Strength training at home

[Felt_Rider]

Excellent points on the range of motion...ego, fear and patience gets far too much in the way.

I have seen so many folks in the gym who can barely get parallel on a squat, forget about box squat. It is tough...I have to remind myself often before I go into a lift, proper form and range of motion. You need both to be successful.

To me honestly the hardest thing to really master and still alludes me a bit is muscle control. Especially true in back and chest workouts where many are using all arms and little to no back or chest. It is that little extra pull or flex of the targeted muscle group that can make all the difference.

-js

Even for me after training for over 25 years there are some exercises that I gave up. Only in the past 5 years have I found the right groove for shrugs where I can really concentrate and feel them working. Before I was doing nothing more than going through the motions and every once in while find the right motion. When you hit it you will know it. When you hit it every time you are on the right path for improvement.

Take traditional deadlifts. You are the man on deadlifts. That seems to be something you mention often so I would almost bet my paycheck you have that technique down really good. For me I have never been able to do a proper deadlift and I have had national and world class power lifters work with me on technique. Finally I gave it up because it wasn't that necessary for my competitions. I tried wide stance, close stance, sumo stance and what ever else and never could do it and get past my knees. Just one of those things for me.

 

[kopride]

I have seen so many folks in the gym who can barely get parallel on a squat, forget about box squat. It is tough...I have to remind myself often before I go into a lift, proper form and range of motion. You need both to be successful.

To me honestly the hardest thing to really master and still alludes me a bit is muscle control. Especially true in back and chest workouts where many are using all arms and little to no back or chest. It is that little extra pull or flex of the targeted muscle group that can make all the difference.

-js

For squats, you really need to start to try and do pistols.
http://www.beastskills.com/Pistol.htm

If you can master pistols, regular squats, and the idea of going down deep into the hole become much easier. You will also eliminate the strength disparity between limbs, and there is just so much more muscle control and balance involved.

Also, for muscle control, try one armed movements, or assisted negatives with one armed. I like one armed push ups. True one armed with complete balance, no Rocky BS with your legs spread wide apart and dipping your shoulders down to the side. If you concentrate on doing them step by step with perfect technique, you will learn how to recruit the appropriate exercises. And, I like assisted pull ups, pull up with two and then lower very slowly with one arm. Also, doing hand stands and static holds are great for muscle balance and control.

Seriously, check out Pavel's "Naked Warrior" or "Power to the People." They are great books on the whole science of strength, muscle control, and balance. The basic theory is that strength is a skill that needs to be practiced and developed. It all starts with good technique and practicing the technique.

Initially, pistols and these one armed movements are very humbling. But if you can learn to do them, it translates into really amazing strength gains in traditional barbell exercises.

That being said, like Felt, I have crappy deadlift technique. Stiff legs I am ok, but traditional deadlifts, are not my deal. Squats are another story. The only lifting "competion" I ever won or really participated in was this "safety squat" brag wall at my old gym "maxercise" where I worked in law school. Basically, they weighed you and put twice your body weight on a safety squat bar. My crazy boss and the gym owner (Steve Maxwell -he is still out there and about 60 years old, see link)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vak1tC3ElpU
- google him) would stand there and make sure you went paralell and smacked you hand with a metal ruler if you squeezed the rack pegs on the way up. Most number of reps was the winner. At the time, I was about 165 pounds, and I think I did 330 around 26 reps. When I arguably beat Steve by three reps (Steve disputed those reps on the grounds that I squeezed the pegs), the safety squat "brag poster" came down and he switched to a different movement where he could beat everyone else . In fairness to Steve, I was about 26 y/o and he was about 46. Since that time, he has gone hard core into Brazilain ju-jitsu and can clearly beat me to a pulp. Ironically, Steve got us all into cycling before he decided that cardio activities were a big fraud and hooked up with the Gracie Bros and got involved in BJJ.

 

[jsirabella]

I think everyone has their area of "expertise" as to they are just naturally better at. When I used to workout with someone he would always like to screw with me with pistols and balance ball exercises to put me in my place. I could cradle a up to an eighty pound dumbbell between my legs and atleast 5 chin ups out of it (this was after doing five previous sets starting with fifty pounds and working my way up) but could not do a pistol if my life depended on it. Dips I could go heavier and this week was playing with a fifty pound dumbbell but at sixty I need to drop the weight so it comes crashing to the floor and the gym does not like that...

You see I just suck at balance, flexability and stability. Honestly as far as balance goes as an adult you can not learn it. It pretty much stops at the age of 12. Now as far as stability I would really need to work on assitance exercises to build those weaker areas. Flexability I would need to do more body exercises maybe or eat the ego and go much lighter but deeper.

This is why if you put me on a normal bench I can only lift half of what I can do on lets say a Hammer press. These are really using all the same muscles just two factors for me. One is mental and the other is physical. Physical, the Hammer press gives me more stability, no worrying about the barbell and mental, I will try crazy weights because I can not hurt myself. I I can not lift who cares...will not fall and crash my rib cage...This week my last set of five had close to 3 plates on each side.

For me the point of the weights is to go heavy...so I use the exercises that let me go heavy.

Why I like the deadlift over the squat is totally mental and flexability. If I have trouble with the weight on a deadlift, who cares, drop it! Trouble with the weight on a squat...not so easy.... Also I do box squats mainly because my flexability sucks so I need a box to remind me go deeper! Actually Felt_rider, got me psyched this weekend so I dropped the Hack Squat and did good old fashion box squats on this this called a Max Rack. A great hybrid between the smith and barbell...I went up to 265lbs on my last set...a good start...

I than decided to spice up the deadlifts and did walking deadlifts...always the last exercise...to really kick my ass. I did five sets of five reps 210lbs....that was a *****. Alot like the farmers walk but I find it much worse. Lift, walk five paces back, fives paces foward, down, 1 rep, repeat.

When I mean muscle control maybe we are talking different lingo. I mean it must train the targeted area. If I do not feel the targeted area moving than I am wasting my time. Like a deadlift, unless I go heavy, the arms are basically just holding the bar tight as hell. I should not be feeling much movements in my arm muscles at all. My shoulders are rolled back becuase I am pushing all my back muscles down towards my butt, pecs are up and must look straight at mirror all the time. Than as one motion legs, hips and back all pull up at once. I sometimes will have mroe dominance in lower or upper espeically as it gets heavy.

-js

 

[kopride]

When I used to workout with someone he would always like to screw with me with pistols and balance ball exercises to put me in my place.

When I mean muscle control maybe we are talking different lingo. I mean it must train the targeted area. If I do not feel the targeted area moving than I am wasting my time. Like a deadlift, unless I go heavy, the arms are basically just holding the bar tight as hell. I should not be feeling much movements in my arm muscles at all. My shoulders are rolled back becuase I am pushing all my back muscles down towards my butt, pecs are up and must look straight at mirror all the time. Than as one motion legs, hips and back all pull up at once. I sometimes will have mroe dominance in lower or upper espeically as it gets heavy.

-js

So you must have trained with my old buddy Steve. Whenever he wasn't the best at a particular event, he would just change the game. You have to check out that Youtube link of him above lifting a concrete stone. That was so him. "Forget about the squat, the real test of manhood is to lift this stone." Of course, he had been practicing lifting it for several weeks and you had never even seen such a thing at the time he would issue his "challenge." Good times.

But I am not buying your theory, if you practice your technique and get it down, you will hit the targeted area. Felt's blog has a pretty good example where he talks about the squat. Get your technique down light within a full range of motion, and then go heavier. Strength is a skill.

What you are really saying is that "I don't want to waste valuable and scarce time in the gym working on balance, flexibility, or stability, and I would rather just focus on doing strength exercises where I can increase the load progressively." In those cases, you can ignore those factors because the movement is either machine restricted, or does not require the use of stabilizer muscles or secondary muscles to maintain balance."

Again, at the risk of being the second coming of my old friend, and encouraging people to work on skills that I have already practiced, I think you are limiting your potential. I know you like T-Nation and some other strength resources, but others like MILO that cater to the real hard core strength lifters are really pushing this core, old school, complex movements. The squat, ******, clean, press, deadlift, pull ups, push ups, and bodyweight exercises. If you can pull up and dip with 85 pounds strapped on, then you have the kind of core strength to take these other exercises to the same level. A pistol (or sissy squats) will allow you to develop the same squat strength without fear of a big weight crashing down on you. Benches are great but a clean and press is even better.

Flexibility and range of motion are huge for guys of our age. "Going heavy" is to lifting what "ride lots" is to cycling.

 

[jsirabella]

I know you like T-Nation and some other strength resources, but others like MILO that cater to the real hard core strength lifters are really pushing this core, old school, complex movements. The squat, ******, clean, press, deadlift, pull ups, push ups, and bodyweight exercises.

I will think about it as I do agree that flexability can be important. I do think though assistance exercises can make a difference. I will try a pistol on Friday and watch my ass hit the ground!

"Going heavy" is to lifting what "ride lots" is to cycling.

Them is fighting words...remember 300 deadlift and 300 watts....

BTW, I am working on a whacky silly theory of mine. As my wife would say "John the problem with you is that you are way too dangerous when you have a little bit of knowledge."

Screwball Theory ->

We always look to things in terms of watts right. While when I talk to zoli he always talks in terms of watts/kg and he always used to tell me, you really do not need as many watts as you think. Than I started to think about him, the ftp goals, my experience last year and some posts. I put it together and this is what I got.

The reason he says does not need lots of watts is because he weighs 150lbs now and less during race season!

In the equation of watts/kg, you have only two numbers you can play with. The watts and the kg and everyone I speak to from Dave to Zoli point to 4 watts/kg to be the point to start to get competitive. But lets say our goal has nothing to do with watts/kg but simply 300 watts. Lets say as Tonyzachery put pretty well, imho, that I am a light meat not dark meat kind of guy and based upon my training from last year I am only capable of producing lets say 3.3 watts/kg at my heights.

So what weight would I need to be to keep a 3.3 watts/kg at an ftp of 300 watts?

Based upon the formula about 200 lbs...

This is the number I am shooting for with my weight training but a lean 200lbs. We will see if my theory is ****. I am also starting to practice my higher watts in the 39" and an 80 rpm zone and I think it can be done.

It feels like leg presses but 300 watts is 300 watts......I did my three hour ride on sunday on the life cycle...and starting to take up a little bit the watts on my one hard day a week.

-js

My wife is the one who got the school to pay for her NYU degree while I was the schlep who paid full freight so she could go for free...But who is making the bucks now...

 

[kopride]

Based upon the formula about 200 lbs...

This is the number I am shooting for with my weight training but a lean 200lbs. We will see if my theory is ****. I am also starting to practice my higher watts in the 39" and an 80 rpm zone and I think it can be done.

JS.

You may be the only person on this planet that is more ADD than I am. In less than a few weeks, you've gone from following our fabulist Tyson up to the fabled 300 W with long intervals in the CT, to trying to keep up with the studs in CP, to breaking the local deadlift record, contemplating a run at ultra endurance marathon cycling, and now to pumping up to 200 pounds, Mini-Arnold on a bike.

I am not sure what it is that you think that you are doing wrong. By any reasonable measure, you are a very strong man for your height weight and age. By any reasonable measure, you are a very fit cyclist for a full time employed family guy with a successful business -- who is also very strong. I haven't seen your W-2, but it would not surprise me if your income was within the top 5% of the country.

I hope I don't need to remind you that Zoli is frustrated over the hill wannabe pro cyclist that doesn't have a succesful "side" career, or children, wives, that interfere with riding, etc. and who doesn't spend quality time in the gym. The man draws people's blood in the back of an anime studio? So, if Zoli, or the 23 year old grad students who do the CP ride are your cycling benchmarks, then, the problem is your ruler and not the object being measured. If, like me, your cycling buddies were other full time professionals who held down carreers, paid mortgages, and had kids, I would think that you would find that you are in the top 5% of that type of rider, and you would be thinking that you are quite swell. I hope that you are not measuring your lifting against former D1 football players that are hanging around your gym. They are probably way stronger but would not be able to even hang with the CP group for more than a mile. Again, you are probably within the top 5% of the group that includes people that lift or train regularly.

Unfortunately, you must be happy just to measure yourself against guys like me and Felt. We might be more appropriate benchmarks than Zoli. We both work full time and split our recreational time between lifting and cycling. Unlike you, Felt and I are riding regulalry with weekend warriors, not semi pros. Unless Felt is seriously underestimating his FTP, you would probably be a bit faster than him. Given his background as a former bodybuilder, odds are he might be able to out lift you provided he put some concerted effort in that for a few weeks v. cycling. I may be a bit faster than you as our respective FTPs would suggest, but you can probably outlift me in your chosen events. Felt would probably outlift me as well. If there really is a tie, then we should look to W-2s to break the tie.

But seriously, you need to find a group of like minded cyclists, i.e. weekend warrior guys with FT jobs and families, and start measuring yourself against that group. For a few hours, you ride along, BS about your problems, complain about your work, wife or kids, and the game is just being the first one up the hill. You use a guy like Zoli to make sure that you can beat those kind of buddies. Bragging rights are all that is at stake. From Felt's blog, it looks like his regular riding buddies do that kind of riding. You are more than welcome to PM me on any fiven weekend and tag along with the neurotic group of guys that I ride with in SE PA.

There is a lot more to cycling than power meters and races. And ultimately, lifting for guys like us is more about looking presentable at the beach, staying healthy, and challenging yourself. Sure, if you spend any amount of your limited time either cycling or lifting, you want to make sure that your program makes sense and that you are not wasting your time. Might as well see what the experts are doing and makes sure that your training is sound. But you seem to be harboring some sense of disappointment in yourself that you can't ride like the local Cat 3 racer and lift like the recent D1 football graduate. Get out there and see what guys like us are really doing and you will be pretty pleased.

 

[Felt_Rider]

You guys are cracking me up.
After the ride on Saturday I'm thinking about dropping my FT down to 130.

 

[frenchyge]

And this is where strength training will get you. QED.

 

[jsirabella]

So I do not know what QED means...so looked in up in wikipedia and still do not know what they hell they are talking about.

Hey they laughed at Columbus too when he said the world was round...

I need to think about something in-between lifts...the cardio bunnies are all upstairs.

-js

And this is where strength training will get you. QED.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

So I do not know what QED means...so looked in up in wikipedia and still do not know what they hell they are talking about....

Well a rough translation from Latin would be: That which was to be demonstrated...

It's SOP at the end of mathematical or philosophical proofs. You state your hypothesis, make your arguments and when you arrive at the point that proves your hypothesis you follow it with Q.E.D.

So basically it translates to: "The point has been demonstrated"

-Dave

 

[jsirabella]

You may be the only person on this planet that is more ADD than I am.

When I get stuck on something I am stuck on it...but as far as goals go...I am really stuck on the 200lbs lean and mean, 300lb deadlift and my whacky theory of 300 watts at this new body weight...I dropped all the other stuff.

I haven't seen your W-2, but it would not surprise me if your income was within the top 5% of the country.

I have to remind myself of this stuff cause my wife likes to remind me of my SAT scores when I do not understand something. I do not want to talk about my SAT scores!

So, if Zoli, or the 23 year old grad students who do the CP ride are your cycling benchmarks, then, the problem is your ruler and not the object being measured.

I kind of gave the idea of keeping up in CP with his likes. I though am stuck on this stupid number of 300 watts. Maybe as the cycling becomes a but less of my workout than it may go away but I can not see it. Therefore my personality continually keeps thinking of ways to reach it no matter how nuts!

But you seem to be harboring some sense of disappointment in yourself that you can't ride like the local Cat 3 racer and lift like the recent D1 football graduate. Get out there and see what guys like us are really doing and you will be pretty pleased.

I need my obsessions be it movie making, opening a store, writing a screenplay, it is how I live. Without it I have no reason other than my family ofcourse to get up in the morning. My counterpart is all logic and book smarts. When they say it can not be done is when I can not let it go...

Take for instance yesterday I did the 3 hour ride but I needed to eat about 5,000 calories to make my new bodybuilding goals. It would have made you sick to see the amount of clean food it took to get in that much nutrition.

-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

When I get stuck on something I am stuck on it...but as far as goals go...I am really stuck on the 200lbs lean and mean, 300lb deadlift and my whacky theory of 300 watts at this new body weight...I dropped all the other stuff.


Take for instance yesterday I did the 3 hour ride but I needed to eat about 5,000 calories to make my new bodybuilding goals. It would have made you sick to see the amount of clean food it took to get in that much nutrition.

-js

I can imagine. Was there for many years.
By the time I finished a meal it was time to start eating the next one.
People at work have always made fun of the big cooler that I bring in filled with plastic containers. I only eat about 8 smaller meals a day now.

I know I couldn't hang with you these days in the gym or on the bike.

 

[kopride]

I need my obsessions be it movie making, opening a store, writing a screenplay, it is how I live. Without it I have no reason other than my family ofcourse to get up in the morning. My counterpart is all logic and book smarts. When they say it can not be done is when I can not let it go...

I hear you and suffer from the same symptoms. But you have to learn to not let "they" control you so much. "they" talk a lot of sh*t. Proving they wrong all the time can consume a great deal of energy.

My point isn't to tell you to give up your dreams, twisted and inconsistent as those dreams may be. My dreams are no less twisted and inconsistent, and also include a healthy amount of failing to acknowledge when I have reached any reasonable semblance of achievable goals. And I am as committed to proving "they" wrong as any other bipolar ADD-suffering Type-A professional. I am only suggested that a healthy part of your cycling may involve hooking up with the local riding group or a few buddies of similar abilities and interests. Its like the golfer that finds a foursome that is competitive to his own abilities, and suddenly discovers that he likes the game and enjoys golf more. Currently, your like the guy that golfs alone and wonders why his scores aren't like Tigers. And since I hate golfing, you really caused some pain to me by making me reference golf. In fact, your like the guy that wants to golf like Tiger while simultaneously playing tennis like Sampras. While maintaining a semblance of family life and running a competitive business.

 

[jsirabella]

I hear you and suffer from the same symptoms. But you have to learn to not let "they" control you so much. "they" talk a lot of sh*t. Proving they wrong all the time can consume a great deal of energy.

The scars run too deep! My wife and daughter get a kick out of my gym and cycling endeavors. My wife and daughter can be pretty devious. Lately I get post it notes and other notes put on my bathroom mirror, my food that says stuff like "YOU LOOK BIGGER TODAY" or "FISH FOOD TASTING PROTEIN POWDER".

And since I hate golfing, you really caused some pain to me by making me reference golf. In fact, your like the guy that wants to golf like Tiger while simultaneously playing tennis like Sampras.

Golfing..if I ever reach a point in my life where golfing is my only option for a sport activity...shoot me. But on a serious note, the goals to me are not as important as the journey. I am sure all my goals may not be able to happen at the same time or never at all but like I always say you will naturally gravitate to what you are good at. If that is the 200lb, lean, 300lb deadlift guy great...if it is a 300 watt cycling guy, great also. Lets see where the path takes us!

The fun will be all the stuff in between. Cause to be honest hitting 300 watts, a 300lb deadlift or hanging on with the guys at CP will all be great for the moment or so...the journey will last much longer!

And it will never match the fun I have with my daughter watching gossip girls...yeah it is crazy but hey sports are not her thing so got to find something we can bond with. Gossip girls are her thing and last night was a blast watching it with her...family will always be important.

-js

 

[kopride]

If that is the 200lb, lean, 300lb deadlift guy great...if it is a 300 watt cycling guy, great also. Lets see where the path takes us!
-js

Alright, the gauntlet has been laid down. I think I will hit 300 watts this Spring. I just have to work on my deadlift. But there is no way I am heading anywhere near 200 pounds. My best estimate is that I can get strong enough at 175 to deadlift 300. I am assuming, no straps on the deadlift with photo evidence of the lift. And I can lift either Sumo or conventional? My son plays the O-line on his HS football team (he weighs 215 and is only a freshman) so I will make sure that I start lifting heavy with him over the next few weeks. I have never been a great deadlifter. I like the squat better, but I don't know whether I want to do those kinds of squats with the equipment I have at home. We'll see what I can do.

 

[swampy1970]

I am assuming, no straps on the deadlift with photo evidence of the lift.

Left hand holding the bar - camera in the right. Don't forget to say cheese.

 

[jsirabella]

Fair deal!

BTW, you can do any style of deadlift and even use an O-ring style bar and the weight can be a little off the floor but if you prefer squat than that is fine but it depends on the type of squat cause may have to change the weight. Box squat at parallel or below is fine probably at the 300lbs.

215 and plays O-line and only a freshman. Not bad. I guess not into cycling or pistols much...

-js

Alright, the gauntlet has been laid down. And I can lift either Sumo or conventional? My son plays the O-line on his HS football team (he weighs 215 and is only a freshman) so I will make sure that I start lifting heavy with him over the next few weeks.

 

[kopride]

Fair deal!

BTW, you can do any style of deadlift and even use an O-ring style bar and the weight can be a little off the floor but if you prefer squat than that is fine but it depends on the type of squat cause may have to change the weight. Box squat at parallel or below is fine probably at the 300lbs.

215 and plays O-line and only a freshman. Not bad. I guess not into cycling or pistols much...

-js

O ring style? What's that. Is that a deadlift bar that you stand inside and grasp with your hands in a parallel grip? My equipment is pretty basic. An olympic bar and Continiental System rack.

I will have to make a journey out to York PA to get myself a power rack if I am going to squat at all.

And, my oldest son is the exact opposite body type as me. He looks like a mini NFL Offensive Guard and has a huge frame. (His younger brother, who is a very compact wrestler calls his abs a "one pack"-- only little brothers can be so brutal). He gets it from his mom's side. Her brothers played college football and her uncle was an NFL prospect in the early 70's. They all have legs that are really like tree trunks, and his legs are the same. He is very quick off the line for a big kid. I can get him on a mt bike or a dirt bike, but he has no interest in road cycling. And pistols, he thinks I am nuts. If he stays on the lifting program that his coach lays out, then he will be an animal next fall. He's playing rugby this winter which should help get him a little leaner-- way more running and moving than american football. He actually played both sides of the line on the freshman team -- O guard and Nose Guard. He has a tremendous amount of potential if he would take nutrition and cardio seriously, but that has been an ongoing struggle over the past few years. I would rather see him be closer to 195, but I think his coach has plans to make him a more solid 225-240.

So, he will be an excellent lifting partner for this quest.

 

[jsirabella]

O ring style? What's that. Is that a deadlift bar that you stand inside and grasp with your hands in a parallel grip? My equipment is pretty basic. An olympic bar and Continiental System rack.

Yes that is the type of bar I am referring to when I say O ring style. But I have only seen it in maybe two gyms in my lifetime. It is nice because you can have more hand grip options. You can also use it like a squat with straps but is easier because of where the weight is located.

I thought you go to a local gym...I guess you are going with a home gym. Better, no waiting.

And, my oldest son is the exact opposite body type as me. He looks like a mini NFL Offensive Guard and has a huge frame. They all have legs that are really like tree trunks, and his legs are the same. I would rather see him be closer to 195, but I think his coach has plans to make him a more solid 225-240.

I have a guy I work closely with who looks like this. There are a few Italians with this kind of body type but definitely more common among Latinos. They can usually palm your head with one hand. He has huge legs and can bench or leg press a ton but can not do one pull up. That is the nature of their body type. Believe it or not he likes to ride a bike though.

The only thing you have to tell your son is to watch the knees. My friend is having trouble now that he is in his fortys and he had to loose weight or he will have a knee operation eventually.

So, he will be an excellent lifting partner for this quest.

A bonding experience...you owe me now.

-js

 

[kopride]

Yes that is the type of bar I am referring to when I say O ring style. But I have only seen it in maybe two gyms in my lifetime.

I thought you go to a local gym...I guess you are going with a home gym. Better, no waiting.

The only thing you have to tell your son is to watch the knees.

A bonding experience...you owe me now.

-js

For me, that type of bar is much easier. But all I have is an Olympic bar. My largest plates are 35s so I will buy a set of 45s so I have less room to move the weight. I need the extra weight anyway. I probably only have 275 total in Olympic plates. For squats, I can only do what I can clean, press, and put over on my shoulders, so I usually do them in "butt dragging" sets of 20 and I think total weight on that standard bar is only about 100 Hence, why I started doing pistols, and the need for the power rack. Lately, the kettlebell has allowed me to work the back much harder.

My gym rat days are long over. I belong to the local Y but weird longer work hours and young kids usually means I lift at home at night. I actually have a pretty good set up for a home gym. If I am going to go for a max lift, I probably will do it at the Y. My son will be my camera man

With football, there are a lot of delayed injuries. The former football players on my wife's side have all had surgeries when they got into their 40s. The former running backs have replaced hips. And yes, the bigger one that played D-1AA as a lineman has had knee replacements. I am not a big fan of tackle football for young kids, particularly the way my sons have played, which is Pop Warner since the age of 7. (If they play through HS, that's 11 years of hard contact while growing). It has been a historical source of conflict with their mom and her side of the family -- less so for my O-Liner where injury rsk is pretty low at that stage; and more for my younger son who is a running back. I am one of the few football dads that yells at coaches for giving my sons too much playing time. And if there is a play where he is slow getting up, I always curse myself for losing the fight over soccer v. football. And no, when I hear a HS coach encouraging a kid to eat and lift himself to 225 as a freshman, I am not pleased. You can't reason with football people. They look at you like your the crazy one if you raise questions about health or injury risk.

And yes, it is a bonding experience. If he is going to play such a stupid game, he at least should be one of the bigger stronger guys out there, so we lift and do kettlebell work together. Bench, stiff leg deadlifts, and cleans, he loves. A pull up? Dips? He looks at me like I am asking him to lick a toilet. As an aside, his freshman coach used him to demonstrate all the lifts because his technique was so good, so some of it rubbed off.