son) will beat me to that marker before I do.

I had the broken AC and separated shoulder about 13 years ago. For me nothing helped like dumbell lateral raises. It sounds odd, but hand stands against a wall are also great. It takes a long time to develop the muscles around the shoulder girdle to compensate for that injury. You never regain the full range of motion.

Chins . . . I like what I am hearing. All you need now is some rings.

I used 30 lb db's x 8 for 3 sets side laterals with good form this morning for a few sets and then dropped down to 25 and used a more strict form seated on a bench for higher reps. Standing military press with 105 lbs x 4 reps with the olympic bar. I am a bit stuck at that weight and this morning I had more discomfort in that shoulder than normal.

Full range of motion problem for me is flat bench press. I am trying to stretch all the way to the bottom and hopefully break up some of the scar tissue, but I am weak as can be.

The chin ups yesterday wasn't too discomforting, but my shoulder would make an odd pop on occasion that was a bit distracting.

 

[Felt_Rider]

I have my sights set on a different goal (May 2009) at the moment and I will be starting first of January.

John made an earlier statement about his goals that I believe hit most of us. He implied that it is not just the target that is satisfying, but the journey going to the target goal.

My cycle group had a Christmas get together recently and we talked about the anticipated rides for 2009. One of my first goals is to perform better on 3 State 3 Mountain than I did last year, which was my first time. Now that I know what to expect I plan on concentrating on a lot of climbing starting in 2009, working on the trainer and working towards a better watts/kg. I would like to be about 10 pounds lighter before May and will change my daily nutrition intake starting in January.

As my group talked about the different rides leading up to 3 State last year to be honest it was all the training rides that overshadowed the actual target. I have a lot of good memories now riding with those guys as we trained for that and other goals in 2008. We stick together pretty good and really work well for a team of recreational guys.

 

[kopride]

My cycle group had a Christmas get together recently and we talked about the anticipated rides for 2009. One of my first goals is to perform better on 3 State 3 Mountain than I did last year, which was my first time. Now that I know what to expect I plan on concentrating on a lot of climbing starting in 2009, working on the trainer and working towards a better watts/kg. I would like to be about 10 pounds lighter before May and will change my daily nutrition intake starting in January.

As my group talked about the different rides leading up to 3 State last year to be honest it was all the training rides that overshadowed the actual target. I have a lot of good memories now riding with those guys as we trained for that and other goals in 2008. We stick together pretty good and really work well for a team of recreational guys.

NYC certainly has its share of psychiatrists so I hope JS is not offended by my armchair analysis, but the highlighted references above are a big part of what he appears to be missing. There are absolute goals, i.e. watts and the weight on the bar, but there are also relative goals, i.e. how we measure within a peer group that is important to us. I care much more about beating my riding buddies up the local hill than any numbers on my PM. Indeed, the PM is a means to that end. And I agree, the stories, mishaps, trash talk, and friendship, are all important aspects of that. Sitting on a bike in a group, makes you see the world in a different way, and there is a lot of stuff shared over those miles. IMO, that is really what cycling is about.

The internet is great, and it takes the pressure off my riding buddies from my constant ADD, but there is nothing better than looking forward to a long ride with your buddies. Its the other piece when the watts aren't improving, and you feel like ****.

Even at home, I generally lift with my son or wife, and my wife rides a spin bike frequently while I am on my trainer. I do my share of solo rides and lifts but, at the end, people are pretty social animals.

 

[jsirabella]

Can't blame us for trying to lure you in. I will PM you the video once I get a 300 DL, but I think JS (and my son) will beat me to that marker before I do.

If all goes as planned I am gaining about 1-2 pounds a week. I expect or hope to hit the 300lb deadlift sometime in Feb/March. I expect the ~200lb weight and 300lb deadlift should happen at the same time. I have also been still doing training on the bike but now pretty much exclusive the gym or CT trainer. I am doing endurance rides but also adding in one hard ride a week but now keeping an 80-85 rpm.

Come March is when I will start to try the second part of this goal of bringing the bodyfat down which mean lots of reps. This is where I will try to work on the 300 watts as the main goal but still in the 80-85 rpm. This is where the CT will really make the difference as in my testing the CT as long as I keep the 80-85 rpm it will match up with my PM.

It does feel like leg presses which brings up the totally off the wall new exercise I will start doing...you probably have heard of german (or east german ??) sets which are sets with reps of 100. I want to do leg presses with no weight on the sled in terms of minutes. I will start with 5 minutes and keep working my way up! No set speed just a nice comfortable pace.

This will all lead to hopefully the 3 goals...

1) 300lb deadlift

2) 300 watt for one hour

3) Looking the leanest, biggest and best I have ever did in my adult life...

-js

 

[jsirabella]

John made an earlier statement about his goals that I believe hit most of us. He implied that it is not just the target that is satisfying, but the journey going to the target goal.

I guess in my lifetime this has pretty much always been the case. I rememeber when I set out to make my first movie. The office nearly went into a panic. He is going to put us out of business. He never made a movie, is he nuts?

It is the same thing right now for me where next to our warehouse a space was available. I said why not open a store connected to the warehouse? Again he never opened a store, does he know what he is doing? Probably not but to me all these decisions I have made seem like logical steps from where I am. To others they seem crazy.

I am sure one day they will be right.

But today was a blast. I built a wall. I never built a wall but went to home depot got the sheet rock, the wood, nail gun, hilti and built a wall with other guys in the office. When the wall was done...the people who thought how will he build this wall was kind of mystified. Ofcourse there will always be some...does he have the proper permits even after I am done.

Those folks will never understand the fun and enjoy the journey.

I have found after I finished my first movie, it was kind of anticlamitic. It was the making of the movie for the three months that was the fun!


-js

 

[frenchyge]

This will all lead to hopefully the 3 goals...

1) 300lb deadlift

2) 300 watt for one hour

3) Looking the leanest, biggest and best I have ever did in my adult life...

-js

For some reason I just can't look away....

From your current weight to a lean, mean ~200lbs, how many pounds of lean muscle weight gain would that be?

It'll be interesting to see if you can hold your W/kg as you gain weight, as one of the stated negatives of bulking up for cyclists is the decreased mitochondrial density due to muscle growth. If we're talking significant mass gain, I would imagine your circulatory system to be outgrown by the increasing muscle mass as well. Cool experiment!

 

[jsirabella]

NYC certainly has its share of psychiatrists so I hope JS is not offended by my armchair analysis, but the highlighted references above are a big part of what he appears to be missing.

Do not worry, no offense. I am a pretty simply guy so the analysis may drive you a bit nuts and you may not always get the expected answer.

There are absolute goals, i.e. watts and the weight on the bar, but there are also relative goals, i.e. how we measure within a peer group that is important to us.

Like I said I am pretty simple but let me get a bit deep with you. I have found in my lifetime there are people who feed off of a race i.e. competition and there a people who actually perform much worse. Is it the pressure? Maybe but I think more than likely it is the personality type. When I read Zoli's or Dave's race reports you can just feel the energy coming off the proverbial screen. Races/Group rides make these guys better. Me on the other hand unfortunately make me worse. I bet if I hit 300 watts I will still not be able to perform better in competitions.

Kind of like the SATs. I had good grades in school but terrible SAT scores.

I feed off of plans, numbers and to be perfectly honest a bit of the "looking good" in terms of exercise and sports. I perform best when I am competiting against myself. Therefore the three challenges I have set up for myself are great but if I do not hit them all that is fine but I would like to do atleast 1 of the 3. In the end btw, #3 would be the most important to me.

I think you and Felt are very lucky that you have found a group of people that you can enjoy riding with and be competitive but still respect each other. Unfortunately I have not found a group of folks like that in terms of cycling and honestly even in terms of lifting.

I ride alone and I lift alone.

Probably another reason why I need exercises I can lift heavy and by myself. I think you need to be friends before you go and ride and unfortunately in building my business and given my personality I really have very few friends and none I even contact from when I was young. The few times I have tried to communicate or talk with another rider, a guy I see every morning in the gym, I get dirty looks. Zoli keeps setting me up with groups to ride with and just yesterday he wrote me wanting to ride with a new set of guys who are "like me". Nice way of saying ... "not really that good". Big chip on my shoulder, ehh? Zoli is a great guy but he tries to hard. On the few rides I went on even the slow guys gave me attitude...forget it, not worth the trouble, one of the reasons I feel in love with the PM.

Keep in mind also I was really pretty much a geek growing up, never played organized sports and when I got out of college spent all of my twenties and thirties building a business and a fat gut. Only for the last 5-6 years after breaking my ankle have I really gotten heavily into this stuff.

So as I used to ask Dave after he would send me a report, hey lots of stuff but are you happy with your results? He would than send back a basic "hell yeah" in his own type of wording. Compared to the guy of 5-6 years ago a "hell yeah" But I still have many journeys to go before I will say I am finished...I have alot to make up for all that lost time!

Even at home, I generally lift with my son or wife, and my wife rides a spin bike frequently while I am on my trainer. I do my share of solo rides and lifts but, at the end, people are pretty social animals.

You are lucky especially since you have a son you can bond with. But when I go to the gym or the bike I also enjoy the away time. It is kind of my time especially in the gym......otherwise I have the gossip girls currently. Blair finally told Chuck she loves him...big deal for me and my daughter...

Plus I got to get big soon my daughter is about to start highschool years next year and I know she will be with one of those pretty boy, really skinny, man bang, gossip girl type guys and I need to be able to pound him into the ground when I need to! Or atleast scare the **** out of him!

-js

BTW, impressed that you do squats without a rack. I would not.

 

[jsirabella]

From your current weight to a lean, mean ~200lbs, how many pounds of lean muscle weight gain would that be?

Cool experiment!

~20lbs of lean muscle mass. I have not gotten my DEXA test done yet but even with my silly scale it gives me a geneal idea and my weekly average is about 13% bf. 20lbs is tough but definitely possible in a 6 month - 1 year time frame. Right now I will let my bf get a bit higher but not above 18%.

I will need to weigh a bit more than 200lbs so when I try a get the bf down I will settle in the 190-200 range at my peak as I want the bf to be at 8-10%

-js

 

[kopride]

I ride alone and I lift alone.


BTW, impressed that you do squats without a rack. I would not.

I would keep trying to find a good group. Each group has its own personality: from the hard core "tools" who are all about themselves, to the recreational guys who are in it for social reasons, and the full gamut in between. The same is true in the gym. If you have the time, vounteering or sponsoring a charity ride will get you in contact with folks that have better attitudes.

My bench rack (Continental Systems) allows the uprights to be raised to a level where you can squat but the safety bars are really not set up for squatting. They are a little short and extend only about a foot away from the rack. having a spotter is key. Because I don't usually want to pull my bench out, unload and adjust the uprights, and then reset the safety bar, I usually just do three sets of pistols and then do deep low squats, high reps, with about 100 pounds set up on a standard bar. Wed night, my son and I used the rack for squats and had about 230 on it. I also went out yesteday and picked up 2 45s so we have plenty of weight to get to 300. I am looking into a half rack from York which should serve our needs a little better.

PS. you need to get beyond middle school. After 40, the geeks inherit the earth. Look at Bill Gates, etc. Those kids who gave wedgies in middle school are not running their own business. Most of them are lucky to have jobs with the City, are 350 disgusting pounds, and looking forward to retirement. The kids with wedgie scars are doctors, scientists, lawyers, etc. And do you remember the theatre types in HS, well they are the ones doing ok in Hollywood. And as I said before, the newer generation is different. My middle schooler plays football and world of warcraft. The divisions are not as clear with this group.

 

[jsirabella]

PS. you need to get beyond middle school.

My middle schooler plays football and world of warcraft. The divisions are not as clear with this group.

Way beyond it and you are correct that the lines of old are way gone. All lines I am happy to say including race I have seen are not there. Having grown up in a very Italian area the stereotypes of old are pretty much gone.

Today was a light day with sets of 20 and some stretching. I than decided to start to try and do leg presses in terms of minutes. That was quite tough as I could only go for about 2 minutes till my knees started to just feel like they were going to explode.

I had to stop five times but got in about 300 reps total. Maybe with knee wraps I could have better luck. The force upon the knees is the killer.

-js

 

[kopride]

Today was a light day with sets of 20 and some stretching. I than decided to start to try and do leg presses in terms of minutes. That was quite tough as I could only go for about 2 minutes till my knees started to just feel like they were going to explode.

I had to stop five times but got in about 300 reps total. Maybe with knee wraps I could have better luck. The force upon the knees is the killer.

-js

You are going in a different direction than me. For me tonight, it is 6 x (50%ORM) (one rep max) ; followed by 6 sets of 1 x 85% ORM for each exercise: squat, bench, DL, which is a total of 21 sets including warmups. It is an old power lifters workout. I usually rest about 2 minutes between sets. I will feel it on the bike though.

 

[Felt_Rider]

You are going in a different direction than me. For me tonight, it is 6 x (50%ORM) (one rep max) ; followed by 6 sets of 1 x 85% ORM for each exercise: squat, bench, DL, which is a total of 21 sets including warmups. It is an old power lifters workout. I usually rest about 2 minutes between sets. I will feel it on the bike though.

Are you riding with your buddies tomorrow?

I am going to feel mine even though I train legs with weights on Monday in order to have a few days of recovery. The trainer seems to keep everything tight so I be I will be lagging at the back again.

On Monday I did supersets between leg press, sissy squats and leg curls. I didn't have enough time to get in regular squats, but my legs are still tight today.

Tomorrow's ride leader of the group claimed the pace would be slower since she has not been on the bike in a few weeks and several have been sick, but what is said and what is done is two different things. I bet the second half will be a race to the barn with me dropping off in a ditch a few miles from the end.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Well, I don't have anything to contribute to "Strength Training at Home" but since my name was mentioned I'll throw in a few thoughts...

I do like competion, but rarely hit my best efforts on race day. Sure I get fired up in a crit but I often fall short of my regular training numbers during time trials. Sometime's it's pacing, sometimes late race focus, but I definitely understand performance anxiety.

The power meter is great for folks that are more interested in competing with themselves and not necessarily competing against others. It lets you objectively track your progress which can be an end unto itself. Still as I've said before I really think you'd enjoy time trialing. TT's basically come down to racing against yourself on your own terms trying to improve on past best times. Sure it's great when you can go faster than the other folks, but shaving a bit of time of a previous record is satisfying all by itself.

....Keep in mind also I was really pretty much a geek growing up, never played organized sports ...

That's not as unusual as you might think when it comes to cyclists. Cycling is a pretty fringe sport at least in the states and doesn't typically attract the kids that played highschool football, baseball or basketball. The vast majority of the cyclists, even racers, I know are cerebral folks and many are engineers, scientists, lawyers, doctors... IOW, kinda geeky.

That's coming from someone who's been racing bikes for several decades, is an electronics engineer, and was president of the ham radio club in highschool, talk about geek!

-Dave

 

[kopride]

Are you riding with your buddies tomorrow?

I am going to feel mine even though I train legs with weights on Monday in order to have a few days of recovery. The trainer seems to keep everything tight so I be I will be lagging at the back again.

On Monday I did supersets between leg press, sissy squats and leg curls. I didn't have enough time to get in regular squats, but my legs are still tight today.

Tomorrow's ride leader of the group claimed the pace would be slower since she has not been on the bike in a few weeks and several have been sick, but what is said and what is done is two different things. I bet the second half will be a race to the barn with me dropping off in a ditch a few miles from the end.

Weather permitting, I will be out there. We still haven't confirmed so that backouts are possible. I hear it is going to be another frostbite ride and too wet to ride off road. Any day on the bike though beats a day in work. Have a great ride this weekend.

I'm telling you Felt, we still have room on the 300/300 quest.

 

[kopride]

I do like competion, but rarely hit my best efforts on race day. Sure I get fired up in a crit but I often fall short of my regular training numbers during time trials. Sometime's it's pacing, sometimes late race focus, but I definitely understand performance anxiety.

The power meter is great for folks that are more interested in competing with themselves and not necessarily competing against others. It lets you objectively track your progress which can be an end unto itself. Still as I've said before I really think you'd enjoy time trialing. TT's basically come down to racing against yourself on your own terms trying to improve on past best times. Sure it's great when you can go faster than the other folks, but shaving a bit of time of a previous record is satisfying all by itself.
That's not as unusual as you might think when it comes to cyclists. Cycling is a pretty fringe sport at least in the states and doesn't typically attract the kids that played highschool football, baseball or basketball. The vast majority of the cyclists, even racers, I know are cerebral folks and many are engineers, scientists, lawyers, doctors... IOW, kinda geeky.

That's coming from someone who's been racing bikes for several decades, is an electronics engineer, and was president of the ham radio club in highschool, talk about geek!

-Dave

There's formal competion and informal competion. The hassle of formal races is sometimes too much for my schedule and interest but I do love group riding and the inevitable "competion" it involves. And yes, for me the PM allows me to compete against myself and track progress.

As for the "geek" factor in cycling, it is unquestionably high-- and I have noticed that it attracts a large number of folks from the "geeky professions." That being said, geekiness and sociability are not mutually exclusive. And, I learned in HS that the geeks have more fun. I was thrown of a varsity sport my senior year for conduct unbecoming a geek and was basically drafted into replacing a kid in a play (West Side Story). Despite the fact that these kids were very different than the wrestlers and jocks I spent so much energy hanging out with, I had lots of fun. In particular the geekey "theater girls" were more fun in every way than the cheerleaders I always chased. And the parties were better. Believe me, in the lifelong battle between the geeks and the jocks, the geeks turn the tide at the end of HS and usually open up a huge gap by 40.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Weather permitting, I will be out there. We still haven't confirmed so that backouts are possible. I hear it is going to be another frostbite ride and too wet to ride off road. Any day on the bike though beats a day in work. Have a great ride this weekend.

I'm telling you Felt, we still have room on the 300/300 quest.

Weather looks to be fair for us in the south. Our starting temp is supposed to be around 33 F and end somewhere near 42 F with sunny skies. Actually that is pretty frigid to most of us southerners.

We have 5 confirmed for sure.

Hope you can make it out as well.


I'm not getting in on that 300/300 quest.

 

[kopride]

was president of the ham radio club in highschool, talk about geek!

-Dave

There are some things you shouldn't admit to even among geeks.